8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[VCDaedalus]

It's possible that the very first test they do is an ETOH. Once they found that, they would check for the most common other drug, marijuana. Once they found high levels of both, they might see no reason to go further and check for any OTC or prescription drug.

Her unusual behavior is what causes me to question alcohol and pot as her only drugs. No passing out in spite of 10 drinks, no swerving or missing even while wrong-way driving; before that she was observed driving aggressively but with control of her vehicle. That might be possible if meth was also in her system, to name one drug that might counteract the effect of alcohol. There are probably several, some legal and some not, some OTC.

More extensive drug testing is more likely to help the defense, so maybe the state won't do more than it needs to rule intoxication.

I wonder what they CAN test for on a three-weeks old body. If there is a mitigating factor to be found in an adverse reaction to some otherwise harmless medication, it has to be there when you look for it. What a nightmare.

 

[Steve2010]

Has it been notated anywhere what caused the vehicle to catch on fire?

Not sure if the investigators have determined the actual cause, but anytime two vehicles come together with impact forces of over 120mph, it's not too hard to speculate that a fuel line ruptured and the gasoline found an ignition source - possibly the hot exhaust system, or a spark from the electrical system.

 

[CatMama3]

I do have a concern about the way the tox reports were handled for the following reasons:

July 28, 2009 By MICHAEL AMON

Authorities found no answers to the Taconic State Parkway crash in autopsy results Tuesday and now face a weeks-long wait for toxicology tests......

.......In the next four to eight weeks, Schuler's blood will be tested for evidence of alcohol or drugs, but police said they doubt Schuler was impaired in that way.

New York State Police investigators said Schuler's actions reminded them of accidents they've witnessed involving diabetic drivers experiencing blood sugar problems. "I've seen something like that myself," Bennett said. "I watched a woman drive a mile on the Taconic Parkway and suddenly just went off the road. It turned out it was a diabetic case."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...rs-no-explanation-for-taconic-crash-1.1332105

Funeral services for Schuler-Hance family members
July 29, 2009 By STACEY ALTHERR
( held July 30, 2009)
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...es-for-schuler-hance-family-members-1.1336343


Driver in deadly Taconic crash Diane Schuler was drunk, had marijuana in system

New York Daily News - Submitted: Aug 4, 2009

Results came in Friday(July 31). Cops waited until the burials of the victims to release the results of the tests.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...y_on_the_taconic_killing_8_was_drunk_on_.html



Am not quite understanding how complete and thorough tox testing went from four to eight weeks to 3 days.

respectfully snipped by me...

ITA on your assessment of the situation. She was drunk and stoned, and no amount of other drugs, no matter what they were, would have significantly altered her ability to function or not function.

ITA also on why the tox screens were handled the way they were. Based on what the authorities (LE, ME, etc) said initially, it seemed that some physical ailment had to be the cause for her bizarre behavior.

Did they buy into the notion that a working suburban wife and mother with her kids and nieces in the vehicle couldn't possibly have been using while driving? If she were male, or a minority, or in a lower socio-economic group, or any combo of these, would the outcome of the tox screens been handled differently? And maybe part of our bewilderment about the situation stems from buying into the same notion.

I will say this: Diane Shuler's actions have sure caused alot of folks to really think about addiction, hidden addiction and the image we project to the world that may hide some vicious demons.

 

[MrsG728]

IMO, she should not have even had one shot of vodka while she was driving. Period.

I applaud you for this comment. The slogan is "don't drink and drive".

Don't get drunk and drive is kinda obvious, if you ask me. I explain this to my students all the time- DWI vs. DUI in NYS is not really the same thing. You can be a teeny bit impaired and still get arrested.

 

[annmarie62]

hello all, 1st-time poster here (LONG-time lurker, though, lol!!)... i used to be on another crime-related msg. board and got banned for voicing my opinion, after THREE YEARS of posting w/no problem....go figure! i have a master's degree in english and have been a teacher for many years (i'm 47), so the 'banning' came as a total shock to me; i just was not used to forums where the 1st amendment is pushed aside! therefore, i have been quite hesitant to post anywhere until now. i am so totally blown away by the honesty both revealed and accepted on this message board, esp. in regard to the ds situation. at least people can be honest here re. their past addictions. i am a recovering alcoholic/prescription drug addict (7 yrs. sober) and i have seen a lot of TRUTH in the posts from other recovering addicts re. this case. i was the QUEEN (imo, lol!) of "hiding" my past addictions, and i functioned VERY well for years and years. i know what it's like to drink/do drugs and drive, and i am convinced that diane schuler (sp?) did as well, there is NO way, imo, that she wasn't drunk/stoned out of her mind when this horrific collision occurred- a 1.75ml of vodka?? whew. on the one hand, i feel so, so badly for her dh, but on the other hand, i find it hard to believe that he knew nothing of her problems. then again, i hid MINE- quite successfully, i might add- for YEARS. he is in total DENIAL, i think. it is all just so SAD. and i totally agree w/other posters here that he and his atty. are really "grasping at straws" re. his defense of diane. i mean- AMBESOL?!! come on...

 

[capoly]

Southern CT gives some relevant alcohol facts at url below. Not too sure I agree with the word 'sensible' re a .06 BAC though.

http://www.southernct.edu/drugalcoholresource/alcoholfacts/



Welcome, annmarie62. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Be Adequite!]

Congrats and welcome AnneMarie! 7 years sober here too...and I'm not even touching this case right now. I'm taking a wait and see approach. (altho not even sure we'll ever have a solid answer)

 

[tapu]

It is absurd to think that the authorities would stop testing for drugs just because they found alcohol and pot in sufficient amounts to impair, in my opinion. Regardless, such testing can still be done as regards Diane Schuler because blood and other samples are preserved for future legal disputes or any other reasons for further testing.

As an aside, welcome all "Friends of"! Me too. This is a great thread for getting honest in a mixed group about how alcohol has operated for us, and thus for society.

 

[capoly]

It's said there's no such thing as a stupid question so will ask....during past times of DWIed were there ever times someone 'realized' that, even for them, they were too far gone to drive?

 

[southcitymom]

respectfully snipped by me...

ITA on your assessment of the situation. She was drunk and stoned, and no amount of other drugs, no matter what they were, would have significantly altered her ability to function or not function.

ITA also on why the tox screens were handled the way they were. Based on what the authorities (LE, ME, etc) said initially, it seemed that some physical ailment had to be the cause for her bizarre behavior.

Did they buy into the notion that a working suburban wife and mother with her kids and nieces in the vehicle couldn't possibly have been using while driving? If she were male, or a minority, or in a lower socio-economic group, or any combo of these, would the outcome of the tox screens been handled differently? And maybe part of our bewilderment about the situation stems from buying into the same notion.

I will say this: Diane Shuler's actions have sure caused alot of folks to really think about addiction, hidden addiction and the image we project to the world that may hide some vicious demons.

I love this post - especially the part about how we "see" addicts in our minds eye. Rationally, we can understand how anyone can be an addict, but there's still a little film that plays behind the scenes that fashions an addict as "low rent" for lack of a better word.

I will say that addiction is more likely to be hidden by someone whose outside mask looks more responsible and socially desireable - parent, professional, educated, etc...etc..but, in reality, the doctor popping oxys before surgery or the Mom doing lines in the bathroom during a playdate have everything in common with the crackhead peddling her body at 3 a.m. in a housing project.

 

[capoly]

Taconic Crash: Diane Schuler's Final Hours

Tom Ruskin, the president of CMP Group Investigations, has been hard at work trying to piece together the final moments of the crash that has horrified the nation and left Schuler's loved ones baffled.
"We've got multiple investigators working hundreds of hours trying to retrace her steps," he said. "Toll receipts, cell phone records, credit card receipts."
The timeline began at 9:30 a.m. at a campground in upstate New York. Ruskin says shortly after Schuler left for home, appearing sober, she stopped at McDonald's.

In surveillance video captured shortly after at a gas station, Schuler appeared sober and in control, Ruskin says.
"You see Diane Schuler filling up the minivan, and then you very clearly see her entering the convenience store," he says. "We now know that she was attempting to purchase Tylenol or Advil gel caps. Did she appear normal? Absolutely."

At 11:37 a.m., Schuler's niece Emma, 8, called her father, Warren Hance, Schuler's brother, to tell him they were running late. At 12:08 p.m. the Hances called back and had what has been described as a "normal" conversation with Schuler. But over the next 48 minutes, something went terribly wrong.
At 12:56 p.m., Emma called her father back in a panic.
"What did Emma say to her dad?" Ruskin said. "She's expressing ... something is wrong with Diane. Diane is incoherent, she is confused and they are lost."
The call dropped out and Schuler's cell phone was later found on top of a wall by a bridge near the highway. "It means 99.9 percent sure she got out of the car," private investigator Tom Ruskin later said.
Schuler's brother called the police to ask them to issue an Amber alert. But by then, it was likely too late, according to Ruskin.



http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8350259

ETA Don't know why there are links in article but can't seem to remove them.

So wish someone stopped to help Emma.

 

[southcitymom]

It's said there's no such thing as a stupid question so will ask....during past times of DWIed were there ever times someone 'realized' that, even for them, they were too far gone to drive?

Yes, but no. I realized I was too far gone to drive safely, but I always drove myself straight home anyway (twice with children) and felt like - "I can make it home okay - it's not far" - because the alternative would be to call someone to help and then I would have to tell the truth about why I was too loaded to operate a motor vehicle at 11 a.m.

 

[southcitymom]

hello all, 1st-time poster here (LONG-time lurker, though, lol!!)... i used to be on another crime-related msg. board and got banned for voicing my opinion, after THREE YEARS of posting w/no problem....go figure! i have a master's degree in english and have been a teacher for many years (i'm 47), so the 'banning' came as a total shock to me; i just was not used to forums where the 1st amendment is pushed aside! therefore, i have been quite hesitant to post anywhere until now. i am so totally blown away by the honesty both revealed and accepted on this message board, esp. in regard to the ds situation. at least people can be honest here re. their past addictions. i am a recovering alcoholic/prescription drug addict (7 yrs. sober) and i have seen a lot of TRUTH in the posts from other recovering addicts re. this case. i was the QUEEN (imo, lol!) of "hiding" my past addictions, and i functioned VERY well for years and years. i know what it's like to drink/do drugs and drive, and i am convinced that diane schuler (sp?) did as well, there is NO way, imo, that she wasn't drunk/stoned out of her mind when this horrific collision occurred- a 1.75ml of vodka?? whew. on the one hand, i feel so, so badly for her dh, but on the other hand, i find it hard to believe that he knew nothing of her problems. then again, i hid MINE- quite successfully, i might add- for YEARS. he is in total DENIAL, i think. it is all just so SAD. and i totally agree w/other posters here that he and his atty. are really "grasping at straws" re. his defense of diane. i mean- AMBESOL?!! come on...

Welcome, annmarie, another sister of mine under the skin! :blowkiss:

I am so glad you felt safe enough to post. WS is amazing like that - just one of the reasons it's the coolest crime board in the world. I hope we hear more from you around here.

As others have mentioned, possibly one of the most important things to come out of this horrible tragedy is a deeper look at addiction and how it can play out.

 

[southcitymom]

Cap,

It's just heartbreaking to read that article about her last hours - especially about Emma who knew something was very wrong.

Like the rest of you, this story has shook me - maybe shook me even more strongly because of my own deadly choices in the past. Like most parents, I love my kids with every ounce of my being - I would throw myself in front of a bullet for them without thinking twice, and I would have done that even when I was actively putting them in danger. I know that sounds insane. Addiction is unquestionably insane - a piece of one of my Fellowship's texts talks about how we "justified the most outrageous sort of behavior to ourselves."

This story makes me hold my children a little tighter and recommit even more fully to giving them a life with a clean Mother.

 

[SleuthyMama]

DS was drunk and is dead. No debating the un-debatable. imo Once her alcohol level was made public this thread ceased being about DS and became all about 'us'. Our attempts to understand addiction, especially hidden addictions. And to deal with fears whether in regards to oneself or a loved one. As well as for those dealing with addiction, believe someone posted along the lines of talking about their addiction helps them with that addiction.

Are OTC discussions relevant to DS as they pertain to the outcome? No. Could they have spiked alcohol levels suddenly and evoked an unknown-to-her reaction? We will never know.

Many have spoken out on here, and admirably so, of how addiction had not stopped them from driving. imo That means dissecting the ins and outs of what can affect a DWI person.

I do have a concern about the way the tox reports were handled for the following reasons:

July 28, 2009 By MICHAEL AMON

Authorities found no answers to the Taconic State Parkway crash in autopsy results Tuesday and now face a weeks-long wait for toxicology tests......

.......In the next four to eight weeks, Schuler's blood will be tested for evidence of alcohol or drugs, but police said they doubt Schuler was impaired in that way.

New York State Police investigators said Schuler's actions reminded them of accidents they've witnessed involving diabetic drivers experiencing blood sugar problems. "I've seen something like that myself," Bennett said. "I watched a woman drive a mile on the Taconic Parkway and suddenly just went off the road. It turned out it was a diabetic case."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...rs-no-explanation-for-taconic-crash-1.1332105

Funeral services for Schuler-Hance family members
July 29, 2009 By STACEY ALTHERR
( held July 30, 2009)
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...es-for-schuler-hance-family-members-1.1336343


Driver in deadly Taconic crash Diane Schuler was drunk, had marijuana in system

New York Daily News - Submitted: Aug 4, 2009

Results came in Friday(July 31). Cops waited until the burials of the victims to release the results of the tests.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...y_on_the_taconic_killing_8_was_drunk_on_.html



Am not quite understanding how complete and thorough tox testing went from four to eight weeks to 3 days.

I completely understand why you would question the completeness of such tox testing. Is it possible though that the four to eight weeks that was initially reported refers to the wait for the testing to be done by the lab? And that perhaps because of the enormity that this case took on...all the press, the devastation to 4 families, etc. that the case moved up to the head of the line and the actual testing itself doesn't take very long?

Also, thanks Capoly, for posting this morning's link to the story done on GMA. What I found interesting about that report is this is the first time I have seen it mentioned that when Warren Hance called the police re Diane, he asked that an Amber Alert be issued. That just seems strange to me. An Amber Alert? I suppose it could have been because he thought that would get the most immediate response in terms of getting help to Diane and the kids.

But does anyone else think asking for an Amber Alert was a bit strange? Or am I reading way too much into that?

 

[southcitymom]

I completely understand why you would question the completeness of such tox testing. Is it possible though that the four to eight weeks that was initially reported refers to the wait for the testing to be done by the lab? And that perhaps because of the enormity that this case took on...all the press, the devastation to 4 families, etc. that the case moved up to the head of the line and the actual testing itself doesn't take very long?

Also, thanks Capoly, for posting this morning's link to the story done on GMA. What I found interesting about that report is this is the first time I have seen it mentioned that when Warren Hance called the police re Diane, he asked that an Amber Alert be issued. That just seems strange to me. An Amber Alert? I suppose it could have been because he thought that would get the most immediate response in terms of getting help to Diane and the kids.

But does anyone else think asking for an Amber Alert was a bit strange? Or am I reading way too much into that?

He may have been counseled when he made that call to request an Amber Alert because those get such widespread and serious and immediate attention. Or, he may have just done it because it was the responsible thing to do with 5 children in that car.

I don't think it indicates that he had any fore-knowledge that DS had a substance abuse problem. I have still not read or seen anything that suggests to me the BAC was anything other than a complete and utter shock to the family.

 

[Lexington]

I completely understand why you would question the completeness of such tox testing. Is it possible though that the four to eight weeks that was initially reported refers to the wait for the testing to be done by the lab? And that perhaps because of the enormity that this case took on...all the press, the devastation to 4 families, etc. that the case moved up to the head of the line and the actual testing itself doesn't take very long?

Also, thanks Capoly, for posting this morning's link to the story done on GMA. What I found interesting about that report is this is the first time I have seen it mentioned that when Warren Hance called the police re Diane, he asked that an Amber Alert be issued. That just seems strange to me. An Amber Alert? I suppose it could have been because he thought that would get the most immediate response in terms of getting help to Diane and the kids.

But does anyone else think asking for an Amber Alert was a bit strange? Or am I reading way too much into that?

Yes, an Amber Alert is very strange. It must be that he had good reason to believe that the children were in iminent danger. The story that Diane didn't feel well does not rise to the level of requesting an Amber Alert. We need to know what was discussed in that 9 minute phone call. Must have been a very distressing alarming conversation.

 

[SleuthyMama]

SCM-do you mean counseled by police to request the Amber Alert? Does it have to specifically be requested by the person making the phone call? Does LE not have the ability to make that determination on their own?

 

[southcitymom]

SCM-do you mean counseled by police to request the Amber Alert? Does it have to specifically be requested by the person making the phone call? Does LE not have the ability to make that determination on their own?

Yes, I mean counseled by the police. If he called and explained the situation, I can easily see the operator saying, "Sir, since they're lost and the driver seems to be having issues would you like to request an Amber Alert - that would reach most people the fastest?" I don;t see why the police couldn't counsel a person when they called - it seems like that would be part of what they do - saying, okay, "Here's the situation you seem to be describing to us and here are some things we could do."

I just don't read anything more into it.

 

[southcitymom]

Yes, an Amber Alert is very strange. It must be that he had good reason to believe that the children were in iminent danger. The story that Diane didn't feel well does not rise to the level of requesting an Amber Alert. We need to know what was discussed in that 9 minute phone call. Must have been a very distressing alarming conversation.

One of the article said Emma told her Dad they were lost and Diane was slurring. Then Diane told him she was having some visual impairment. Then Emma helped identify highway signs and landmarks to give her Dad their location. Then he told Diane to stay put - he was coming. He went to get them, but then when he couldn't get in touch with her again and that's whe he called police.

From my point of view, with that information, an Amber alert seems to make sense. And, as I said in earlier posts, I believe the police may have suggested it after hearing the reason he called.