A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[magic-cat]

minazoe: this statement of yours:
I think she had chloroform and tried it on Amy and was experimenting.

would certainly explain why Amy changed her pants in her sleep without any recollection. MAYBE Casey changed her pants because she got chloroform on them and did not want Amy to suspect. AND it would explain why Amy slept so soundly that she believed the story that she had "sleepwalked"...perhaps Casey was just setting her up for the robbery, and once she saw how effective it was, she decided to go ahead and use it on Caylee as well...Good theory about testing it out on Amy...I would not have thought of that.

 

[tiredofthis]

I believe premeditated, and thats how I voted, First thing you do with an accident is call 911, accidents happen period its tragic yes, but you know you did everything in your power to help your child...........not try and cover it up for petes sake!!


Poppy

:clap::clap::clap:

The first thing you do when your child is seriously hurt is call 911. My son fell out of his crib, because I had forgotten to put the side up. He had a huge bump on his forehead. The first thing I did was grab the phone to call an ambulance. I didn't care if my mom thought I was an unfit mother for not putting the side of the crib up. The only thing I cared about was my child.

Her reaction was not normal!

 

[feddup]

Mothers and daughters argue all the time. In fact, I know a young woman who has same case scenario as KC. Single Mom living with Mom, etc. Argued all the time altho she DID work but yes, she regretted having her child and the entire situation but she moved out and got her own place.
I dont blame that fight on Cindy and Cindy causing ANY of this.
I bet 70% of us would had really gotten it from our Mothers IF we were 22 and living at home and our Mother was TRYING to help us through the single Mom thing and we whined about how we couldnt "party" enough.
Well, maybe she shouldve thought of that and used better birth control?
If KC did this to get back at Cindy then I think she is evil.
The GP's provided quite a nice life for KC and Caylee.
And another thing, in one video watched, Cindy says to Caylee, "come to Grammie" I dont think she made Caylee call her Mommy.
This was all KC's doing so she could be at Fusion and Tonys and live the "beautiful" life. *GAG*
And.....as far as the dead squirel story. Ive driven alot longer than her and I have NEVER had 2 squirrels climb up in my car and die. Boy, she sure sits around and thinks up some doozies First pizza and now squirrels.

 

[Nosey Parker]

snipped

I'm saying no that it was not Pre Meditated Murder. I believe she left on the 15th after a horrible argument with the parents. She may have awakened Caylee whom screamed and cried upon her departure. Anybody here ever wake up a small child from sleep, not pretty? Plus I'm sure there was arguing going on at the departure which may have frightened the child much more. This was showdown day for her parents on all the thefts and lies and may have even threatened her with the police or mental help. So she's driving around with her daughter in the back screaming and crying. At a moments loss of control she may have strangled, beat, or shook the girl to death. I think after this happened she went to her "Quiet Place" from her interview and almost spilled the beans.

Being a Sociopath though her answer to herself was to act naturally and just lay the blame of what happened on her parents and anyone else. The police/general public do not blame a parent that say nods off on the sofa while the child sneaks out and gets hit by a vehicle or drowns. They do, however blame a parent that loses control and beats their kid to death. I can almost picture her sitting somewhere and closing all thoughts of guilt about herself and going through all the events and laying blame for each event that triggered this on other people.

Exactly my thoughts at the moment. KC has probably been adding each lie to cover a previous lie ever since, along with trying to create a kidnapping story by drawing on old references. For instance, I think the name "Zanny" popped out of her mouth the day Jesse's dad confronted her with "no more babysitting". From then on, she has had the luxury of a "nanny" and it came in handy later as her cover story. So far, I'm not sensing premeditation, but nevertheless, it's just as evil.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Well in order for the court to establish PREMEDITATED murder the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:


1. (Defendant) did some act intended to cause the death of (victim) that went beyond just thinking or talking about it.


2.(Defendant) acted with a premeditated design to kill (victim).


3.The act would have resulted in the death of (victim) except that someone prevented (defendant) from killing (victim) or [he] [she] failed to do so.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...lorida+Supreme+Court&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Karate, now I'm old and confused again :grandma::waitasec:


Number 3) says: "the act would have resulted in the death..."

Isn't that an element of Attempted Premed murder vs Premed Murder?????
:help:


Oh, and I voted "on the fence" because I cannot yet wrap my mind around the sheer evil she would have to embody to harm that cutie pie angel. Sure I know that it exists but it is still hard to accept...

 

[Theonly1]

Premeditation:

Just wanted to mention again that the law says premeditation can occur "in the twinkling of an eye". One does not have to sit around, make detailed plans and meditate on a murder for it to be premeditation. It can literally occur in one or two seconds.

 

[Pollywog]

I always thought she did it to spite her mother. She was so jealous of Caylee getting all the attention and just could not stand it. I think when she left after their argument she decided right then to get rid of her daughter and be done with the whole thing. She was not real smart in her actions after the fact.

All of her lies have caught up to her and it is just a matter of time before her walls come crashing down. Think it wouldhappen sooner rather than later if the media would just forget about her. Also, her attorney is something else, just what I have not figured out yet. I wouldnot want that representing me on any matter, but then that is my opinion only.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

women tend to be poisoner's, I think she planned this before the fight. (snipped).

Casey doesn't represent much about the avg woman. She's soo far beyond the valley of the average female nutcase, even....if there is a gender-based murder standard...

Welcome, Minazoe.:wave:

 

[tiredofthis]

Murder 1: Premeditated murder. Meaning it was planned.

Murder 2: A murder occurring in the heat of the moment. It wasn't planned.

Murder 3: You didn't mean to hurt the person, but your actions resulted in his/her death.
(manslaughter)

I'm not sure if this is correct.

I'm still leaning toward premeditated. JMO

 

[RasGirl26]

I think its very possible that Caylee was already deceased when KC stole the money from AH (unless I have my dates wrong?) and since KC had been using the chloro. on Caylee she knew it would work on AH. Just a thought

 

[bexpruner]

Hello, I am a first time poster. It's nice to finally join you guys!

As for the OP- I believe the chloroform searches on her computer are going to play a big role in if this was premeditation or not. If this was previous to Caylees dissapearance, then yes, I believe it was premeditation, but if it was after, then I have to stick with my first instinct and call it an accident.

In Jesse Grunds newest interview, he had said that Casey would sometimes leave Caylee alone, usually in the living room, while she was in the computer room on the computer, or outside on her phone. He also said Caylee was the type of kid who always put things in her mouth.. So until I know for sure when those searches were done, I am going to stick with my first instinct and say something unfortunate happened to Caylee under Caseys neglectful care.

 

[eg@gm]

I don't think she did this to spite her mother...she obviously was going from house to house hooking up with men. I'm sure Caylee was getting to the point of talking about these guys. This could not have been good for Casey's relationship with her loverboy AL if Caylee was talking about the other guy she just saw her mom with.

 

[tiredofthis]

I think its very possible that Caylee was already deceased when KC stole the money from AH (unless I have my dates wrong?) and since KC had been using the chloro. on Caylee she knew it would work on AH. Just a thought

Interesting. I'm off to check the dates.

 

[magic-cat]

I just think that Casey KNEW that her mom thought she was an unfit mother, and she KNEW she was. She did not watch her carefully enough and she knew it and everyone around her knew it too...so she MAY have just calculated that in to her "plan". She knew that an accident would be plausible and believable, based on her previous pattern of neglect (not watching closely enough). I was on the phone and she got in the pool and drowned. I was on the computer and she somehow got outside and climbed up on her playhouse and fell off. I was in the bathroom for just a minute and when I came back out she had choked to death...When in reality-she likely chloroformed her own baby-or it would not have been in the trunk in such high conentrations, where we KNOW that Caylee WAS at some point...

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I have read all 317 pages of the new documents and I am convinced now more than ever that this was no accident, it was pre-meditated murder. I always wanted to beleive that it was an accident or negligent homicide, but when Casey told her brother she was a spiteful %^&*$ it all became very clear in my mind.

I feel the same way. I've yet to read through all of the pages so I'm not voting yet but when I heard those words "spiteful ", my heart dropped and I felt nauseated. It was as if I suddenly realized what this girl is truly capable of.

 

[Marina2]

I think I've fallen off the fence. What haunts me is the "spiteful B" remark. Basically admitting that whatever happened, was done out of spite. Makes me ill to think about it.

I'm sure I'm in the minority but that remark by Casey didn't effect my judgement of this case in any way. I've read that it is the deciding point for many on this forum. IMO, Casey said that in sarcasm. It sounds like something Cindy would say to Casey in anger or in anger over what had transpired in the month Caylee was being "kept from her". Casey had been discussing with Lee Cindy's opinion of her. It seemed to me like she may have been saying something like "Well, like Mom said, I'm a spiteful *advertiser censored*." but she left out everything but the last part. However she meant it, it did not come across well in the transcripts.

ETA: I'm still on the fence on whether it was an accident or murder.

 

[lostnfound85]

3 things go against then "accident" theory.

1. Too coincidental - happened right when she went on her little "sabatical".

2. She didn't take Caylee's doll, or any of her clothes, like she wasn't planning to have her with her.

3. Showed no remorse or concern for Caylee after she went missing - this is the sign of a murder, not an accident taking place.

 

[magic-cat]

3 things go against then "accident" theory.

1. Too coincidental - happened right when she went on her little "sabatical".

2. She didn't take Caylee's doll, or any of her clothes, like she wasn't planning to have her with her.

3. Showed no remorse or concern for Caylee after she went missing - this is the sign of a murder, not an accident taking place.

Agreed.

 

[Mendara]

She didn't take any of Caylee's clothes or supplies with her, no shoes, toys, clothes, sheets..nothing. That sounds like she never planned on taking care of Caylee at all and not for too long. Also was telling people Caylee was potty trained, I bet that was to eliminate questions about why she was not buying diapers.

 

[DeltaDawn]

I have always thought that Caylee was dead, now the evidence in the trunk proves, I have always thought this was very much premeditated by Casey..I have always felt very cold hearted toward her because this B&tch has ice water in her veins.

She wasn't about to give her lifestyle, get a job and work for a paycheck, put Caylee in daycare or any of the other things normal Mom's do..rather they are 20 or 40 years old.

She was going to do Cindy one better and get rid of her problem once and for all..killing to birds with one stone..setting herself free and hurting her mother to the nth degree.