A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[Mereille]

Mods please delete if this is inappropriate -I am not sure if i am allowed to link to other blogs etc - but this interested me immensely and has pretty much sealed Caseys guilt of first degree murder.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/20...source-and-weve-got-world-exclusive-excerpts/

This was posted in January 22nd - weeks before the story broke of the "diary of days" when she writes that the end justifies the means - it suggests that the diary was definitely written in 2008 and that LE are withholding ALOT of KEY information about this case - if this is true then this pretty much slam dunks the case against KC.

 

[weasel]

At first, I leaned more towards accidental. But with all the info. coming out now, I am confident this was premeditated murder. Out of her own mouth she says "maybe I'm just a vindictive b*tch" or something like that. I remember saying when this case first broke, that girl killed her baby to spite her own mother. And I believe that to be the truth.

 

[Jolynna]

My guess is that KC falls into category of doing stupid suff when in a rage.

On this occasion she was generally mad at her own situation, possibly specifically in a rage over argument with Cindy. I think the flurry of calls were failed attempts to organise a sitter. Perhaps Caylee was crying/acting up and KC lost it! Possibly drugged Caylee, but certainly taped her mouth and arms and legs, and threw her in the trunk before heading to Tony's. She probably got so wrapped up in the liaison and/or doped up, that she left Caylee and later found her dead.

So...
NOT premeditated as in planned in advance, but certainly no Accident either.

I do not think under my proposed scenario, you can define it as premeditated murder, but certainly deserving of the full penalty of the law, and even DP if sought.

The tape was put over Caylee's hair.

Casey couldn't get the duct tape off without cutting Caylee's hair and possibly taking off skin. Those facts show Casey's actions were meant to be final.

By 4:30 p.m. Casey was meeting up with Tony at his apartment sans Caylee. Caylee wouldn't have lasted in the trunk in Florida until June 17.

If Casey drugged Caylee, bound and gagged her and locked her in a car trunk to die, that's murder one.

 

[warbuckle]

I still think it was accidental and then she tried to make it look like a kidnapping.

 

[Seebra]

Mods please delete if this is inappropriate -I am not sure if i am allowed to link to other blogs etc - but this interested me immensely and has pretty much sealed Caseys guilt of first degree murder.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/20...source-and-weve-got-world-exclusive-excerpts/

This was posted in January 22nd - weeks before the story broke of the "diary of days" when she writes that the end justifies the means - it suggests that the diary was definitely written in 2008 and that LE are withholding ALOT of KEY information about this case - if this is true then this pretty much slam dunks the case against KC.

If this is true - which I now wonder if those ripped out pages in the diary picture were actually ripped out by LE (makes you wonder, yes?) and not KC...

Well, I've known she murdered that sweet baby girl all along and that it was intentional and heartless and the act of a cowardly monster...

but I do believe that this can be witheld from public eye, and this is the type of bombshell that I was asking about in my bombshell at trial thread.

RIM, Casey. (rest in misery) You deserve nothing more than to suffer every day of your disgusting life.

 

[Seebra]

I still think it was accidental and then she tried to make it look like a kidnapping.

What on Earth makes you believe this could be accidental?

I am just trying to understand this point of view, nothing personal. But if you have read every piece of evidence in the case, and watched KC herself and how she acted, put together the searches for neck breaking and chloroform, and throw in the fact that she was at Blockbuster renting "Untraceable" that very evening...

HOw could you think it was an accident? What leads you to this conclusion?

 

[Rumpole]

What on Earth makes you believe this could be accidental?

I am just trying to understand this point of view, nothing personal. But if you have read every piece of evidence in the case, and watched KC herself and how she acted, put together the searches for neck breaking and chloroform, and throw in the fact that she was at Blockbuster renting "Untraceable" that very evening...

HOw could you think it was an accident? What leads you to this conclusion?

I agree.

Accident is the least likely explanation.

Personally I do not favour a detailed pre-meditated plan either.

I think an angry, spur of the moment thing, but still a vicious act, well beyond definition as "manslaughter"

 

[natsound]

I agree.

Accident is the least likely explanation.

Personally I do not favour a detailed pre-meditated plan either.

I think an angry, spur of the moment thing, but still a vicious act, well beyond definition as "manslaughter"

With the internet searches back in March 2008, I think KC toyed with the idea of killing someone for a few months, but she wasn't sure who she wanted to knock off... CA? GA? And on that day, it just happened to be Caylee.

 

[Rumpole]

With the internet searches back in March 2008, I think KC toyed with the idea of killing someone for a few months, but she wasn't sure who she wanted to knock off... CA? GA? And on that day, it just happened to be Caylee.

I do not see internet searches as indicative of any serious thought.
I really think LP had a moment of brilliance when he described KC as living 10 minutes at a time.
I don't see a plan to kill anybody.

 

[eddeva]

i have seen nothing, zero, zip, zilch, rien, nichts, niente, nil, nada, niets to give me any reason of any kind to think this was an accident.

call me old fashioned, call it women's intuition, call it a gut feeling, call me silly and spank me sideways, but i don't think this was a suicide.

what does that leave?

 

[ibyoungr]

What is a smothering called? I think she SMOTHERED that baby. Especially after seeing the August 14th video.
I guess smothering is premeditated if she in a split second said to herself while clinching her fists and gritting her teeth.. grabbing a pillow... "If you do not stop crying.. I'll make you stop..just shut... just shut up... just stop it now."

 

[Rumpole]

What is a smothering called? I think she SMOTHERED that baby. Especially after seeing the August 14th video.
I guess smothering is premeditated if she in a split second said to herself while clinching her fists and gritting her teeth.. grabbing a pillow... "If you do not stop crying.. I'll make you stop..just shut... just shut up... just stop it now."

I would not call smothering an accident
It could be premeditated and planned for a long time, but if it was, I would expect a better plan than driving around with a body in the trunk for 3 days, so if it was smothering, it was spur of the moment.
I dare say the defense could argue "manslaughter" in that case, but I would think it ranked as a heinous act, and first degree murder?

 

[ibyoungr]

I would not call smothering an accident
It could be premeditated and planned for a long time, but if it was, I would expect a better plan than driving around with a body in the trunk for 3 days, so if it was smothering, it was spur of the moment.
I dare say the defense could argue "manslaughter" in that case, but I would think it ranked as a heinous act, and first degree murder?

Smothering is definitely not an accident and usually is done in the spur of the moment in fillicide but in Casey's Handy Handybook of Little and Big Fat Lies..the definition would be this:

smoth·er·ing: verb
1. the act of a pillow falling off the bed and being shoved in a face by a imaginanny

or in my book.....

smoth·er·ing:
1. the lack of mothering

 

[Rumpole]

Smothering is definitely not an accident and usually is done in the spur of the moment in fillicide but in Casey's Handy Handybook of Little and Big Fat Lies..the definition would be this:

smoth·er·ing: verb
1. the act of a pillow falling off the bed and being shoved in a face by a imaginanny

or in my book.....

smoth·er·ing:
1. the lack of mothering

Surely smothering is a guess?
Why the duct tape afterwards then?

 

[eddeva]

Surely smothering is a guess?
Why the duct tape afterwards then?

maybe the duct tape came before but darn it she could still hear her.

 

[Rumpole]

Smothering is still a guess.

 

[Devon]

Smothering is still a guess.

As is every other theory that has so far been suggested. Of the available clues and evidence, so much can either be woven together, or very reasonably explained away and excluded, depending on the theoriser's personal beliefs, opinions and bias.

 

[ibyoungr]

Surely smothering is a guess?
Why the duct tape afterwards then?

Because she could not get caught with a smothered baby.... a drowned baby.. why not call 911? Drugging.. very risky... live baby in the trunk.... very risky. Cholorform only works for a little bit. If she tape her mouth prior to drugging.. then she would be careful that it would be able to come off after Caylee woke up. Have you ever seen a baby kick and scream? Even with tape, Caylee could have made muffled sounds and a ruckus with her feet by kicking the trunk lid.

Casey spent her days spinning lies. Building some upon others that she started months before.

As OSCO documentation shows, she had already had a "fake nanny".
for the past 2 years. If she did not already have a lie about the nanny or the sitter.. then she could not have "blamed it on the nanny." She also already had the lie in place about "working."

Once she was done smothering the baby, and realized what she had done... She would simply blame it on the nanny kidnapping her. She purposely does not place the tape on Caylee's mouth carefully. After all, that is what a kidnapper would do. Right? However, she put the sticker on the mouth because it was "mommy's kiss." She had to be at Tony's soon. She knew she had to continue to act "normal" and carry on. If not, nobody would believe her "nanny kidnapping" story. Even in this scenario, she could have just stuck Caylee in the trunk -dead and taped her mouth and bagged the baby on the 17th and/or 18th. Of course, after getting ideas from her movie watching.


If she had a smothered baby at home, then she had to keep it from EVERYONE. Because then it would blow her lie about working and having a nanny. This also covers the no shoes and the doll in the car. If she drugged caylee and put her in the car.. why not put the doll in there with her?

Drugging a baby and putting her in the trunk is risky business. She would not have been so carefree with Tone and BB or the apt watching KIDNAPPING MOVIES. Tone not once in his interviews, after the police found chloroform was he asked if she went to her car that night during the movie, after the movie, etc.. She was carefree because.. everyone lives - everyone dies. Caylee was gone and she could do nothing about it. Her "Nanny did it" alibi was already in place in her mind. Might as well enjoy herself. Besides if her mother would have only watched her and not kicked them out... Caylee would not be dead. She actual feels a sense of freedom now both from Caylee and her mother.

Evidence shows she ramped up the "Caylee is with the nanny" story after June 16th with her mother, Amy, Jesse, Ryan, Tone... she could have easily kept telling Amy, Jesse, Tone and friends that Caylee was with her mom and her mom put her in a DAYCARE. She ramped up the story because if she did it caught.. her nanny kidnapping story was in place.

 

[newuser]

I don't believe the kidnapping story was planned out way ahead of time. I don't believe it was even invented in detail for the famous 31 days. I think it was just a slap in the dark, and as she told it, she created it. She's a good liar, and has no trouble keeping her lies going.

 

[Devon]

I don't believe the kidnapping story was planned out way ahead of time. I don't believe it was even invented in detail for the famous 31 days. I think it was just a slap in the dark, and as she told it, she created it. She's a good liar, and has no trouble keeping her lies going.

I agree with you.