A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[piratemom]

This is a great thread. I wonder if we will ever uncover the truth. It is all so frustrating already! Alomst 1 year of this! I still dont understand how the A family are 100% behind KC after all of this premeditated or accidental what happened was wrong!

 

[Darla]

Absolutely no accident!

The first few days until we heard more I thought she might have left her in a hot car sleeping while she shopped or forgot she was (asleep) in the car when she reached her destination. But now ---- PREMEDITATED

 

[hornswoggled]

I do think Caylee's death was accidental. I believe that Casey was so irresponsible and careless with this child's life in order to have her "free time". I have felt for a long time that she regularly used drugs to make Caylee sleep so that she could party or whatever it was she was doing - who knows? But one time too many and Caylee died.

I keep on going back to the statement she made to detectives when they asked if Zenaida gave Casey money that day (that Caylee was "taken"). Casey said that if she had just wanted to "get rid" of her daughter that she would have just left home and given custody to her Mom. I believe that was one of the very few true statements that Casey made.

She just put Caylee to sleep once too often, and Caylee died. So it is murder in that respect, but I don't think it was premeditated. There were too many instances of panic-driven actions for premeditation - the dump site, the shovel, carrying the body around in the trunk.

I hope she spends the rest of her life locked up.

 

[jjgram]

Well.......... KC told JB that it was NOT her.... so I say ACCIDENTAL !!!

KC said: she is innocent !
JB said: KC Said She is Innocent

so I guess that the Skeleton of Little Angel Caylee.... found with Duct Tape
around the head... inside garbage bags.. and Laundry hamper... found in the
woods....... was just an accident ! !

L@@K.... say... a person trips... falls into a roll of duct tape... starts twisting and turning around to get out of the duct tape...but gets the tape tangled into their hair and around their mouth... twist & turns some more.... trips...falls
into the trunk of the car... and lands directly into a Dirty Clothes Laundry Hamper... that is inside a Garbage Bag.. then 2 days later .... bags fall out of the
back of the car... while driving down the street of the neighborhood....

A C C I D E N T......... Does Sound like a T E R R I B L E ~ACCIDENT ! ! !
S C A R Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Scary......... I suggest .... don't own any duct tape... this could happen ... a terrible home accident !

JMO
jjgram

*** SEEKING ~ JUSTICE~ for Little Angel Caylee !

** Dang I'm sarcastic ~ I'm Ticked Off ! DUCT TAPE IS OUR ENEMY !!
W A T C H ~ OUT ~~~ THE ACCIDENTAL RATE OF DUCT TAPE ACCIDENTS
IS GROWING IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA !!!

 

[Rumpole]

Well.......... KC told JB that it was NOT her.... so I say ACCIDENTAL !!!

KC said: she is innocent !
JB said: KC Said She is Innocent

so I guess that the Skeleton of Little Angel Caylee.... found with Duct Tape
around the head... inside garbage bags.. and Laundry hamper... found in the
woods....... was just an accident ! !

L@@K.... say... a person trips... falls into a roll of duct tape... starts twisting and turning around to get out of the duct tape...but gets the tape tangled into their hair and around their mouth... twist & turns some more.... trips...falls
into the trunk of the car... and lands directly into a Dirty Clothes Laundry Hamper... that is inside a Garbage Bag.. then 2 days later .... bags fall out of the
back of the car... while driving down the street of the neighborhood....

A C C I D E N T......... Does Sound like a T E R R I B L E ~ACCIDENT ! ! !
S C A R Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Scary......... I suggest .... don't own any duct tape... this could happen ... a terrible home accident !

JMO
jjgram

*** SEEKING ~ JUSTICE~ for Little Angel Caylee !

** Dang I'm sarcastic ~ I'm Ticked Off ! DUCT TAPE IS OUR ENEMY !!
W A T C H ~ OUT ~~~ THE ACCIDENTAL RATE OF DUCT TAPE ACCIDENTS
IS GROWING IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA !!!

Very bad duct tape.

Should have WARNINGS in large friendly red letters!

"CAUTION: Do NOT allow use by children under 3 years old!"

KC should sue manufacturers!

 

[Searchfortruth]

I thought early on that it may have been accidental, but nothing really supports that theory. An accidental death would be supported by an immediate call for help, 911, extreme grief, sadness, guilt, in this case we have none of that. She not only did not notify anyone, she hid the body in her trunk and then disposed of her in two trash bags and a cloth laundry bag. Add to that the duct tape and heart sticker found on the head. The remains were found 2/10 of a mile from the home, keeping in line with what we know about mothers who kill, burial is usually close to home. Casey's behavior after June 15th is one of the strongest pieces of evidence pointing to a premeditated murder, partying at nightclubs, pictures of Casey with a smile on her face. The pictures do not portray a sad person, infact they show a VERY happy person free of guilt, remorse and depression. Nothing in this case, that I have seen, points to an accident.

 

[Pattymarie]

How on earth are we even still debating whether this was pre-meditated or accidental? All you have to do is follow the evidence.

 

[SL_Zero]

i still think it was accidental.
people will go to unbelievable lengths in denial to cover up wrongdoings.
kc was very concerned with how she was perceived, very intent on finding a man, and a great fan of becoming a victim.

the circumstances of the accident, perhaps an illegal substance o something else that would have increased the fear of contacting the authorities, are a good point to ponder.

denial can run deep and all consuming for some people.
i suspect ms anthony is one of them.

i fully believe that caylee died somehow and kc went into complete panic and coverup mode. she probably reasoned that a kidnapping would paint her as a pretty victim, while screwing up and your kid accidentally dying would ruin her life forever, and she went into cya mode... disposing of the body and making it look like a kidnapping. the longer it took for anyone to ask questions, the better chance she had at getting away with it. (or so she thought)

why else would you drive around in your car with a body for days?
if premeditated, she would have decided on a resting place as part of the plan. cmon, thats basic planning. 1, how to kill and 2, where to dump.

the fact that she was making reference to the smell as a dead squirrel really cinched the denial factor for me. that just screams denial. she wasnt just telling her friend, she was telling herself.

but then i suppose unless someone with some info finally gives up and confesses, we will really never know.

 

[stellasmommyphd]

If the pesticide is related to the chloroform, it makes more sense to me they would have taken it after the chloroform was found in the car, not months later.
You think it was suffocation. What do you have to back this up, because there are pillows in the house? Chloroform theorists have ACTUAL, UNUSUALLY LARGE CONCENTRATIONS OF CHLOROFORM found in the trunk. The internet search for it is just an added bonus. The chloroform may not be right, but yes, ma'am, it is indeed a plausible theory.
Lanie

this is the thing i have never bought about the chloroform theory. chloroform has to be made, not bought, correct? do you really see casey manufacturing chloroform??? a woman who can't even come up with a plausible cover up theory or stick to a story has the patience and persistence to do in-depth chemistry lab stuff? i don't think so. i agree, there has to be an explanation for the chloroform in the trunk. but if KC made chloroform, she'd have to be smarter/less ADD/more pragmatic than she clearly is.

 

[Rumpole]

i still think it was accidental.
people will go to unbelievable lengths in denial to cover up wrongdoings.
kc was very concerned with how she was perceived, very intent on finding a man, and a great fan of becoming a victim.

the circumstances of the accident, perhaps an illegal substance o something else that would have increased the fear of contacting the authorities, are a good point to ponder.

denial can run deep and all consuming for some people.
i suspect ms anthony is one of them.

i fully believe that caylee died somehow and kc went into complete panic and coverup mode. she probably reasoned that a kidnapping would paint her as a pretty victim, while screwing up and your kid accidentally dying would ruin her life forever, and she went into cya mode... disposing of the body and making it look like a kidnapping. the longer it took for anyone to ask questions, the better chance she had at getting away with it. (or so she thought)

why else would you drive around in your car with a body for days?
if premeditated, she would have decided on a resting place as part of the plan. cmon, thats basic planning. 1, how to kill and 2, where to dump.

the fact that she was making reference to the smell as a dead squirrel really cinched the denial factor for me. that just screams denial. she wasnt just telling her friend, she was telling herself.

but then i suppose unless someone with some info finally gives up and confesses, we will really never know.

I think you are missing a whole bunch of explanations between a simple accident and premeditation all planned out.

Angry use of force - a blow or smuthering for instance is still likely to be regarded as murder1.

Taping a childs mouth and that resulting in death is still murder one.

Just 2 examples, but the point is it could be a lot of things other than "accident" or a detailed scheme.

 

[SL_Zero]

I think you are missing a whole bunch of explanations between a simple accident and premeditation all planned out.

Angry use of force - a blow or smuthering for instance is still likely to be regarded as murder1.

Taping a childs mouth and that resulting in death is still murder one.

Just 2 examples, but the point is it could be a lot of things other than "accident" or a detailed scheme.

oh i'm not deliberating the legal charge,
i just think she screwed up and something happened to the kid (ie drugging her and od, or neglect, or something) as opposed to the intentional murder to spite her mother theory.

 

[jjgram]

*** Yesterday... at the hearing... they reported that the new
attny joining JB was a man from CALIFORNIA that specialized in
re creating... accidents... of something of that nature.....

So... we are just discussing...

H O W in the World.... could you describe.... DUCT TAPE on a 2 year old's
mouth.... as an accident...

THERE IS NO WAY ! ! !
There is NO Way she got Duct Tape...on her mouth.... crawled into
the Trunk of KC's Car... Got inside a Laundry Bag and inside a Garbage Bag
and
then ended up in the woods... by the Anthony's home...
Just seems....
like a FAR............. stretch that it could be an A C C I D E N T ! !

JMO

God Bless !
jjgram

*** SEEKING JUSTICE FOR LITTLE ANGEL CAYLEE !!!!
~~~~MURDERED AT AGE 2~~~ JUNE 2008 !

 

[trixi491]

Don't know if this was addressed, but just say the jury does believe it was an accident, does she walk off free? Is there still some sort of punishment attached even if they believe it was an accident?

 

[SL_Zero]

Don't know if this was addressed, but just say the jury does believe it was an accident, does she walk off free? Is there still some sort of punishment attached even if they believe it was an accident?

i think that's what hercule was referring to.
accidental or premeditated may or may not define the degree of charge.

i would think things like faking a kidnapping after your kid drowns while you're webcam-whor!ng, or selling booty pics of yourself online, or myspacing, or sleeping off a hangover........... would be something very close to premeditated murder charge.

i just wonder which it is because i want to know the truth.
i wholeheartedly believe that either way it turns out, she will rot in jail forever.

i wonder, dependent upon the outcome of events during trial.... can the charge change?

 

[Chilly Willy]

I had a wild thought yesterday, and I'm not saying I believe this happened, but in case anyone wants to discuss it:

What if Casey were attempting to get Caylee to swallow a pill, some type of sedative, and Caylee refused or kept spitting it out. Could Casey have duct taped Caylee's mouth to keep the pill in until it dissolved? Between crying and possibly even vomiting, Casey could have aspirated. And then Casey could have put the heart sticker on the tape as a way to say, "Ooops, sorry sweetie" and then gone out partying?

 

[Rumpole]

I had a wild thought yesterday, and I'm not saying I believe this happened, but in case anyone wants to discuss it:

What if Casey were attempting to get Caylee to swallow a pill, some type of sedative, and Caylee refused or kept spitting it out. Could Casey have duct taped Caylee's mouth to keep the pill in until it dissolved? Between crying and possibly even vomiting, Casey could have aspirated. And then Casey could have put the heart sticker on the tape as a way to say, "Ooops, sorry sweetie" and then gone out partying?

Possible?

I call that murder One!

DP

 

[Roze]

I had a wild thought yesterday, and I'm not saying I believe this happened, but in case anyone wants to discuss it:

What if Casey were attempting to get Caylee to swallow a pill, some type of sedative, and Caylee refused or kept spitting it out. Could Casey have duct taped Caylee's mouth to keep the pill in until it dissolved? Between crying and possibly even vomiting, Casey could have aspirated. And then Casey could have put the heart sticker on the tape as a way to say, "Ooops, sorry sweetie" and then gone out partying?

That's interesting but I don't think she would have wrapped the duct tape as securely as we have heard she did, and risked getting it in her hair and then having to pull it off.

 

[Chilly Willy]

That's interesting but I don't think she would have wrapped the duct tape as securely as we have heard she did, and risked getting it in her hair and then having to pull it off.

I thought about that too, but if Casey was angry at the time and knew Caylee would be sedated when the tape was removed, maybe it wasn't a concern.

 

[RainyGirl]

I had a wild thought yesterday, and I'm not saying I believe this happened, but in case anyone wants to discuss it:

What if Casey were attempting to get Caylee to swallow a pill, some type of sedative, and Caylee refused or kept spitting it out. Could Casey have duct taped Caylee's mouth to keep the pill in until it dissolved? Between crying and possibly even vomiting, Casey could have aspirated. And then Casey could have put the heart sticker on the tape as a way to say, "Ooops, sorry sweetie" and then gone out partying?

A horrific scenario, for sure......but I have thought about this, as well.
The image of it sends ((shudders)) down my spine.

I feel pretty strongly that some type of drug---whether prescription, non-prescription, 'club drug', or other---is going to be revealed in toxicology reports. Perhaps that's another reason for the defense to try and withhold photographs?? Evidence of overt, illegal drug usage?

 

[Chilly Willy]

Someone pointed out to me that if they try to argue an accident and have to explain the duct tape they could say something as far fetched as "Casey knew she was going to put her in the woods and wanted to keep any bugs from crawling into her mouth, even if she was dead." It's really teh only far fetched excuse I could imagine for someone putting duct tape on someone's mouth after they already died. Do you think this could actually fly?

You know, that's not really that far-fetched, IMO. How can we possibly know what goes through the mind of a mother who just murdered her 2 year old daughter? There has to be some reason Casey put the tape over Caylee's mouth.