9 year old girl accidentally shoots, kills instructor with Uzi in Arizona

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Tboy4 said:
Forced to watch crucifixions, stonings and beheadings and taught to fire machine guns as big as they are: How Islamic State training camps for children are swelling
its ranks with junior jihadi

this from the Daily Mail (UK)
Click to expand...
That's just it- this little girl was not Islamic, so there's even less reason than them for her to be using an Uzi, unless she's going to be a one-girl army fighting them!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Competitive shooters lift weights. Lift weights a lot. Long ago in a galaxy far away we knew an Olympic team pistol marksman. His wife could chin herself on his forearm.

I'm serious. The guy could hold his arm out at shoulder level, and his wife would do pull-ups on his forearm.

That's to control the recoil.

Doesn't look like that girl had been workin' out in preparation for this range time.

And, the Uzi is not the problem here, the parents are the problem!

I used to be highly accurate with a .22 rifle, and accurate with a 9 millimeter pistol. The 9 mil is no fun any more -- too much work to try to manage the force. I don't want to take the time needed to do the weight work to improve with it.

Now the .22 pistol, that's easy to manage.

A .22 or an air rifle, that's reasonable for the little arms shown in that video.

Poor kid. Therapy, indeed.
 
Police Report Says Parents Didn’t Realize Daughter Had Shot Gun Instructor

"One deputy said in the police report that after the shooting, the father “stated his family is in shock and just wants to leave the area and go back to Las Vegas.” The deputy said he had asked to speak to his daughter, but the father said “he would prefer if no one talked to his children as they are going through a lot.”
"Ross Miller, the other range instructor, said he realized something was wrong when he saw Mr. Vacca slumped on a table and “saw a lot of blood coming from Charles’s head area and on to the table,” according to his statement to the police. As the family pulled their children away, Mr. Miller laid Mr. Vacca on the ground and started applying pressure to the wound.
"A transcript of the 911 calls released by the sheriff’s office showed how dire the situation was. “We need a helicopter,” the caller from the shooting range said. “An ambulance ain’t gonna work.”
"The police said that it had asked the shooting range staff for copies of the release waivers the family had signed, but that staff members said the papers had been blown away by the wind and could not be recovered.
"The sheriff’s office also said that no charges would be filed in the case."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/parents-didnt-realize-gun-instructor-had-been-shot-police-say.html?_r=1. date Sept 2

This is ..... well, um, sorta, kinda, like, somewhat, a bit, unusual?
 
SCHMAE said:
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26427038/apnewsbreak-girl-said-uzi-was-too-much-for-her

This poor girl ! It was '' too much for her''. No , honey, it's too much for anyone. This sounds like she thinks if she was just a little tougher, she might have held on to that gun better. Please parents, get her therapy TODAY!~
Click to expand...
I agree, Schmae. I don't know what it is with adults (maybe it's primarily with men) expecting children to do things that are beyond their physical capabilities. Earlier on this thread I told about the speed bike with the rusty handles my dad found for me in a junkyard when I was around 10. This has reminded me of another incident that happened when I was in elementary school -- around the same age.

I was always very small for my age and not well coordinated. One day in gym class, we were to do some maneuvers on gymnastics equipment. The teacher assigned us in pairs so that one student could "spot" the other student. I was paired with a girl much taller than myself. While the girl was flipping around on the rings, she went flying off. I put my arms out, but it happened so fast that my one hand just barely brushed her. The girl hit the floor and suffered a broken arm. The teacher scolded me for not breaking the girl's fall, so I spent years feeling responsible for the girl's broken arm. I finally realized that the teacher erred in expecting me to catch a girl who probably weighed twice as much as I did. No one that age should have been expected to catch a falling child. The spotter could have been seriously injured just by trying to break the fall of another child traveling through the air at high velocity. The teacher was projecting blame for his lack of common sense onto me.

If I felt guilty for another child suffering a broken arm because I wasn't strong enough or quick enough to react, I can't imagine the guilt this girl must feel. I doubt that anyone has verbally blamed her for the instructor's death. But, putting an Uzi in her hands instilled the idea in the little girl's mind that she *should* be able to handle it. I do hope the girl will get therapy so she doesn't go through life feeling guilty for what happened, but I hope that her parents also get therapy. They need to understand a child's limitations and be able to own up to their role in this senseless tragedy.
 
al66pine said:
Police Report Says Parents Didn’t Realize Daughter Had Shot Gun Instructor

"One deputy said in the police report that after the shooting, the father “stated his family is in shock and just wants to leave the area and go back to Las Vegas.” The deputy said he had asked to speak to his daughter, but the father said “he would prefer if no one talked to his children as they are going through a lot.”
"Ross Miller, the other range instructor, said he realized something was wrong when he saw Mr. Vacca slumped on a table and “saw a lot of blood coming from Charles’s head area and on to the table,” according to his statement to the police. As the family pulled their children away, Mr. Miller laid Mr. Vacca on the ground and started applying pressure to the wound.
"A transcript of the 911 calls released by the sheriff’s office showed how dire the situation was. “We need a helicopter,” the caller from the shooting range said. “An ambulance ain’t gonna work.”
"The police said that it had asked the shooting range staff for copies of the release waivers the family had signed, but that staff members said the papers had been blown away by the wind and could not be recovered.
"The sheriff’s office also said that no charges would be filed in the case."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/parents-didnt-realize-gun-instructor-had-been-shot-police-say.html?_r=1. date Sept 2

This is ..... well, um, sorta, kinda, like, somewhat, a bit, unusual?
Click to expand...
Ah, the parents just wanted to go home and pretend the incident never happened. But, wait, what will happen when they realize the release waivers are gone? Deny that they ever signed the papers? IDK
 
al66pine said:
Police Report Says Parents Didn’t Realize Daughter Had Shot Gun Instructor

"One deputy said in the police report that after the shooting, the father “stated his family is in shock and just wants to leave the area and go back to Las Vegas.” The deputy said he had asked to speak to his daughter, but the father said “he would prefer if no one talked to his children as they are going through a lot.”
"Ross Miller, the other range instructor, said he realized something was wrong when he saw Mr. Vacca slumped on a table and “saw a lot of blood coming from Charles’s head area and on to the table,” according to his statement to the police. As the family pulled their children away, Mr. Miller laid Mr. Vacca on the ground and started applying pressure to the wound.
"A transcript of the 911 calls released by the sheriff’s office showed how dire the situation was. “We need a helicopter,” the caller from the shooting range said. “An ambulance ain’t gonna work.”
"The police said that it had asked the shooting range staff for copies of the release waivers the family had signed, but that staff members said the papers had been blown away by the wind and could not be recovered.
"The sheriff’s office also said that no charges would be filed in the case."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/parents-didnt-realize-gun-instructor-had-been-shot-police-say.html?_r=1. date Sept 2

This is ..... well, um, sorta, kinda, like, somewhat, a bit, unusual?
Click to expand...
Why aren't better records kept? Shouldn't the office have had duplicate copies?? You keep your only copy of the waiver on the range to be blown away by the wind???
I hope one positive outcome of this tragedy is better regulation of shooting ranges, records, and who is allowed to shoot, and proper procedures.
 
They said, The Dog Ate Their Homework.

Parent-signed waivers were not located. At shooting range,
"....staff members said the papers had beenblown away by the wind and could not be recovered....."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/parents-didnt-realize-gun-instructor-had-been-shot-police-say.html?_r=1. date Sept 2

I see a steep increase in this range's liability insurance premiums in the future. Or maybe cancellation of policy & coverage?

Hoping for parents (everywhere) to consider potential consequences of their actions. Ditto business owners setting their company policies.

Hoping for healing for all involved. RIP Mr. Vacca.
 
Morons

Complete assinine morons

How embarrassing for this country to allow children to handle high powered weapons

Damn people are STUPID
 
zenreaper said:
hundreds of children died last year riding bikes. It is OBVIOUSLY safer to have them in cars...WHEN WILL WE SEE THE DAMAGE and when is ENOUGH ENOUGH? See what I did there?
Click to expand...

Yes. I see. You attempted to use an analogy but, respectfully, you failed.

1. Uzis specifically are not meant for children. They are specifically too much for a small child to handle or to be able to control. The same CANNOT be said for children's bicycles.

2. You see, it's true that hundreds of kids each year die on bikes. But not because they can't handle the apparatus. It's due to going into traffic, irresponsible motorists, using an adult bike, not wearing proper equipment, because children's bikes, unlike Uzis, are actually built for children to use. As a result, BILLIONS of children safely use bikes every day.

3. How about Uzis? Very few kids use them, so when death occurs not once, but twice, during the rare times some irresponsible adult allows a child to handle one, that demonstrates a clear, statistical differentiation between the safety of children using bicycles and children handling Uzis.

4. As someone stated above, bikes were created and designed for children with their health and need for recreation, in mind. Uzis were not. There is no sporting purpose, no health purpose, no recreational purpose to Uzis and they were not designed for a child to handle. (Again, in case you missed it, children's bikes were). Uzis were specifically designed with one purpose- as a military weapon made to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Quite different than the purpose of a bike, right?


Actual analogies would be comparing the use of an Uzi by an 8 year old with allowing an 8 year old to drive an SUV, or to operate dangerous machinery at a food processing plant, or to allow an 8 year old to go to a bar and get drunk or to marry a 40 year old, as long as an adult is supervising. All which have been mercifully banned in western nations.


You see, it's not always about trying to take away rights. Sometimes it's simply about common sense.
 
gitana1 said:
You see, it's not always about trying to take away rights. Sometimes it's simply about common sense.
Click to expand...

No child needs the right to be traumatized for life because they went and accidentally shot someone anyway, if you ask me.
 
al66pine said:
Police Report Says Parents Didn’t Realize Daughter Had Shot Gun Instructor

"One deputy said in the police report that after the shooting, the father “stated his family is in shock and just wants to leave the area and go back to Las Vegas.” The deputy said he had asked to speak to his daughter, but the father said “he would prefer if no one talked to his children as they are going through a lot.”
"Ross Miller, the other range instructor, said he realized something was wrong when he saw Mr. Vacca slumped on a table and “saw a lot of blood coming from Charles’s head area and on to the table,” according to his statement to the police. As the family pulled their children away, Mr. Miller laid Mr. Vacca on the ground and started applying pressure to the wound.
"A transcript of the 911 calls released by the sheriff’s office showed how dire the situation was. “We need a helicopter,” the caller from the shooting range said. “An ambulance ain’t gonna work.”
"The police said that it had asked the shooting range staff for copies of the release waivers the family had signed, but that staff members said the papers had been blown away by the wind and could not be recovered.
"The sheriff’s office also said that no charges would be filed in the case."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/parents-didnt-realize-gun-instructor-had-been-shot-police-say.html?_r=1. date Sept 2

This is ..... well, um, sorta, kinda, like, somewhat, a bit, unusual?
Click to expand...

Reading this makes me furious :furious:

They don't want anyone to talk to their children. They just want to go home??

Well, tough :censored: for you. A man died at the hands of your daughter whom YOU allowed to use a dangerous weapon!! Someone needs to be asking a lot of questions and make sure you are even fit to parent this poor girl.

I'm not even certain they're going to get her any therapy.

And the signed waivers blew away in the wind?? Are you kidding me?
 
Lovejac said:
Reading this makes me furious :furious:

They don't want anyone to talk to their children. They just want to go home??

Well, tough :censored: for you. A man died at the hands of your daughter whom YOU allowed to use a dangerous weapon!! Someone needs to be asking a lot of questions and make sure you are even fit to parent this poor girl.

I'm not even certain they're going to get her any therapy.

And the signed waivers blew away in the wind?? Are you kidding me?
Click to expand...

Yeah it's crazy how the police found no neglect of any kind here and simply acquiesced to the father's demands. However, I'm actually not a big fan of talk therapy for children. Or reliving trauma. I've researched this quite a bit and the best thing for kids who have been traumatized is to have them get back into their regular routine, and to be surrounded by loving, supportive and reassuring adults.

But I can't say these parents are going to be able to be sensitive to their child's needs. Clearly, it wasn't her idea to handle that weapon. Her body language was tentative, very uncomfortable and unsure. She seemed scared, not excited. And her reaction when she lost control- to throw down the weapon and run to her parents crying that it hurt her shoulder- seals the deal. The kid wasn't into it at all.

Unlike many on here, I am not a big anti-gun person. I don't believe in banning guns - it would never work in the US, for one- but I do believe in sensible and serious gun control. I have had fun shooting guns at ranges and out in the desert. I have some family who shoot and own guns. I have friends who shoot. My law partner's kids shoot regularly and fully know how to safely clean a gun, take it apart, and check it for ammo.

That being said, I think that there is a large portion of the gun owning population or gun aficionados who fit a type- macho, fantasies of having to kill someone in self defense, fantasies of being part of an anti-government militia fighting a war against the government, or of fighting against a takeover by a foreign nation or against immigrants or minorities. These are the types who strut, and scream about rights, but usually haven't served and either are sort of cowardly or are super aggressive alpha males. Anyhow, for many of these types, dragging kids out to places like this and forcing them to shoot military style weaponry is part of their MO.

These are the irresponsible gun owners. The type who teach their troubled kids to shoot and don't get rid of the weapons when their children turn dangerous. They are the type who sometimes bully their kids and are surprised when their kids shoot them dead. They are the type who are shocked when their kid dies or kills someone else accidentally, with a weapon they never should've handled to begin with.

Sadly, I think we have way too many of those types among the rest of the pro-gun population. I wonder if this kid has a dad like that.
 
gitana1 said:
Yeah it's crazy how the police found no neglect of any kind here and simply acquiesced to the father's demands. However, I'm actually not a big fan of talk therapy for children. Or reliving trauma. I've researched this quite a bit and the best thing for kids who have been traumatized is to have them get back into their regular routine, and to be surrounded by loving, supportive and reassuring adults.

But I can't say these parents are going to be able to be sensitive to their child's needs. Clearly, it wasn't her idea to handle that weapon. Her body language was tentative, very uncomfortable and unsure. She seemed scared, not excited. And her reaction when she lost control- to throw down the weapon and run to her parents crying that it hurt her shoulder- seals the deal. The kid wasn't into it at all.

Unlike many on here, I am not a big anti-gun person. I don't believe in banning guns - it would never work in the US, for one- but I do believe in sensible and serious gun control. I have had fun shooting guns at ranges and out in the desert. I have some family who shoot and own guns. I have friends who shoot. My law partner's kids shoot regularly and fully know how to safely clean a gun, take it apart, and check it for ammo.

That being said, I think that there is a large portion of the gun owning population or gun aficionados who fit a type- macho, fantasies of having to kill someone in self defense, fantasies of being part of an anti-government militia fighting a war against the government, or of fighting against a takeover by a foreign nation or against immigrants or minorities. These are the types who strut, and scream about rights, but usually haven't served and either are sort of cowardly or are super aggressive alpha males. Anyhow, for many of these types, dragging kids out to places like this and forcing them to shoot military style weaponry is part of their MO.

These are the irresponsible gun owners. The type who teach their troubled kids to shoot and don't get rid of the weapons when their children turn dangerous. They are the type who sometimes bully their kids and are surprised when their kids shoot them dead. They are the type who are shocked when their kid dies or kills someone else accidentally, with a weapon they never should've handled to begin with.

Sadly, I think we have way too many of those types among the rest of the pro-gun population. I wonder if this kid has a dad like that.
Click to expand...

BBM Bingo !!!!!!!!!!
As I mentioned before, I'm glad we have guns. We live out in the sticks and they serve a purpose. That being said , we do not protest things regarding 2nd amendment. We are NOT members of the NRA. We do NOT own high powered assault weapons. I can absolutely see the need for ' gun control'. But gun control and banning all guns are two different things. Lots and lots of people have no business with guns,,,,,, lots ! And I was wondering what type of ' dad' would insist his 9 yr old girl handle this weapon, myself. Ego stroke, bragging rights, my ' tough little girl' , bla bla bla. Wonders what her home life was like before this :( Any time my daughter has said she did not want to shoot, her dad agreed. ( we are talking SINGLE shot weapons here ) If you're not comfortable with it, you don't need to do it , period. You don't need to be talked into, pressured into, forced into shooting a gun of any size. When our kids were too small to handle guns but smart enough to pay attention, the DH shot a watermelon in front of them and had them go look at the damage it did. This was to make an impact on them of how much damage one small ' bullet' could do . It was not a toy or a game or a photo op. It 's deadly serious.
 
SCHMAE said:
BBM Bingo !!!!!!!!!!
As I mentioned before, I'm glad we have guns. We live out in the sticks and they serve a purpose. That being said , we do not protest things regarding 2nd amendment. We are NOT members of the NRA. We do NOT own high powered assault weapons. I can absolutely see the need for ' gun control'. But gun control and banning all guns are two different things. Lots and lots of people have no business with guns,,,,,, lots ! And I was wondering what type of ' dad' would insist his 9 yr old girl handle this weapon, myself. Ego stroke, bragging rights, my ' tough little girl' , bla bla bla. Wonders what her home life was like before this :( Any time my daughter has said she did not want to shoot, her dad agreed. ( we are talking SINGLE shot weapons here ) If you're not comfortable with it, you don't need to do it , period. You don't need to be talked into, pressured into, forced into shooting a gun of any size. When our kids were too small to handle guns but smart enough to pay attention, the DH shot a watermelon in front of them and had them go look at the damage it did. This was to make an impact on them of how much damage one small ' bullet' could do . It was not a toy or a game or a photo op. It 's deadly serious.
Click to expand...


Whoa! I like that idea. My son has attended hunters' safety, so he has seen some things, but that real, live demonstration sounds like a good idea. Especially since my kids handle a pellet rifle. I'm afraid they don't get the full scope of what can be done.

I, like you and Gitana, have no problem with kids learning to, and handling guns. But there is a right way and a wrong way. I don't care for the NRA, and if there was an all out ban on military style weapons, I'd be just fine with it. I think the second amendment has been twisted and pulled out of context to justify the gun rights we have today.
 
Oblio said:
Whoa! I like that idea. My son has attended hunters' safety, so he has seen some things, but that real, live demonstration sounds like a good idea. Especially since my kids handle a pellet rifle. I'm afraid they don't get the full scope of what can be done.

I, like you and Gitana, have no problem with kids learning to, and handling guns. But there is a right way and a wrong way. I don't care for the NRA, and if there was an all out ban on military style weapons, I'd be just fine with it. I think the second amendment has been twisted and pulled out of context to justify the gun rights we have today.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Were it not for private individuals insisting they be able to own things like the UZI, I think the ' anti gun' side would probably quiet down. Most people agree that certain places need guns and that hunting is ok, etc. But when people start demanding military grade weapons then the question is " WHY " ? I say to anyone whose argument is ' to defend ourselves from an unjust government, just in case', ''ummmmmmm, the govt has tanks, and planes and ships and BOMBS ''. So what really is your uzi going to do about that ? It's a joke and it has made responsible gun owners seem like nutjobs. :) mooooooooo and it's true !
 
I am going to disagree with some of you who are placing most of the blame on the parents. They didn't take the little girl to a field and just hand her an Uzi, and she shot it and an innocent bystander got killed. She was at a shooting range, with an instructor. They mistakenly placed their trust in the range and the instructor. If the management of the gun range knew this would be dangerous, they could have nixed the idea of a child shooting a high powered weapon. They didn't . Who would be more familiar with how weapons can be mishandled and things can go awry , the people who run a gun range or the average person ?
 
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