8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[arielilane]

I mean what I am about to say with the utmost sincere respect for those that have shared the events in their past. I have a different sort of input, which I think bears on this subject.

I am not now and have never been an addict. I've been on the other side twice, once in my early 20s when my father's then current wife rolled her car on the Pacific Coast Highway and nearly killed my stepsister in a drunken stupor, and currently with a former coworker who will almost certainly be dying soon as nothing really seems to work.

Please understand where I'm coming from with these remarks. I'm being honest:

1) You say you function just fine. No, you do not. You think you do, and people around you are either afraid or too tired to confront you, which is why you think nobody notices. But we notice.

2) You think nobody can tell you've been drinking because you drink vodka, which nobody can smell, and you put on perfume or cologne to cover the smell anyway. Actually, you smell like vodka and perfume or vodka and cologne.

3) You think nobody makes a big deal about it because they don't know. Actually they tear themselves apart about it because they don't know what to do to help you.

People around addicts cover for them because it's the only way they know how to live. I'm convinced that those around DS knew about her drinking, but don't want to admit it because they don't want to face the thought that they could have done more and people would be alive - whether or not they actually COULD have done anything. I know now that there's damned little you can do for an addict until they, themselves, decide to change.

I'm not sure I have a point here, and I'm not putting anyone down.

I'm no saint. I've deserved a DUI, although not for some time now, but I've never had one.

Best post! Thank you!

 

[arielilane]

Diane Schuler’s Son Is Told Of Her Death

The Long Island boy who survived the car crash that killed his mother, sister and three cousins has been told of their deaths.
http://www.longislandpress.com/2009/08/17/diane-schulers-son-is-told-of-her-death/

 

[arielilane]

Taconic Crash: Schuler’s Brother-In-Law Furious

While the families of those killed in the July 26 Taconic Parkway crash planned to meet to exchange condolences, noticeably absent will be Daniel Schuler, whose wife Diane was driving drunk and impaired by marijuana when she got on the Taconic Parkway going in the wrong direction, killing her, her daughter, three nieces and three men in another vehicle.
Warren Hance, Diane Schuler’s brother, lost his three daughters in the crash and says he is angry that his brother-in-law has denied Diane was drinking and smoking pot before the crash. The New York Post reports that Hance “wants nothing to do with Daniel Schuler.”

The family of Michael and Guy Bastardi, two of the men in the vehicle that Schuler hit head on, will meet with the Hance family to console each other in the wake of the unthinkable crash.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2009...schulers-brother-in-law-furious/#comment-2564

Nothing was mentioned regarding Daniel Longo's family. Daniel Longo was also killed by drunk driver, DS.

 

[Lexington]

There can be no words to describe what Warren H. and his wife must be going through. Their three beautiful daughters' lives wiped out in an instant by such an act of supreme selfishness and by a close family member must make the loss simply unbearable.

 

[redheadedgal]

in the previous thread we were discussing whether the kids were in seat belts... this info might address that:

last week's people magazine (w/ brangelina on the cover) had an article about the crash... one witness spoke about pulling the kids out of the smoking vehicle ("they weren't moving... they weren't breathing... they looked like angels" ~ paraphrased by me). he said he also pulled a "mangled" DS out too...

 

[CatMama3]

I posted what I posted

I only meant if your experience was as an addict or dealing with an addict. The two experiences are very different.

For example, I am not an addict, but I've dealt with addicts. Several active, one recovering and one on a dry drunk. The active ones behaved in ways I couldn't tolerate, the recovering one helped me understand why the active ones acted that way, and the dry drunk made me see exactly how an addict's mindset can work.

I am sorry for what your son has had to endure. Aside from the social and medical issues (re his driver's license, the treatments you've tried, the treatments that failed, the anxiety it must cause you both), the toll a seizure disorder takes on a person and his loved ones is horrendous.

FWIW, I may not post alot, but I read/lurk and I'm aware of what you've posted about your son and the awful toll his seizures have taken on you both.

 

[Only4Justice]

There can be no words to describe what Warren H. and his wife must be going through. Their three beautiful daughters' lives wiped out in an instant by such an act of supreme selfishness and by a close family member must make the loss simply unbearable.

I can't stop thinking about this accident.......for obvious reasons, and also personal ones.

I don't think ANY marriage can survive this. If it was me, I really think I'd have to end my marriage....to the man whose sister killed all my kids.

I hope they have a strong marriage. May God give them mercy. :blowkiss:

 

[Joanie]

My dad was an alcoholic, and many times he drove drunk. We didn't wear seat belts.. the 64 Chevy didn't have back seat belts. We are lucky that he never crashed.
My dad could quit for weeks, or months, if he wanted to. We left him many times... sometimes requiring a police escort out of the house, when he was violent... and he would restrain from drinking as long as it took to get us back. Then he would slide again.

The cravings *can* be overcome, at least for those people with the will power to do it. Some people get cravings worse than others, and some people have fewer reasons or less willpower or some other factor... overwhelming stress, maybe...but if they *want* to, deep inside, they can change. It doesn't work to *want* to not have diabetes, you can't willpower away heart disease, you have to get at the root of the problem and cure it there.
As for addictions being a disease, comparing drinking to having a heart attack on the road is apples to pumpkins.

I hope that I am not speaking in such a way that it upsets others, but after a childhood spent with a drunken, violent, selfish man, I promised myself that I wouldn't keep the secret any longer. I would never again go out with a cut lip and lie about why it happened. I would never make up stories about why I couldn't bring friends home. And I won't stop saying that if you love your family enough, if you care about other people enough, and if you work at it every minute of every day, you don't *have* to drink. You only have to care more about others than you do about yourself.

/down from the soapbox

 

[Only4Justice]

He didn't kill anyone - why would you do that?

Hi !

It's difficult for any marriage to survive the loss of one children, much less all three. (I have personal experience with the toll losing a child can take on a marriage). If the marriage was very strong before this terrifying accident, then it may survive.

BUT their entire lives have been irreparably altered. Everything they thought they would live through in the future with their girls, watching them growing up, talking about how proud you are of their accomplishments.....etc., that is all gone.

They will have to reach a new place and it will be a different marriage. My prayers are with them.

:blowkiss:

 

[southcitymom]

I suspect some addicts can stop using through their own power of will and good for them if that works, but I have used drugs and alcohol against my will so many times I've lost count! Willpower doesn't work for many of us, so I am glad there are other ways.

My lengthy periods of clean time have also had nothing to do with personal willpower.

I completely agree that selfishness is at the core of addiction. Of course, it's also at the core of being human, so it's not necessarily selfishness that separates addicts from non-addicts.

As for the Hance's marriage, I think losing a child or children throws any marriage into extreme crisis regardless of the circumstance of loss. It seems from things I have read that Hance's wife was extremely close with his Diane, so I can only imagine all the levels of pain and betrayal she must be feeling. They are both in my highest prayers.

 

[Joanie]

Southcitymom, I respect what you say, because you have experiences from the inside that I don't have. I only know what I saw... my dad could stop drinking when he had to. Maybe he was unusual in that. But in order to drink, smoke, or do drugs, the addict has to act proactively... they need to buy or steal the substance. They have to hide it. These are all with the intention of using it later. No one makes them buy it, no one makes them shoot it up. Their friends and family may have tried to make it harder for them to get it. They have to change their behavior, and make excuses for what they are doing. Regular diseases are not like that. The disease may be a consequence of bad habits... heart disease may be a reflection of bad eating and exercise with many people... but the disease is caused by the action, not the other way around. Heart disease doesn't make you eat bad. See what I mean?

All addicts can check themselves into a clinic or get help in multiple ways. That act of willpower can help them. But they *choose* between going to get help, and going to get more vodka.

I'll be quiet now, because I don't want to get in trouble... but as the child of a drunk, it's important for my own healing to speak firmly where I once had to sit quietly. Children have no power, they can only internalize the problems. Please, anyone who has an addiction problem... turn the car toward the clinic instead of the liquor store. Love your children that much.

 

[redheadedgal]

I suspect some addicts can stop using through their own power of will and good for them if that works, but I have used drugs and alcohol against my will so many times I've lost count! Willpower doesn't work for many of us, so I am glad there are other ways.

hi scm. i too thank you for your openness on this topic and i was wondering if you would elaborate on this b/c my mind is going through possibilities of how someone could use drugs or alcohol against their will... all i'm coming up with are scenarios where someone is being held down and injected with a drug when screaming "NO! NO!" or when a funnel is shoved in and held firmly in someone's mouth and booze is poured down it while they are restrained... i guess i just don't understand how when someone 1) buys the booze/gets it from another person, 2) pours it into a glass/accepts the glass from another person, 3) picks up the glass and raises it to their mouth and 4) swallows it - how that is against one's will? to my knowledge, one has to make their body do these actions... what am i missing?

thanks.

 

[RJA00]

I suspect some addicts can stop using through their own power of will and good for them if that works, but I have used drugs and alcohol against my will so many times I've lost count! Willpower doesn't work for many of us, so I am glad there are other ways.

My lengthy periods of clean time have also had nothing to do with personal willpower.

I completely agree that selfishness is at the core of addiction. Of course, it's also at the core of being human, so it's not necessarily selfishness that separates addicts from non-addicts.

As for the Hance's marriage, I think losing a child or children throws any marriage into extreme crisis regardless of the circumstance of loss. It seems from things I have read that Hance's wife was extremely close with his Diane, so I can only imagine all the levels of pain and betrayal she must be feeling. They are both in my highest prayers.

I know one that did, my father. is drinking was getting worse
my mom words to him... The bottle or me and the girls

that was, lets see i think i was about 5 so about 35 years ago he has never touched the bottle again, no rehab or anything, and i belive he was alcoholic. they called him the weekend alchoholic becouse he never missed a day of work

us kids knew when mom said somthing that was final and she was not going to change her mind, and i guess dad knew too.

 

[mostlylurking]

Being a child of an alcoholic, the step child of another, the wife of 2 (1 not sober, 1 after finding sobriety) and being an alcoholic myself who started at 12 years old...... I can't explain addiction in a fashion very well -- but I'll share my experience......

It is an allergy of the body, and an obsession of the mind.
When the allergy is triggered or active, it is nearly impossible to control by willpower alone. It's like having an out of body experience watching yourself drink or drug when you don't want to and you can't stop yourself from reaching for what you know could kill you or has killed others and you've seen it.

Then the remorse of "yet again failing yourself and others" leads to the obsession of not being able to cope with you in your own skin or even being looked at or seen by the ones you love & who love you. The obsession to do something to make that feeling of being a pathetic excuse of a human being creeps in and digs deeper day by day. Nothing makes it go away and for a brief moment the idea of numbing yourself with a drink or a drug seems better 'cause at least then you'll get to forget how horribly you feel for a few minutes or a couple of hours. Problem is you wake up with yourself again & you've let everyone down again and there you are -- not able to live and not able to die.

Today, by finding something spiritual to fill the hole inside of me instead of booze or pot, I have a daily reprieve from the desire to get tanked. That is totally based on my spiritual condition on any given day. Thankfully, I have had a string of days which have kept me clean and sober for over 14 years. However, until I was totally and completely at my emotional and spiritual bottom, I did not have the ability to walk away from what was put in front of me. Given what I knew about how I was raised & my marriage then, I should have had the desire and willpower to walk away from putting the same chemicals in me which produced the drunks and addicts in my life which has caused so much pain. I could not.

Today, the allergy of the body is not triggered in me. If I were to pick up a drink though, my body would physically react as though it had never put down the drink or drug 14 years ago. Emotionally, I'd be lost and I don't think I have another recovery in me.

No, alcoholism/addiction is not a disease the same way heart disease or cancer are -- or anything that affects a person physically but not emotionally. It's worse. It is something that so many people in the world think a person should be able to control, and they can't. For the others, there are specific medicines or procedures available which can treat or cure the symptoms of the disease --- and the repercussions of them are typically only physical .

Alcoholism/addiction affects every single cell of a person's body. It affects them physically, emotionally, mentally -- in every way shape and form. Admitting they have a problem brings judgement from everyone they know. Not admitting it brings it too, in a different way. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. And for those of us who live with it in others, every single feeling is just the same -- only we don't pick up the chemical to numb ourselves to it -- so we get to live with the obsession of how the alcoholic/addict in our lives is totally effing up his/her life and we know there is not a damn thing we can do to help them or stop them -- and if we do try to take action, we may risk them going to drink or drug over our giving a crap about them.

Yep -- I've been there on both sides. I've even had to go pick up a drunk from jail after driving the wrong way on highway 44 out of St. Louis. Thank God no one was hurt. That person ended up in another car accident (single car) and in a coma before being sentenced for the wrong way driving on a major highway. He couldn't not pick up.

I feel for all in this situation.

 

[Wonder]

You said "I can't explain addiction in a fashion very well" --- yes explained it perfectly

 

[Wonder]

I meant to say "YOU said it perfectly" (Sorry, I got distracted and pushed the send key before I proofed it!!)

 

[southcitymom]

Southcitymom, I respect what you say, because you have experiences from the inside that I don't have. I only know what I saw... my dad could stop drinking when he had to. Maybe he was unusual in that. But in order to drink, smoke, or do drugs, the addict has to act proactively... they need to buy or steal the substance. They have to hide it. These are all with the intention of using it later. No one makes them buy it, no one makes them shoot it up. Their friends and family may have tried to make it harder for them to get it. They have to change their behavior, and make excuses for what they are doing. Regular diseases are not like that. The disease may be a consequence of bad habits... heart disease may be a reflection of bad eating and exercise with many people... but the disease is caused by the action, not the other way around. Heart disease doesn't make you eat bad. See what I mean?

All addicts can check themselves into a clinic or get help in multiple ways. That act of willpower can help them. But they *choose* between going to get help, and going to get more vodka.

I'll be quiet now, because I don't want to get in trouble... but as the child of a drunk, it's important for my own healing to speak firmly where I once had to sit quietly. Children have no power, they can only internalize the problems. Please, anyone who has an addiction problem... turn the car toward the clinic instead of the liquor store. Love your children that much.

Please know that I respect what you had to say and take no umbrage with your post. I am the child of an alcoholic father and I'll bet we have had very similar emotional paths with all that. I know how important it is to start speaking the truth about all those things we children of alcoholics internalize - I would never begrudge you that! :blowkiss:

I mean it when I say I appreciate every single thing that has been shared about addiction on this thread. We all have different experiences with it and they all matter.

I'm a little fried from spending all day at a water park with four nine-year-old boys, so please forgive me if what I try to explain next sounds muddled and ineloquent.

I probably can't properly explain "using against my will" to someone who hasn't had that experience. But I will try. Addicts will understand it immediately and organically. Prior to getting clean, I cannot tell you how many times I tried to stop using by simply relying on my own willpower, which frankly is formidable. Never in my life had I NOT been able to do or not do something that I set my mind to. Never. Yet, over and over again, I tried to stop using and I made promises that I would stop using and I was never able to stop using.

The place that this inability to stop using no matter how hard I tried or how much I wanted to led me was this: I accepted that I was an addict and that I would always be an addict and that stopping was impossible and that there was no other way for me to live and so all my energy was consumed with managing my addiction. Managing addiction is exhausting and dangerous and miserable because addiction is progressive, incurable and fatal.

Left to my own devices and desires, I use drugs.

Some addicts can stop using through their own willpower, and some addicts can stop using by going to church and being cured by Jesus, and some addicts can stop using by channeling their addictive nature into healthy things like exercise, and some addicts can stop using by going into weekly psychotherapy, and some addicts can stop using by going on a regime of beneficial medications that manage underlying psychiatric issues, etc....etc....

Those things I mentioned above (plus many other things I tried but didn't mention specifically) never helped me stop using. I was only able to stop using through recovery based in a 12-step program and I have proven, more than once, that if I don't stay connected to recovery within such a fellowship, I start using again - no matter how good my life is, no matter how much I love my husband, my children, my job, etc....If entered into willingly and investigated with an open mind, 12-step recovery can gently allow for a complete healing physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually from addiction.

My way is just what has worked for me and some others. It is not THE way, just a way.

As to whether or not addiction is a disease.....you know, I personally don't care if it is or it isn't - the "truth" of addiction as a disease is meaningless to me. Medical communities treat it as a disease, my fellowship treats it as a disease and it has worked for me to treat it as a disease. I'm just kooky enough to not give a damn whether or not something is true if it allows me to live a better life! :crazy:

I don't know if I've made a lick of sense here, but thanks for listening! Would any of what I have said resonated with Diane Shuler? I do not know.

 

[southcitymom]

Being a child of an alcoholic, the step child of another, the wife of 2 (1 not sober, 1 after finding sobriety) and being an alcoholic myself who started at 12 years old...... I can't explain addiction in a fashion very well -- but I'll share my experience......

It is an allergy of the body, and an obsession of the mind.
When the allergy is triggered or active, it is nearly impossible to control by willpower alone. It's like having an out of body experience watching yourself drink or drug when you don't want to and you can't stop yourself from reaching for what you know could kill you or has killed others and you've seen it.

Then the remorse of "yet again failing yourself and others" leads to the obsession of not being able to cope with you in your own skin or even being looked at or seen by the ones you love & who love you. The obsession to do something to make that feeling of being a pathetic excuse of a human being creeps in and digs deeper day by day. Nothing makes it go away and for a brief moment the idea of numbing yourself with a drink or a drug seems better 'cause at least then you'll get to forget how horribly you feel for a few minutes or a couple of hours. Problem is you wake up with yourself again & you've let everyone down again and there you are -- not able to live and not able to die.

Today, by finding something spiritual to fill the hole inside of me instead of booze or pot, I have a daily reprieve from the desire to get tanked. That is totally based on my spiritual condition on any given day. Thankfully, I have had a string of days which have kept me clean and sober for over 14 years. However, until I was totally and completely at my emotional and spiritual bottom, I did not have the ability to walk away from what was put in front of me. Given what I knew about how I was raised & my marriage then, I should have had the desire and willpower to walk away from putting the same chemicals in me which produced the drunks and addicts in my life which has caused so much pain. I could not.

Today, the allergy of the body is not triggered in me. If I were to pick up a drink though, my body would physically react as though it had never put down the drink or drug 14 years ago. Emotionally, I'd be lost and I don't think I have another recovery in me.

No, alcoholism/addiction is not a disease the same way heart disease or cancer are -- or anything that affects a person physically but not emotionally. It's worse. It is something that so many people in the world think a person should be able to control, and they can't. For the others, there are specific medicines or procedures available which can treat or cure the symptoms of the disease --- and the repercussions of them are typically only physical .

Alcoholism/addiction affects every single cell of a person's body. It affects them physically, emotionally, mentally -- in every way shape and form. Admitting they have a problem brings judgement from everyone they know. Not admitting it brings it too, in a different way. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. And for those of us who live with it in others, every single feeling is just the same -- only we don't pick up the chemical to numb ourselves to it -- so we get to live with the obsession of how the alcoholic/addict in our lives is totally effing up his/her life and we know there is not a damn thing we can do to help them or stop them -- and if we do try to take action, we may risk them going to drink or drug over our giving a crap about them.

Yep -- I've been there on both sides. I've even had to go pick up a drunk from jail after driving the wrong way on highway 44 out of St. Louis. Thank God no one was hurt. That person ended up in another car accident (single car) and in a coma before being sentenced for the wrong way driving on a major highway. He couldn't not pick up.

I feel for all in this situation.

Hey friend! :blowkiss:

This is an awesome post! I feel every piece!

 

[azwriter]

Being a child of an alcoholic, the step child of another, the wife of 2 (1 not sober, 1 after finding sobriety) and being an alcoholic myself who started at 12 years old...... I can't explain addiction in a fashion very well -- but I'll share my experience......
(snipped for space)

A beautiful post that touched my heart and mind. Thanks for sharing mostlylurking.

 

[Dryad]

Just a sad side note...my daughter and I were driving past a fire station with a marquee sign that said "Seat Belts Save Lives" and I said to her "Not if your own mother is drunk and high while driving". It just made me incredibly sad that those innocent children didn't even have a chance.