8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[bondobbs]

All good points. But I think Diane was drunk enough, she might have set her phone down and almost instantly forgot it was there. (Does someone want to refresh my memory? Was the phone ever found? If so, where?)

The phone was found on top of the concrete abutment in the emergency lane off the Tappan Zee bridge on the Eastern side of the bridge. Diane must have just gone through the toll booth. If she was THAT drunk at that time, it would seem like a toll collector would have noticed. Although I think she used easy pass to go through the booth. If that was the case, she would have had to have crossed about 4-5 lanes of traffic (at least 2, which are cash lanes) to get to the side there. The side where she stopped is about 40 yards from the Tarrytown exit. It's right over on the right there. The thruway continues on the left. The next exit is the Saw Mill and it's kind of a tricky entrance if you're going south. Of course she ended up North of there on the Taconic. I suppose she must have gone north on the saw mill. It's winding and narrow, but the entrance north is a bit easier to navigate than the entrance to the south (the south entrance you have to make a full stop and merge into traffic that is coming out from under a bridge. It's tricky even when you're stone cold sober).

If she went north on the saw mill she was going in the wrong direction from her home, which is on long island. She should have continued on I-87 towards the bridges (Whitestone, Throg's Neck) on the east side over there. I will fully admit that the road system of parkways in NY are confusing and difficult to master. When my parents visit me (from the south), they can't believe how winding and narrow they are. And the signage stinks. I suppose she got confused.

So, going north on the saw mill would take her back toward I-87 and if she was going to long island, she should have gotten back on I-87 going east, away from the Tappan Zee. The entrance to the Taconic is just north of that exit. She would have had to have gone up the Taconic in the right direction, gotten off and turned around, going south in the northbound lane.

 

[bondobbs]

The phone was found on top of the concrete abutment in the emergency lane off the Tappan Zee bridge on the Eastern side of the bridge.

Another quick thing, if I can be so presumptuous as to quote myself... The phone was left there right after she had the conversation with her brother and her niece told her dad "there's something wrong with aunt diane". The contents of that phone call (which are unknown), led me to the theory about her anger and (and possible) suicidal ideation.

 

[rpd113]

I think Diane was drunk enough, she might have set her phone down and almost instantly forgot it was there.

That's quite possible, yeah, and there are other factors that don't fit my theory. I should have said "taken together," the things I listed convey determination to me.

 

[Nova]

The phone was found on top of the concrete abutment in the emergency lane off the Tappan Zee bridge on the Eastern side of the bridge. Diane must have just gone through the toll booth. If she was THAT drunk at that time, it would seem like a toll collector would have noticed. Although I think she used easy pass to go through the booth. If that was the case, she would have had to have crossed about 4-5 lanes of traffic (at least 2, which are cash lanes) to get to the side there. The side where she stopped is about 40 yards from the Tarrytown exit. It's right over on the right there. The thruway continues on the left. The next exit is the Saw Mill and it's kind of a tricky entrance if you're going south. Of course she ended up North of there on the Taconic. I suppose she must have gone north on the saw mill. It's winding and narrow, but the entrance north is a bit easier to navigate than the entrance to the south (the south entrance you have to make a full stop and merge into traffic that is coming out from under a bridge. It's tricky even when you're stone cold sober).

If she went north on the saw mill she was going in the wrong direction from her home, which is on long island. She should have continued on I-87 towards the bridges (Whitestone, Throg's Neck) on the east side over there. I will fully admit that the road system of parkways in NY are confusing and difficult to master. When my parents visit me (from the south), they can't believe how winding and narrow they are. And the signage stinks. I suppose she got confused.

So, going north on the saw mill would take her back toward I-87 and if she was going to long island, she should have gotten back on I-87 going east, away from the Tappan Zee. The entrance to the Taconic is just north of that exit. She would have had to have gone up the Taconic in the right direction, gotten off and turned around, going south in the northbound lane.

I lived in NYC for 8 years in the 70s and 80s and used those freeways on occasion for trips out of town. I found them very confusing and I was stone-cold sober.

The reason I asked about the phone was that I was wondering whether it was found where Diane could have set it down and forgotten it, or whether it appeared she had flung it somewhere (the bushes, the middle of traffic, etc.) to conceal it. It sounds like she just set it down and may have forgotten it in her drunken stupor.

 

[Nova]

That's quite possible, yeah, and there are other factors that don't fit my theory. I should have said "taken together," the things I listed convey determination to me.

I am the first to agree there is no "perfect theory" that explains every piece of evidence. I don't suppose there ever will be.

 

[Davereid]

I guess no one can ever tell what is really going on in someone's head to explain the decisions they make. I think the reason people are still thinking and talking about this case is the mystery of why someone would leave some place sober and in the process of what should have been a 45 minutes to one hour drive get drunk and high. Why not drop the kids off and get drunk at home? I find it hard to believe it was murder.
I do think this though, her husband can be a jerk and a liar and was likely emotionally abusive. If she had an issue with drugs and alcohol he may not have noticed.
No one really knows what goes on in families because there are always elements people are embarrassed to admit. So she might have used at night when she was alone and people either chose to ignore the signs or she was great at hiding them. I think there was a fight or something before she left. I think she thought she could handle the alcohol because she had been self-medicating for a while. However, the setting a person is in greatly affects the intoxication they have. I think she drank the vodka and decided to smoke some weed. Marijuana can really intensify a buzz and if she had bought some new stash the potency could have been more than she was used to. This is when she called her brother when she knew she was really messed up. However, the nature of intoxication is poor decision making so I think she thought she was okay to get the kids home. It was a horrible decision and she made the wrong turn and could not figure out what to do from there or maybe did not even know what she was doing.
I do not agree with her husband suing the state of NY or the Hance family. Actually, know one should have sued. The guilty party is dead. The husband was not in the car.
This was a horrible case but as some people have pointed out-maybe there is an issue with people turning the wrong way on this parkway. The youtube video does highlight the fact the exit ramp is long and only has a few signs.
I thought about the documentary for long time and still do. I just cannot fathom what was going on in her mind but this is the only thing I have found to be a good explanation. I guess her motivation could have been darker but I am just not sure.

 

[SwampMama]

No matter how much time has gone by, this case is still so haunting and frustrating because there will be no answers. Tragically, Diane did the one thing she vowed never to do and that was to leave her child without a mother.

 

[Fairy1]

We just had a double fatal accident here in Vegas last week due to a wrong-way driver. No word yet on toxicology. There was only one driver in each vehicle - both of which caught fire, but it caused 3 other accidents.

 

[bondobbs]

I guess no one can ever tell what is really going on in someone's head to explain the decisions they make. I think the reason people are still thinking and talking about this case is the mystery of why someone would leave some place sober and in the process of what should have been a 45 minutes to one hour drive get drunk and high. Why not drop the kids off and get drunk at home? I find it hard to believe it was murder.

She lived on Long Island. It would have been impossible for her to drop the kids off at home as she was upstate that morning.

I drove that stretch of highways this weekend. I was struck with the fact that when I went through the toll booths on the Tappan Zee Bridge (where she took the call from her brother and set her phone down), the signage is actually rather good right there. If she had gotten off at Tarrytown (which is the first exit on the right), there is no way she would have died. She must have gone north on the saw mill and then up the taconic and then back down the taconic. The thing is: the north exit on the saw mill is very steep and turns all the way around. It goes down under the highway and back up steeply to the north bound lanes. If she was plastered, I'm surprised she was able to navigate that without crashing.

I'm still struck that the kids would have probably been screaming at her, right? I have a 9 yr old and she would have known that they were going the wrong way. I don't know how Diane was able to drive or do anything if the kids were screaming at her to stop.

 

[bondobbs]

I google mapped the route that she should have taken home, just to see how long it should have taken her and the timing of the whole thing. The approximate length of the journey from Parksville to Floral Park is about 120 miles. Google maps estimates the time of the journey to be 2 hours, 17 minutes. She started out at 9:30 AM, but she stopped several times along the way - McDonald's, the gas station, the rest areas. She spoke with her brother on the phone at 1:02PM and supposedly, they spoke for 9 mins (not sure if I have that right). So, she was 3 1/2 hours into a trip that was supposed to have taken 2 hours and 17 minutes. I don't think it was traffic, because it was on Sunday that this occurred. Another thing is... she was only about 2/3 way in those 3 1/2 hours. The accident occurred near Pleasantville/Briarcliff Manor. What was she doing for the 2 hours that are unaccounted for? It makes little sense that she covered only about 85 miles in 3 1/2 hours, does it? Was she pulling off the road to take a toke? She was going an average of only 25 miles per hour all told. I'm not familiar with route 17 so maybe that is a congested one lane in each direction kind of road.

 

[zippitydoda]

I google mapped the route that she should have taken home, just to see how long it should have taken her and the timing of the whole thing. The approximate length of the journey from Parksville to Floral Park is about 120 miles. Google maps estimates the time of the journey to be 2 hours, 17 minutes. She started out at 9:30 AM, but she stopped several times along the way - McDonald's, the gas station, the rest areas. She spoke with her brother on the phone at 1:02PM and supposedly, they spoke for 9 mins (not sure if I have that right). So, she was 3 1/2 hours into a trip that was supposed to have taken 2 hours and 17 minutes. I don't think it was traffic, because it was on Sunday that this occurred. Another thing is... she was only about 2/3 way in those 3 1/2 hours. The accident occurred near Pleasantville/Briarcliff Manor. What was she doing for the 2 hours that are unaccounted for? It makes little sense that she covered only about 85 miles in 3 1/2 hours, does it? Was she pulling off the road to take a toke? She was going an average of only 25 miles per hour all told. I'm not familiar with route 17 so maybe that is a congested one lane in each direction kind of road.

It might make sense if she never intended to go home ever again.

And we now know that is exactly what happend.

 

[Nova]

It might make sense if she never intended to go home ever again.

And we now know that is exactly what happend.

If you think this was a murder/suicide, what do you believe to be the motivation. (I'm sorry to ask because I'm sure you have said before.)

I know parents often take their own children with them when they commit suicide. (See Josh Powell.) But how many kill their nieces, too? Why?

And why didn't she swerve into oncoming traffic during her final minutes? In fact she honked her horn to ward off such traffic. Why continue in one lane and hope that somebody would come along and fail to change lanes?

 

[zippitydoda]

Hi Nova,

I have no idea what her motivation was... people, even good people, do very bad things that effect innocent people, and we have difficulty finding a reason as to why. Even if someone who knew the truth said - "she did it because", it still would make no sense - because there could never be a valid reason(s) for what happened here.

Sometimes people just snap, and do things that on another day they would never do. I think she was a troubled woman who could not see past that time in her life, and did the unthinkable.

For me, the children are what what make this horrific story so sad - these babies, how could she do this to them? How could she even think of it? But its what she did.

How/why she did not swerve into traffic? I think driving on that road the wrong way started it and she wanted someone else to end it.

People start trouble with the police and push it so far that it ends with the police shooting them, suicide by cop I think they call it. It happens.

ETA: Could it be that its so hard to believe that a mother could do this that we must look for some other explaination? Just because we don't think they "look" like a bad mother or had things occur in their past that we can say - there...thats it, thats why.

 

[Nova]

zip, I think even the craziest person does things for a reason. S/he simply has a crazy reason, not no reason at all. But I'll grant you that the fact we don't know the reason doesn't prove she didn't have one.

Good point about people walking up to the edge of suicide and then waiting for someone else to pull the trigger. That doesn't entirely explain the reports of Diane honking and flashing her lights to ward off oncoming traffic, but maybe she was losing her nerve.

I am not at all one to suggest that women are less capable of violence than men. I think such an attitude is condescending to all females. I'm more puzzled by the facts of the case, not that the perpetrator was a woman.

 

[zippitydoda]

zip, I think even the craziest person does things for a reason. S/he simply has a crazy reason, not no reason at all. But I'll grant you that the fact we don't know the reason doesn't prove she didn't have one.

Good point about people walking up to the edge of suicide and then waiting for someone else to pull the trigger. That doesn't entirely explain the reports of Diane honking and flashing her lights to ward off oncoming traffic, but maybe she was losing her nerve.

I am not at all one to suggest that women are less capable of violence than men.. I think such an attitude is condescending to all females. I'm more puzzled by the facts of the case, not that the perpetrator was a woman.

BBM - Sit next to me Nova, because we agree on that.

But, I'll give an example, a few months ago, a father threw his young daughter over a bridge to her death - he was called every name in the book and not one poster that I recall found a need to come to some understanding as to why he did it - IMO, it was just understood that he was a bad man in that moment, and that this was a deliberate act. Here we have a story of a mother who drove drunk and stoned over the course of hours, never asked for help or stopped, then entered the highway the wrong way and ultimately killed herself, 3 children and three others - but some people have suggested that she never meant any harm, and that there must be something else to it. See how that works?



p.s. I hit 1000 post with my reponse to you... yippee.

 

[Nova]

BBM - Sit next to me Nova, because we agree on that.

But, I'll give an example, a few months ago, a father threw his young daughter over a bridge to her death - he was called every name in the book and not one poster that I recall found a need to come to some understanding as to why he did it - IMO, it was just understood that he was a bad man in that moment, and that this was a deliberate act. Here we have a story of a mother who drove drunk and stoned over the course of hours, never asked for help or stopped, then entered the highway the wrong way and ultimately killed herself, 3 children and three others - but some people have suggested that she never meant any harm, and that there must be something else to it. See how that works?



p.s. I hit 1000 post with my reponse to you... yippee.

I'm honored to share your anniversary post, zip. Congratulations!

I promise you, I would be just as interested in the motive of the father who threw his kid off the bridge. I am ALWAYS interested in why people do evil things. I don't believe in "evil" as an independent force wafting through the universe, but there's no denying "the evil that men do". I'm always interested in why.

I think Diane fascinates us not just because she's female, but because she took not only her own kids but her brother's as well. (If she had pulled the same stunt with just her own children, we might be tempted to conclude she was exacting revenge on their father.)

And, as I said, I find her method ambiguous. I'm not sure whether she intended to die or was just too impaired and too stubborn to admit she was going the wrong way.

 

[bondobbs]

I'm honored to share your anniversary post, zip. Congratulations!

I promise you, I would be just as interested in the motive of the father who threw his kid off the bridge. I am ALWAYS interested in why people do evil things. I don't believe in "evil" as an independent force wafting through the universe, but there's no denying "the evil that men do". I'm always interested in why.

I think Diane fascinates us not just because she's female, but because she took not only her own kids but her brother's as well. (If she had pulled the same stunt with just her own children, we might be tempted to conclude she was exacting revenge on their father.)

And, as I said, I find her method ambiguous. I'm not sure whether she intended to die or was just too impaired and too stubborn to admit she was going the wrong way.

Earlier on this board I suggested Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). The thing is in Europe they call this emotionally unstable personality disorder and in China they call it impulsive personality disorder. My wife, who previously had the symptoms and was diagnosed but now has fallen below the criteria, once flew to Europe on a whim, with no luggage or anything. She did it because she was angry with me and felt she "deserved" it. These people can do wildly impulsive things. If Diane was in that spectrum (and the doc suggests she was), she could have done something completely impulsively and add the alcohol and pot, that could fuel a more impulsive decision.

 

[Nova]

Well put, bondobbs. That does make a lot of sense!

 

[nosysw]

:wagon:

Welcome, Davereid! ::goodpost:

Very well thought out and makes good sense. Thanks!

 

[Davereid]

No matter how much time has gone by, this case is still so haunting and frustrating because there will be no answers. Tragically, Diane did the one thing she vowed never to do and that was to leave her child without a mother.

I think when we hear about cases such as the awful case you referenced that included a former student we immediately try to explain it by saying the person must have been insane. Thomas Szasz was a psychiatrist who had a totally different view of insanity from the mental health field. His basic thought was a large percentage of behaviors we label as "insane" are really just problem coping behaviors. People who do not know how to deal with the stress of everyday life act out in ways that are hostile and destructive. Michael Hayes was a guy who went out in the middle of the road in 1989 and started shooting at passing cars in North Carolina. He killed four people. This happened a few miles from where I lived. He got off "not guilty by reason of insanity". The victim's families fought for years to make sure he stayed in the mental institution but he was released within the past two years. He was a drug user and claimed he thought he was shooting a demons. I think he should have went to jail after he was healed mentally.
My point is sometimes behaviors are so horrible we cannot imagine a normal, sane, person would commit them. So we choose to believe they are crazy. They are not normal and their behavior is horrible but in a lot of cases they are sane. Sadly, Diane Schuler was likely sane as well and dealt with her life stress or unresolved issues in a terrible way. If she had lived I bet she would be pleading insanity. I always wondered on the documentary if they showed pictures of her body to gain some sympathy. I felt really bad for little Erin because no one really ever said anything about her. She seemed to be lost in the whole mess. I went and wrote something on her find a grave.