A pregnant man ?

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Nocgirl, I find your comments extremely rude. Mr. Beatie may have been born a female, but he now lives as a male. Some people cannot afford to have sexual reassignment surgery, and others opt not to for other reasons. But that doesn't mean they are any less of a person. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be treated with respect for who they are on the inside AND outside. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be recognized as who they want to be. The internal struggle most transgenders face is tremendous. And for someone to call them the opposite gender from what they are presenting as is extremely hurtful. I'm not trying to attack you. You have the right to your opinion. You don't have to agree with me that it is normal or okay or whatever. But please try and show some respect for Mr. Beatie, other transgenders out there in the world, and any who may be reading here at Websleuths.

On that note, today is Transgender Day of Remembrance. I thought it was appropriate to mention here because Mr. Beatie is transgender. If you are one that is not educated about transgenders, the struggles they face, and other things, please take this time to learn.

www.nctequality.org
http://www.gendertalk.com/info/resource/index.shtml

 

[MrsSimon]

I agree so much with this.

Now that there are more supporters of this family and transgenders in general, it seems those against them (or those who thought it was 'yucky') have disappeared.

I'm still here and I still think it's bizarre.

 

[youshouldveknown]

She is a very butch lesbian who should not be able to be legally recognized as a male without completing sex reassignment surgery.


I'm offended by this and I'm neither a lesbian or transgender.

'Butch'? Couldn't you have said 'lesbian with masculine features'?

There is a huge difference between a lesbian who has masculine features and a transgender. If you don't know those differences, google it.

No one here is trying to change anyone's opinions. I can only speak for myself, but I'm an advocate of curiosity, of tolerance and of understanding. The first page in this thread shows none of that. Insinuating that a transgender is nothing more than a 'very butch lesbian' is just plain ignorant.

This is science based on fact. Just because he was born a woman, has female chromosomes and has the ability to carry a baby does not mean he doesn't feel like he should have been born a man. He's undergone therapy AND SRS. Legally, he is a man.

How many of us have actually researched SRS and transgenderism since first reading this thread? I'm curious.

 

[capoly]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm an advocate of curiosity, of tolerance and of understanding.

(my bold,snip)


I believe that. Tolerance and understanding are 2 tough double-edged attributes.

 

[reportertype]

Comments on the first page about how disgusting Thomas B. is are not dialogue IMO. How does one debate that?

 

[southcitymom]

.....I am curious about one thing. I, even with my negative slant, find it demeaning that this thread is in the 'Bizarre and Off-Beat' Forum. I'm puzzled as to why those with a positive slant haven't requested the thread be relocated. 'Bizarre and Off-Beat' tends to work against acceptance.

I think it's fair that a story about a man giving birth for the second time to end up in the Bizarre and Off-Beat section. It is strange and not something we read about every day.

For me, bizarre and off-beat means just that - off the beaten path. It doesn't feel like a negative forum - just a place where we might stretch ourselves to look at things outside the realm of normal.

Being transgendered is, of course, not normal - normal is what most folks do and most folks aren't transgendered. For me, but not for everyone, it's morally and ethically neutral - another shade of the rainbow spectrum of human sexuality that makes things so interesting.

 

[capoly]

Comments on the first page about how disgusting Thomas B. is are not dialogue IMO. How does one debate that?

dialogue: a discussion between representatives of parties to a conflict that is aimed at resolution <a constructive dialogue between loggers and environmentalists>

debate: to engage in argument by discussing opposing points


Not being a smart-aleck by posting the definitions- just they say what I would have but in far less time....one hand keyboarding is very slow.

I didn't quite understand your question at first...didn't think I'd condoned any derogatory behavior or used the word debate. But in re-reading my previous post I see it was incorrect for me to use the word dialogue when referring to previous pages of posts.

Since it is real slow going here today...will just cut & paste previous post....bolded is what's addressed .

"Opposing beliefs co-exist peacefully & respectfully in thousands of situations largely due to open dialogue. If dialogue can't get pass the 'believe as I do' stage than negativity continues to cycle."

Well, that sentence is just plain wrong..... there was no dialogue in place for anything to get pass. Your comment above.... "Comments on the first page about how disgusting Thomas B. is are not dialogue" is correct.

"So, IMO, the absence of constructive dialogue in this thread is sadder than the presence of any destructive dialogue. The only thing changed from the first page to the present page is the dominating belief......that's of no benefit to the issue at hand."

Again wrong..........looks like my thoughts were focused on the constructive/destructive aspect.

As to your question How does one debate that? .....Is debate the way to go?

You are standing up for the acceptance and understanding of Individuals facing transgender issues because it is a present day societal issue. You're able to take your stance & this issue is able to be discussed because past generations of people stood up to the societal issues of their day. But most present day issues tend to affect small portions of the population. Aside from forming an opinion the majority of the general population aren't going to put much effort into these issues.

Perhaps, in a forum of 14,000+ people, it might be of benefit to this issue if others were encouraged to post of their experiences when standing up for an issue of importance to them?

 

[capoly]

I think it's fair that a story about a man giving birth for the second time to end up in the Bizarre and Off-Beat section. It is strange and not something we read about every day.

For me, bizarre and off-beat means just that - off the beaten path. It doesn't feel like a negative forum - just a place where we might stretch ourselves to look at things outside the realm of normal.

Being transgendered is, of course, not normal - normal is what most folks do and most folks aren't transgendered. For me, but not for everyone, it's morally and ethically neutral - another shade of the rainbow spectrum of human sexuality that makes things so interesting.

(my bold)


One finger typing today...so if it seems like words are missing...they probably are.

Do like your thought and wording.

I've been using the Internet for 14 years but it wasn't untill joining Websleuths that I realized how it can and does affect peoples lives. If this thread within this forum could only be viewed by some ...and if the Internet did not have the ability to place these pages in a time capsule...than I not only like your thought and wording, I also agree. But this thread and forum can be viewed by thousands.....and cached by sites like Google, making it available for viewing by another generation.

These are some of the thread titles here in B&OB Forum:
Caught in the act of romancing a vaccuum..
Corpse on Toilet Case
Ind. inmates sneak through ceiling to have sex
Crime mime....or killer?
90 Year old Women Found Living with 3 dead siblings
Family Cremated Mom On BBQ Grill
tiny faces in broccoli
The "stink" when you break wind controls blood pressure?
Man Finds Mouse Baked Into Bread

I'm just not seeing the connection between the above threads and this thread.

My beliefs don't blind me to the fact that 2 babies are involved. It does disturb me to think that present or future searches could bring up the B&OB Forum with this thread included with those above.


It took me close to an hour to type this!..... hands are bad tonight.....I'll do it for 2 babies....but not for no corpse on a toilet or fool violating a vaccuum LOL

 

[youshouldveknown]

(my bold,snip)


I believe that. Tolerance and understanding are 2 tough double-edged attributes.

How is that?

 

[youshouldveknown]

The only thing changed from the first page to the present page is the dominating belief......



I don't agree with this. We've been able to use logic and have sources for our information. These aren't just our opinions. It's evidence based.

I personally have provided a link on situational transgender etiquite. I'm not sure how many actually took a look at it, but seeing as there is still a pronoun issue in this thread, it could use some more hits.

As far as whether or not you believe Mr. Beatie is a man or a woman, it's quite simple. I've stated this several times. Biologically, he is a woman. Yes, he still has female chromosomes and if you were to look at his DNA, it would show that of a woman. Spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically, legally, and socially, Mr. Beatie is a man.

To me, it's 6 to 1. Male wins. Plus, out of sheer respect for humanity and other people's feelings, if he says he's a man, I'm going to call him 'sir.' Whether he's pregnant or not.

 

[capoly]

The only thing changed from the first page to the present page is the dominating belief......



I don't agree with this. We've been able to use logic and have sources for our information. These aren't just our opinions. It's evidence based.

I personally have provided a link on situational transgender etiquite. I'm not sure how many actually took a look at it, but seeing as there is still a pronoun issue in this thread, it could use some more hits.

As far as whether or not you believe Mr. Beatie is a man or a woman, it's quite simple. I've stated this several times. Biologically, he is a woman. Yes, he still has female chromosomes and if you were to look at his DNA, it would show that of a woman. Spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically, legally, and socially, Mr. Beatie is a man.

To me, it's 6 to 1. Male wins. Plus, out of sheer respect for humanity and other people's feelings, if he says he's a man, I'm going to call him 'sir.' Whether he's pregnant or not.

The only thing changed from the first page to the present page is the dominating belief

First page the dominating belief of one group of posters was negative.

Present page (at time of posting)the dominating belief of a different set of posters was positive.

...it's a twain thing.

 

[capoly]

How is that?

Still typing with one s-l-o-w finger so c&ping most of the time.

Attribute: A quality or characteristic inherent in or ascribed to someone or something.

Tolerance: The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others......and Understand(ing): To grasp or comprehend the meaning intended or expressed by (another)......are attributes.

Tough: Requiring mental effort to accomplish or comprehend or endure.
Double-edged: Capable of being interpreted in two usually contradictory ways.
........ tolerance and understanding are often 'tough-tested' by two contradictory sources.

Hence the comment:
"Tolerance and understanding are 2 tough double-edged attributes."

If these double edged attributes exist than...
Balance: The difference in magnitude between opposing forces or influences.
is the goal.

Balance promotes the growth of tolerance and understanding in others.

IMO of course.

 

[nomad]

Hello~ I'm one that doesn't particularly care to see the pictures that have been making the rounds. Pregnancy is feminine, at least shave the beard while posing for the pregnant pictures? No offense, but it looks like a modern day side show to me, imo. but I'm sure they're great people!... Cheers!

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

I personally have provided a link on situational transgender etiquite. I'm not sure how many actually took a look at it, but seeing as there is still a pronoun issue in this thread, it could use some more hits.

Respectfully snipped. Both you and I have provided links, but it is apparent that no one (or very few) have taken the time or cared enough to look at them. Most are just using their time to continue to be rude, or to give us dictionary definitions. Maybe if those people used that time to become educated about the issue, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Nobody here is saying "believe as I do". At least speaking for myself, I don't care what you believe. Just stop being rude. Stop degrading this man and his family. At least make an ATTEMPT to understand his situation and what must have been a horribly painful internal struggle for him. Ignorance is not an excuse. Educate yourself. No, it's not "normal" or "common", but that doesn't make it disgusting or wrong. You don't have to like it, but the rudeness and intolerance needs to stop.

 

[youshouldveknown]

The only thing changed from the first page to the present page is the dominating belief

First page the dominating belief of one group of posters was negative.

Present page (at time of posting)the dominating belief of a different set of posters was positive.

...it's a twain thing.

Thanks, but I got that part.

I don't agree that it's the ONLY difference between the two. For the reasons I stated in my last post.

And in regards to your last post, I'm not stupid. I don't need a lesson in vocabulary. I will agree, though, that balance is important in understanding, but in the same way, curiousity and understanding can go hand in hand. And they can lead to tolerance. You hate what you fear. And you fear the unknown.

This theory, of course, does not work on cockroaches. I've tried. They're still creepy.

 

[youshouldveknown]

Respectfully snipped. Both you and I have provided links, but it is apparent that no one (or very few) have taken the time or cared enough to look at them. Most are just using their time to continue to be rude, or to give us dictionary definitions. Maybe if those people used that time to become educated about the issue, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Nobody here is saying "believe as I do". At least speaking for myself, I don't care what you believe. Just stop being rude. Stop degrading this man and his family. At least make an ATTEMPT to understand his situation and what must have been a horribly painful internal struggle for him. Ignorance is not an excuse. Educate yourself. No, it's not "normal" or "common", but that doesn't make it disgusting or wrong. You don't have to like it, but the rudeness and intolerance needs to stop.

I agree wholeheartedly. I can't tell anyone what to believe. But I can only offer evidenced based fact to help encourage education. That's all I've done. That's part of debating.

 

[youshouldveknown]

Hello~ I'm one that doesn't particularly care to see the pictures that have been making the rounds. Pregnancy is feminine, at least shave the beard while posing for the pregnant pictures? No offense, but it looks like a modern day side show to me, imo. but I'm sure they're great people!... Cheers!

Why should he shave his beard? It's his face, and his body. He's being incredibly, and admirably, honest in all of this. It isn't a show for him. It's life, and he's showing America what it's like.

That's just my opinion, though. But just because pregnancy is feminine doesn't mean he has to revert back to womanhood.

 

[nomad]

I just don't think men should get pregnant. If they do, they should shave.

 

[PattyCake]

education is great. same sex marriage I celebrate for they are happy people living happy lives. defining and redefining marriage, couples, gender is also okay. THis, sorry to say, is NOT okay and it disgusts me. I believe it disgusts me more because there is a book deal and they're doing the 'tour' of the second coming. They're motives seem very financial and quite possibly that's what is disgusting me more than a transgender woman / man being pregnant. Although there truly is a mental health issue there too. If she wanted to be a man, MEN don't have children or give birth.

 

[capoly]

Thanks, but I got that part.

I don't agree that it's the ONLY difference between the two. For the reasons I stated in my last post.

And in regards to your last post, I'm not stupid. I don't need a lesson in vocabulary. I will agree, though, that balance is important in understanding, but in the same way, curiousity and understanding can go hand in hand. And they can lead to tolerance. You hate what you fear. And you fear the unknown.

This theory, of course, does not work on cockroaches. I've tried. They're still creepy.

I am sorry you viewed my post as a lesson. It was not. You asked me "How is that?" in regards to a sentence I wrote. I was explaining my sentence.

I also wrote "Still typing with one s-l-o-w finger so c&ping most of the time."
c&p=copying and pasting. And since what I was posting pertained to me....I used the easiest method to explain.

I have no idea why you are bringing up hate and fear. There is nothing in Mr. Beati's life that could evoke hate or fear in me. And there is certainly nothing in my posts that suggest a hate for, or fear of, him.

It is incorrect...and arrogant....for someone to determine that holding a differing belief on reproduction negates any knowledge, understanding or acceptance of Individuals with transgendered issues. My knowledge is such that I can say with confidence....rarely are Individuals with transgender issues antagonists.

As I've posted before....I wish the Beati family well.