9 year old girl accidentally shoots, kills instructor with Uzi in Arizona

[nycgrl]

I pray to God that this young girl's name is never released to the media.

 

[Meryl12]

I'm way more worried about the lifelong trauma, nightmares and guilt she will face. I'm sure her family will protect her identity and so would school officials. But she can't escape what she witnessed. Imagine being only 9, seeing an adult killed in front of your face and realizing you did it! That's intensely horrific for a young child. I feel very sorry for her.

I agree this child faces lifelong trauma, but I doubt her parents are going to be the kind, sympathetic, understanding parents she is going to need I honestly think her parents are <modsnip> and are not capable of nurturing her in the way she is going to need. I feel very sorry for her.

 

[EvilSoup]

What the actual $@&&@$%! I do not like jokes. This cannot be REAL! What <modsnip> adults decide this is a good idea?

NINE YEARS OLD. UZI. Lovely combination.

Even Kyle Coplen (Armed Citizen Project, here in Houston) thinks this is a bad idea.

That speaks volumes.

That poor girl. Can you imagine what she saw? I cannot. But I am not a gun shooter. Maybe it's not so scary if you are desensitized. IDK.

I do know this is horrific and avoidable.

 

[EvilSoup]

I agree this child faces lifelong trauma, but I doubt her parents are going to be the kind, sympathetic, understanding parents she is going to need I honestly think her parents are stupid and are not capable of nurturing her in the way she is going to need. I feel very sorry for her.

Yes. They thought letting their nine-year-old shoot an UZI was a stellar idea. Parents of the year. Honestly, how is this even LEGAL? She cannot vote but she can shoot an UZI?

 

[EvilSoup]

Steven Howard, a Michigan-based gun expert who runs American Firearms & Munitions Consulting,
said it was difficult to comment based on the limited information available about the Arizona shooting,
but added that the clip on the submachine gun should not hold more than three rounds during instruction.

"Teaching people machine gun 101, even with adults, even with people going through military training,
the first few times they shoot machine guns you don't have them shoot a full freaking clip," he said.

"The thing begins to fire and it begins to jump and buck all over the place.

Your first human instinct is for your hands to clamp down,
and you clamp down on the trigger and if the thing has a 32-round magazine ...
it starts spraying all over and people get killed."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

That seems like common sense to me...

I could compare it to a snowmobile since that is what I know.
If something scares you and you panic, you may push harder on the throttle, which sits on your right handlebar.
This has resulted in some inexperienced riders hitting trees or people or whatever.
It takes years of experience to change that instinct. I no longer grab the throttle if I get startled, but only the handlebar itself.

This 9 year old would have by instinct pushed the trigger down even more when she started to lose control of the gun.
Simply because that is where her hand would have been at the time.

I wonder if only 3 shots would have made a difference?
Which number shots killed him? 1-3? 6-10? 20-25? That would be good to know as well. :twocents:

She is nine. That is really all that matters. IMO.

 

[EvilSoup]

The website of Bullets and Burgers, the shooting range where the accident happened, says children between the ages of 8 and 17 can shoot a weapon if accompanied by a parent or guardian.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html

I guess choosing to work for a company as an instructor that allows children as young as 8 to fire an Uzi, provided they have a parent or guardian with them, the instructor knowingly chooses the risk. I never said he deserved it, I simply do not feel sorry that his chosen career was a risky one and that risk cost him his life. Not everything that is legal is safe.

I might go a step further and say it is natural selection.

It is why I chose to abandon my dreams of being a dental hygienist to crocodiles.

Still alive, I might add.

 

[EvilSoup]

You would think these gun people would learn. Wasn't it not long ago a little boy was at a gun show with his dad and was allowed to shoot a gun. He accidently killed himself! We need laws!

It's not about what is safe or best for children or society, it's about "my right to shoot off my guns".

This little girl is a victim, too. Of <modsnip> parents. I am so angry about this.

Some people are just stupid.

 

[gitana1]

The website of Bullets and Burgers, the shooting range where the accident happened, says children between the ages of 8 and 17 can shoot a weapon if accompanied by a parent or guardian.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html

I guess choosing to work for a company as an instructor that allows children as young as 8 to fire an Uzi, provided they have a parent or guardian with them, the instructor knowingly chooses the risk. I never said he deserved it, I simply do not feel sorry that his chosen career was a risky one and that risk cost him his life. Not everything that is legal is safe.

I don't quite see the difference. It seems quite harsh to fail to feel bad for someone who actually died because of a horrible mistake or terrible decision they made. If you say he knowingly chose the risk and thus you don't feel sorry that he lost his life, how is that different from saying he deserved what he got?

In any event, the adults involved in the horrible decision to allow a little girl to handle such a weapon are indeed, to blame. But that doesn't mean one cannot or should not feel badly for the loss of life here. The price was incredibly high.

"To put an Uzi in the hands of a 9-year-old ... is extremely reckless, " CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes said.

-----------------------------------------------------

Asked about the culpability of the girl's parents, he said:
"We have considered the parents, but if anyone was culpable it would be the instructor for putting a deadly weapon in her hands."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Yes. They thought letting their nine-year-old shoot an UZI was a stellar idea. Parents of the year. Honestly, how is this even LEGAL? She cannot vote but she can shoot an UZI?

In NY in connection with the case where the 8 year old blew his own head open, it was illegal for a child to handle an UZI. I wonder why not here. And again, everyone in the gun range world must know of the case of the little boy who died so why are any of them still allowing this? I don't understand this. Also, why are no media sources mentioning that case to the people they are spelaking with in connection with this one.

 

[Oblio]

Any person who truly cared about gun use and gun rights would not have done this. The owners of the establishment don't care about people, or gun rights, they care about money. They are thrusting guns into the hands of people who simply have no clue. I have a nine year old. He has a pellet rifle. Every time it is brought out, every rule he has been told is repeated again, and he is quized every step of the way. He has taken hunters' safety, but has yet to pass. He also has a "real" rifle waiting for him, but he doesn't know it yet, because he hasn't passed hunters' safety.

I guess I come from more reasonable gun owning stock. Even my father, the NRA member in the family, believes in some form of gun control. And this is why. There are idiots out there. They don't make up well regulated militia, they make up a band of fools.

 

[nightwatch]

IMO CPS should open a case then transfer it to NJ where this family live to ensure this child gets the help she will need. Jmo

ciao

 

[Kaliste]

I'm just imagining the nightmares this girl must be having. It must have been incredibly chaotic and traumatic. I'm just so angry at her parents, so angry with this company, so angry this is even legal and so worried for this young girl.

 

[neesaki]

Why is it even legal for such young children to use an Uzi? We don't let 8 or 9 year old drive cars, but someone thinks it's a good idea to legally allow them to use such a powerful gun?

I feel sorry for the girl, but no one else. The adults KNEW the risks and made the choice anyway. parents and instructor.

I guess the Uzi doesn't carry a warning, not recommended for use under the age......

This was avoidable.

And the instructor should have known better, and he paid the ultimate price. It appears there was very bad judgment used by all parties involved. How tragic this, unbelievable.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Snipped by me:

"If the instructor hadn't been shot and killed, what do you want to bet the video would have been put on the parents FB and youtube."

That was my first thought and it infuriates me! Were they thinking "Gee, let's video this and post it on youtube to prove to the world what enlightened and forward thinking parents we are!"

That worked real well. These people absolutely disgust me.

 

[LinasK]

I might go a step further and say it is natural selection.

It is why I chose to abandon my dreams of being a dental hygienist to crocodiles.

Still alive, I might add.

Sorry, I've sat on my hands on this thread because the only thing I can say without getting in trouble is: "Idiotic!!!"
But despite the tragedy, this statement is too funny!:lol::floorlaugh:

 

[CarolinaMoon]

My sister and her adult children live in an extremely rural area. They all own guns for protection and hunting. For my sister, a 22 shotgun is handy for the coyotes that have invaded the area. She's also taken lessons for a concealed weapons permit. She passed the class but has yet to take advantage of the privilege.

My great-nephews learn to shoot their little 22 rifles from the age of 5. Their main source of meat is from shooting deer, turkeys, even squirrels.

Dads and sons hunt and dress, Mom's cook. The freezer is full. It's the way of life they live.

As for me, I can't imagine holding a gun, much less firing one. It's just mho.

Even they are so upset about the little girl. This was a very expensive way to get a lot of hits on You Tube.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Snipped by me.....

"Even they are so upset about the little girl. This was a very expensive way to get a lot of hits on You Tube."

ITA! Anything for the you tube hits......

 

[Cubby]

I don't quite see the difference. It seems quite harsh to fail to feel bad for someone who actually died because of a horrible mistake or terrible decision they made. If you say he knowingly chose the risk and thus you don't feel sorry that he lost his life, how is that different from saying he deserved what he got?

I've tried to put myself in the instructors shoes. While I do not own and have never used a gun, I have tried to put myself in a position in which any number of children can enter my place of employment. I know nothing about them. Nothing about their physical, emotional or psychological well being. Nothing about their parents physical, emotional or psycholigcal well being. Yet I choose to put a loaded weapon in their hand simply because their parents signed a waiver. Would I expect to be in a reasonably safe environment? No.

I fail to see where pointing out someone is an enormous risk taker and knowingly accepted that risk equals they deserved it. I see it as personal responsibility for the risks we willingly choose to take with full knowledge of those risks.

 

[Cubby]

Has anyone seen the waiver parents are required to sign for this business? I am so curious to read the full waiver. I'd love to see exactly what warnings were on the waiver for parents.

 

[zwiebel]

'...even the owner of Last Stop, Sam Scarmardo, said he would reconsider the practice in light of Monday&#8217;s accident....&#8220;It is pretty standard in the industry to let children shoot on the range,&#8221;

'Mr. Scarmardo said that the girl&#8217;s parents &#8220;were very familiar with weapons&#8221; and that Mr. Vacca and a tour guide had driven the family to the shooting range from their hotel in Las Vegas.'


' When the girl fired her first shot, a puff of dust rose as the bullet hit the knoll behind the target. Mr. Vacca let out a celebratory &#8220;all right,&#8221; and then shifted the gun to fully automatic mode. The girl again pulled the trigger, but could not hold the gun straight as bullets came flying out at a rate of 600 rounds per minute.'

'Mr. Vacca &#8220;just dropped,&#8221; Sheriff Jim McCabe of Mohave County said. Mr. Vacca was airlifted to a hospital in Las Vegas and died 11 hours later.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/u...-instructor-killed-by-girl-9-in-accident.html

 

[gitana1]

I've tried to put myself in the instructors shoes. While I do not own and have never used a gun, I have tried to put myself in a position in which any number of children can enter my place of employment. I know nothing about them. Nothing about their physical, emotional or psychological well being. Nothing about their parents physical, emotional or psycholigcal well being. Yet I choose to put a loaded weapon in their hand simply because their parents signed a waiver. Would I expect to be in a reasonably safe environment? No.

I fail to see where pointing out someone is an enormous risk taker and knowingly accepted that risk equals they deserved it. I see it as personal responsibility for the risks we willingly choose to take with full knowledge of those risks.

I hear ya', but I;m not saying that it's pointing out someone is an enormous risk taker and knowingly accepted that risk that equals a belief that they deserved it. I'm saying that it's failing to feel any sorrow for them because, hey, whatever, they "knew the risks" and acted anyhow. That is what seems to show a belief that they got what they deserved. Otherwise, there should be, IMO, some sorrow for them.

Oh and I don't believe this guy went into that situation with full knowledge that something like this could happen or that it was a risk. That makes no sense. Should've known and did know are two different things. (I do think he should've known, however).