A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[JWG]

The chemical analyses don't test for absolutely everything. Here we have primarily volatile compounds released into the trunk itself or released from liner samples etc. There will also be all maner of solids -eg dirt, ash, residues of all sorts. There have been occasions when I have tried cleaning something - first one product, then another and clearly there is a chemical reaction with fizzing and popping, perhaps even the smell of chlorine. (I didn't listen to what my Mother told me either). I do think that the defence could easily get an "expert" to testify to how chloroform can be produced from mixes of common chemicals, and so offer an explanation of why it might be in the trunk. That is as far as they need to go. As I have said all along, that arguement is not sufficient IF there is evidence with the remains such as chloroform absorbed in hair or bone marrow. I think it highly unlikely they will find a bottle labled "Pure Chlorofom! Caution do not administer to children under 3 "

One thing the Body Farm report noted as not yet being complete was the volatile fatty acid analysis which they indicated would help support the existence of a decompositional even and would provide the best data on post-mortem interval in the absence of entomological evidence.

 

[JWG]

One thing the Body Farm report noted as not yet being complete was the volatile fatty acid analysis which they indicated would help support the existence of a decompositional even and would provide the best data on post-mortem interval in the absence of entomological evidence.

I should have also mentioned that the Body Farm report mentioned that one of their chemists compared the trunk odor findings with the MSDS sheet for BlueStar, which is luminol, to ensure the spraying of luminol in the trunk did not adversely affect the analysis (it did not, according to the chemist).

This means LE checked for blood in the trunk. No report on the findings has been released (probably negative).

 

[Rumpole]

One thing the Body Farm report noted as not yet being complete was the volatile fatty acid analysis which they indicated would help support the existence of a decompositional even and would provide the best data on post-mortem interval in the absence of entomological evidence.

Yes, I am aware of the cautionary note that these are preliminary results. I hope we all get to see the update. I assume it will only add information and not refute anything deemed valid enough to release publicly?.

 

[RevCrim]

Premeditated? Yes

Who would put tape over a dead child's mouth? For what reason?

 

[Rumpole]

Premeditated? Yes

Who would put tape over a dead child's mouth? For what reason?

Sadly I think lots of people would, just to quiet a child.

But that in itself does not show "premeditated" as in thinking ahead and planning for someone to die

 

[Jolynna]

Sadly I think lots of people would, just to quiet a child.

But that in itself does not show "premeditated" as in thinking ahead and planning for someone to die

When the duct tape extends over into your child's hair, that is evidence you don't think the duct tape will be coming off.

IMO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag

 

[Rumpole]

When the duct tape extends over into your child's hair, that is evidence you don't think the duct tape will be coming off.

IMO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag

Some people are stupid, they still might not be planning to kill, or realise that the tape itself will kill. I am only arguing that it doesn't show "premeditation" not that I think its not an awfull thin to do. Just to be clear I am not defending KC at all. She is vile and evil and should get LWOP or more

 

[Pattymarie]

Now, after all this time, with all we know, with all the doc dumps...

I still read on this forum where many think the killing was accidental. Is this because the evidence points this way? Or is this because you can't believe this 22 yr. old killed her daughter in cold blood?

Please explain your position. I, myself believe that the evidence points to pre-meditation, despite what I feel, as a mother, that it couldn't possibly have been so.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Why not admit to what happened if it was an accident? You don't go to prison LWOP for an accidental death - too many passed up chances to say it was an accident. Yes 30/31 days after the fact but if she was afraid that LE wouldn't believe her why not have JB really push for a plea deal instead of him playing the email tag with LE - not an accident

 

[Rumpole]

Now, after all this time, with all we know, with all the doc dumps...

I still read on this forum where many think the killing was accidental. Is this because the evidence points this way? Or is this because you can't believe this 22 yr. old killed her daughter in cold blood?

Please explain your position. I, myself believe that the evidence points to pre-meditation, despite what I feel, as a mother, that it couldn't possibly have been so.

I think in addition to planning and premeditation, and accident, there is the third possibility of a sudden act of rage. Not premedited as in planned.

I think KC would have owned up and even basked in the after situation if it were an accident.

 

[Absolutely]

Everything we've heard and read so far about KC points to someone who can't think 10 minutes ahead so I'd have to say no to premeditation. I don't believe it was an accident it just happened...

 

[Rumpole]

Everything we've heard and read so far about KC points to someone who can't think 10 minutes ahead so I'd have to say no to premeditation. I don't believe it was an accident it just happened...

That's about where I am. She might have been "thinking" about being rid of Caylee in general terms, but the final event was spur of the moment.

No less horrible in my view and deserving full penalty. LWOP or Death!

 

[tiredofthis]

When the duct tape extends over into your child's hair, that is evidence you don't think the duct tape will be coming off.

IMO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag

I wonder if the duct tape was over her nose as well and became dislodged from that area when decomposition occurred? The person who placed the duct tape on Caylee's face wanted the duct tape to stick. There were no plans to remove the tape at a later date.

 

[mybrokenwings]

Everything we've heard and read so far about KC points to someone who can't think 10 minutes ahead so I'd have to say no to premeditation. I don't believe it was an accident it just happened...

I disagree that Casey couldn't have planned the murder. She proved by the way she stole money and used Amy's checks while she was gone that she had to have thought about it in advance and plannend it. She was very good at planning when it came to being deceiptful and manipulative. I do believe that she planned to kill Caylee and the fight that night may have made her act on it at that time.

 

[weasel]

At first blush my thoughts were that Casey had killed her daughter in a fit of rage after a heated fight with her mother. But when the reports surfaced regarding the computer searches, I had to rethink my position.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

How did Casey just happen to have THAT around ready to use? From what I hear, George and Cindy don't have duct tape in their house now.
JMO

respectfully snipped

I think the duct tape was in her car already.. It was the left over tape that she had borrowed from amy for the no clothes party when she used it to tape the flag on her..and prolly just put it in the trunk after that..

 

[Chilly Willy]

At first blush my thoughts were that Casey had killed her daughter in a fit of rage after a heated fight with her mother. But when the reports surfaced regarding the computer searches, I had to rethink my position.

I still haven't seen proof that there actually was a fight on the night of the 15th. I don't believe there was, or if they did fight, it was just business as usual to Casey. Phone pings and computer usage show that she was at the Anthony home during the day on the 16th. She did not, as some people theorize, get pizzed and leave with Caylee the night before.

 

[costalpilot]

Everything we've heard and read so far about KC points to someone who can't think 10 minutes ahead so I'd have to say no to premeditation. I don't believe it was an accident it just happened...

premeditation can be formed in 5 seconds.

don't ya'll watch NG?

jus kiddin, but thats what she says.

 

[Absolutely]

At first blush my thoughts were that Casey had killed her daughter in a fit of rage after a heated fight with her mother. But when the reports surfaced regarding the computer searches, I had to rethink my position.

I'm starting to wonder if the defense is going to try and throw RM under the bus in relation to those searches...

 

[Seebra]

Bump - thank you mod for letting me know this is already being discussed - it has always bothered me that there were some people who thought that Casey accidentally overdosed her daughter, and I have read through every single document available in this case and absolutely believe that this was premeditated and not some accident that KC tried to cover up.

What I am wondering, however, is what leads others to believe that drugging Caylee was something KC did several times in the past when she wanted to go party.

If this was the case, what made you reach that opinion - what led you to believe that she simply used to much this particular time? Did you read something somewhere that led you to conclude this?

I just believe that Caylee would have exhibited some type of fear if she were drugged and left in a trunk or something in the past - I read several times that Caylee displayed separation anxiety and that she loved her mother and always wanted to be with her. Even at her young age, I would think she would fear her mother or display fear in some way. Any thoughts?