A twister?

[BBB167893]

I knew what it was. I've studied military assassination campaigns. I've read the books on the Mafia. Anyone who has seen The Godfather would know the basics.

Plus, John was stationed in the Phillipines during the anti-Marcos insurrection. Garrotes were a common weapon among the regime and its enemies. Add to that, the Phillipines used to be a Spanish colony and Spanish has been widely integrated into the Filipino language.

 

[Ames]

Thanks, Ames. You may be right...With the R's they were constantly contradicting themselves... Who knows what to believe!!!???

Here it is...

9 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd
10 given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We
11 were giving Burke a bike but not that year.
12 Anyway, there was a bike that we put in their
13 basement, and I gone over after the kids went to
14 bed to get it to put it under the tree. And Joe
15 went down to the garage and went down to get it
16 and brought it up. I offered to go get it and he
17 said no, he'd go get it himself. I don't know
18 where it specifically was, whether it was actually
19 in his garage or his basement.
20 LOU SMIT: You know, I've looked at a lot
21 of pictures in regards to this particular case and
22 I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened
23 to the bikes?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, they were in the garage,
25 I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment
0065
1 outside before we went to the White's; just round
2 the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage.
3 Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in
4 the garage. I don't remember.
5 LOU SMIT: Have you seen it since, Patsy's
6 bike?

So, she wasn't confined to her room all day long. And she DID get to ride her bike..for a little while.

 

[angelwngs]

Thank You, Ames!! Just goes to show you,,,never trust what an R says...as fact...They'll say it different a half a dozen times after...

 

[Ames]

Thank You, Ames!! Just goes to show you,,,never trust what an R says...as fact...They'll say it different a half a dozen times after...

You are welcome! That picture of JB and Patsy grasping her arm, was taken Christmas morning, and JB didn't look sick to me. She was smiling..and looked happy. Patsy, on the other hand look to me as if she had been crying, her face was all red, and her eyes swollen, but that could have been from being up all night putting out Santa. IMO...IF Patsy stated that JB was sick and in her room all day long, it would be for the exact same reason that they said that she came home ASLEEP and that John carried her in and put her in the bed...and that was the last time that they saw her alive. JB being in her room ALL DAY LONG, gives them an excuse as to not having to explain her every move to authorities. I do want to add that in Patsy's interview she says that JB had been playing with some other children that day, and had an accident. She said this to explain the pants that were left on JB's floor. So, right there...she admits that JB played that day with other children, and John admits that she DID ride her bike for a short time...ON THE PATIO. So, was she in her room all day, because she was sick...OR NOT? So many inconsistancies.

Edited to add...I am not a fan of John's obviously...but, to be fair, he did say that he regretted not going for a bike ride with JB, not that she didn't ride her bike at all.

 

[angelwngs]

You are welcome! That picture of JB and Patsy grasping her arm, was taken Christmas morning, and JB didn't look sick to me. She was smiling..and looked happy. Patsy, on the other hand look to me as if she had been crying, her face was all red, and her eyes swollen, but that could have been from being up all night putting out Santa. IMO...IF Patsy stated that JB was sick and in her room all day long, it would be for the exact same reason that they said that she came home ASLEEP and that John carried her in and put her in the bed...and that was the last time that they saw her alive. JB being in her room ALL DAY LONG, gives them an excuse as to not having to explain her every move to authorities. I do want to add that in Patsy's interview she says that JB had been playing with some other children that day, and had an accident. She said this to explain the pants that were left on JB's floor. So, right there...she admits that JB played that day with other children, and John admits that she DID ride her bike for a short time...ON THE PATIO. So, was she in her room all day, because she was sick...OR NOT? So many inconsistancies.

Edited to add...I am not a fan of John's obviously...but, to be fair, he did say that he regretted not going for a bike ride with JB, not that she didn't ride her bike at all.

Good point!

 

[Ames]

4 TOM HANEY: How about JonBenet's
5 room, what was the condition of the room?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I remember
7 racing over and her door was just kind of
8 slightly ajar.
9 TOM HANEY: And you're
10 demonstrating what, three--
11 PATSY RAMSEY: 3, 4 inches, you
12 know.
13 TOM HANEY: Okay. Is that the way
14 you left it the night before?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, that's usually
16 the way I left it.
17 TOM HANEY: And is there a
18 particular reason?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I closed it
20 because if I did leave a light on out here, it
21 would shine pretty brightly into her room so I
22 close to make it a little darker in there. But
23 I want to leave it so if she needed me or called
24 out or something I could hear her, you know.
25 TOM HANEY: So that was the normal
0026
1 thing?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: That was the normal
3 thing to do.


WOW, just WOW! So, this intruder, along with being so kind as to put the Sharpie pen back in its holder, and replacing the grate back the way he found it, and being so neat that he didn't even leave so much as a fiber....ALSO...managed to push the door closed...leaving 3 or 4 inches of it opened, just as Patsy always left it, all while carrying JB. Not only HOW did he do this, but more importantly is WHY?

 

[Ames]

Good point!

I have read where JB was said to have been in her room sick on Christmas day, but I can't remember where I read it. Do you know? Where did you hear or read that from? Because according to this 98 interview of Patsy's...JB played outside with some friends.

24 THOMAS HANEY: And was there like a
25 separate menu then, items for the kids, they
0171
1 didn't have like less --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Like hamburgers here
3 and lobster there? I don't know.
4 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, kids --
5 PATSY RAMSEY: I really can't
6 remember.
7 THOMAS HANEY: Crab, we have got
8 that.
9 You said the Whites previously
10 rented or lived in the house right by you,
11 right? Who was living in that house at that
12 time, did you know those people?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean who they
14 had rented from?
15 THOMAS HANEY: Who was living in
16 that house on Christmas '96?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, gee, I don't
18 know. I don't know -- I don't know. Somebody
19 was, and they had children and the children
20 came.
21 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: And these, the one
23 little girl had a kind of darker complexion and
24 the other little girl was a little heavier set.
25 I think one of them's name was Mary, but that's
0172
1 the first time we really met them.
2 THOMAS HANEY: But they were over
3 sometime on Christmas --
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
5 THOMAS HANEY: -- to play.
6 Who else did JonBenet play with on
7 Christmas in the daytime, just kind of
8 separating time frames here?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she and Burke
10 played, Burke played with the Coby kids and
11 these little girls. And then of course we went
12 to the Whites and she and Daphne played with
13 Burke.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, but before you
15 went to the Whites.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Went to the Whites?
17 Well, it would have been, you know, mostly --
18 TRIP DeMUTH: The Coby kids?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: -- the Coby kids.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Which ones?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Kai and Evan.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: And these two little
23 girls from up the street?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: That were in the
25 house that Fleet and Priscilla used to live.
0173
1 TRIP DeMUTH: So that's -- what
2 about Luke Vermiere, or Luke from across the
3 street?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Big Luke? No.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: He didn't come over
6 that day.
7 Can you remember any other kids
8 that day, Christmas Day, before you go to the
9 Whites?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: I imagine they are
12 playing with their toys and showing each other
13 what they got?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Most of the
15 little kids around were Burke's friends.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: So pretty much that's
17 who you remember?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: And who did JonBenet
20 play with of those kids?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: With -- well, they
22 were all kind of playing together. You know,
23 they were outside. Then they would all come in
24 and she was making little jewelry things and I
25 sat and played with her doing the jewelry
0174
1 things. And she was in her room, she was making
2 a little pot holder kind of thing, I think.
3 Those little moving kind of things, you know.

 

[DeeDee249]

And of course, we are all familiar with the red plastic potholder loom, seen on JBR's dresser next to her bed. I have always thought the "scattered hairties" on the floor were actually the little stretchy fabric loops from the potholder kit. They still sell those looms today- they've been around since I was a kid in the '50s. To someone not familiar with them, those loops would seem to be hairties.

As far as what JBR wore to the White's- I don't think the red jumpsuit was among the choices. JBR had been in a little Christmas dance performance at a local mall and all the girls (I assume these were children from her dance school) wore the red jumpsuits. I believe they are those stretchy, Danskin-type outfits and not actual street clothes. PR has admitted to arguing with JBR about wearing the red turtleneck (to match the one PR wore under her Holiday fleece jacket). Both mother and daughter wore black velvet jeans. PR wore a red turtleneck and the fleece sweater/jacket over it. JBR wore either the white Gap shirt or the red turtleneck, depending on whose version you believe. Investigators do know the truth. They have seen photos taken at the White's that day so they do know exactly what JBR wore.

 

[Ames]

And of course, we are all familiar with the red plastic potholder loom, seen on JBR's dresser next to her bed. I have always thought the "scattered hairties" on the floor were actually the little stretchy fabric loops from the potholder kit. They still sell those looms today- they've been around since I was a kid in the '50s. To someone not familiar with them, those loops would seem to be hairties.

As far as what JBR wore to the White's- I don't think the red jumpsuit was among the choices. JBR had been in a little Christmas dance performance at a local mall and all the girls (I assume these were children from her dance school) wore the red jumpsuits. I believe they are those stretchy, Danskin-type outfits and not actual street clothes. PR has admitted to arguing with JBR about wearing the red turtleneck (to match the one PR wore under her Holiday fleece jacket). Both mother and daughter wore black velvet jeans. PR wore a red turtleneck and the fleece sweater/jacket over it. JBR wore either the white Gap shirt or the red turtleneck, depending on whose version you believe. Investigators do know the truth. They have seen photos taken at the White's that day so they do know exactly what JBR wore.

ST saw the pictures taken at the White's party, and he said that she WAS wearing the Gap shirt (with no turtleneck underneath), at the party. For once, Patsy told the truth. I don't believe that she wore it to bed that night, though. I think that she wore the red turtleneck to bed...as Patsy ORIGINALLY stated, before changing her story. Probably to save time the next morning.

 

[DeeDee249]

ST saw the pictures taken at the White's party, and he said that she WAS wearing the Gap shirt (with no turtleneck underneath), at the party. For once, Patsy told the truth. I don't believe that she wore it to bed that night, though. I think that she wore the red turtleneck to bed...as Patsy ORIGINALLY stated, before changing her story. Probably to save time the next morning.

I thought I remembered him saying that in his book (about it being the white shirt after all).

 

[angelwngs]

I thought I remembered him saying that in his book (about it being the white shirt after all).

Lord help me. I didn't. (A mind is a terrible thing to see drifting away, especially when it's your own!)

 

[JMO8778]

Thanks, Ames. You may be right...With the R's they were constantly contradicting themselves... Who knows what to believe!!!???

I think it was also said JB was sitting outside BR's room (while he was playing nintendo w his friends,maybe they wouldn't let her in..),making jewelry from a craft kit she go for Christmas.
one 1/2 dozen or the other,as far as what she was doing..

 

[JMO8778]

Here it is...

9 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd
10 given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We
11 were giving Burke a bike but not that year.
12 Anyway, there was a bike that we put in their
13 basement, and I gone over after the kids went to
14 bed to get it to put it under the tree. And Joe
15 went down to the garage and went down to get it
16 and brought it up. I offered to go get it and he
17 said no, he'd go get it himself. I don't know
18 where it specifically was, whether it was actually
19 in his garage or his basement.
20 LOU SMIT: You know, I've looked at a lot
21 of pictures in regards to this particular case and
22 I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened
23 to the bikes?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, they were in the garage,
25 I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment
0065
1 outside before we went to the White's; just round
2 the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage.
3 Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in
4 the garage. I don't remember.
5 LOU SMIT: Have you seen it since, Patsy's
6 bike?

So, she wasn't confined to her room all day long. And she DID get to ride her bike..for a little while.

I also recall reading somewhere she was told *not to take her bike out bf going to the White's,but she did anyway.this perhaps one more reason someone was becoming angry w her;they saw a defiance in her,and could no longer control her?
In DOI,JR says she wanted to ride it that morning,but BR suggested something else,so they did that instead.odd that JR would even mention that,though.

 

[JMO8778]

EXACTLY! John and Patsy BOTH (in their 98 interviews) state that they thought that it was ODD that PW saved out that crack crab for JB. And as you have bolded in your post...JOHN ASKED PW TO DO THAT! So, its not all that weird or odd at all.... Also, John and Patsy's statement about it being strange, or odd...were the same. WORD FOR WORD, almost like it had been rehearsed. Over at FFJ, I posted their statements together....one right after the other, and they were identical. I will try and dig it up again.

I found it...Patsy even thought that it was strange that PW mentioned JB by name, when talking about saving out the crack crab....nevermind that JOHN ASKED PW TO DO IT.
-----------------------------------------------
Now tell me that John and Patsy didn't discuss this before their interviews...



From PR's 98 Interview...


23 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. But you do remember the
24 cracked crab.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember Priscilla had
0492
1 dip and she said, I know your kids like seafood. I
2 will hold this little plate out for JonBenet to make
3 sure she gets some.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: You remember that.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember that. Well, I
6 thought that is nice to make sure that we don't devour
7 it before the kids get some, but she specifically
8 mentioned JonBenet's name. And at that time it kind
9 of, you know, flew over. But then when you are trying
10 to remember things later, it seems, you know, a little
11 strange.



So, Patsy ended up thinking that it was "strange" too. I am quite sure that John and Patsy discussed this beforehand....because they BOTH used the words "seems a little strange"....why didn't one use "unusual"...or "weird".....?? And the last part of the intervews that I have posted....are exactly the same. Also...Patsy says..."...when you are trying to remember things later, it seems a little strange"...and John's interview says...."Which in retrospect, seems a little strange". The things that I have highlighted in red...in my last sentence....mean the same thing.

From JR's 98 Interview:


5 JOHN RAMSEY: But she specifically, I
6 just remember her making little plates going down
7 the line. Which, in retrospect, seems a little
8 strange.

-----------------------------------------

From Ames: It's odd that one of them didn't say...."Is a little weird" or "seems strange" or "seems a little odd" , etc. They both say...in looking back...that it "seems a little strange".

thank you both (Zak and Ames) for pulling that up;perhaps no one else was panning out,so why not throw the White's under suspicion???

 

[Ames]

I also recall reading somewhere she was told *not to take her bike out bf going to the White's,but she did anyway.this perhaps one more reason someone was becoming angry w her;they saw a defiance in her,and could no longer control her?
In DOI,JR says she wanted to ride it that morning,but BR suggested something else,so they did that instead.odd that JR would even mention that,though.

Then that is yet another LIE...neighbors saw Burke riding HIS bike on Christmas day.

 

[JMO8778]

Then that is yet another LIE...neighbors saw Burke riding HIS bike on Christmas day.

odd,isn't it,much less that they bothered to put it in the book.

 

[UKGuy]

I thought I remembered him saying that in his book (about it being the white shirt after all).

DeeDee249,
From memory he cited JonBenet wearing a white shirt on some forum response he took part in?

If JonBenet had not been wearing the white gap top to the White's, we would have heard about it by now, since along with other initial Ramsey statements, it would blow their version of events out of the water?

.

 

[JMO8778]

what I wonder is,what is so damning about the pics made at the White's,that they haven't been released? it must be something pretty incriminating,as to any of the R's appearance that night,esp. JB? clothing or otherwise,perhaps JB's hairstyle or color?

 

[Ames]

what I wonder is,what is so damning about the pics made at the White's,that they haven't been released? it must be something pretty incriminating,as to any of the R's appearance that night,esp. JB? clothing or otherwise,perhaps JB's hairstyle or color?

If you go to acandyrose's site, she has been updating her picture page. For almost a year now, there has been a blank spot, and under it..it says "White's Party, Dec. 25, 1996". But then it says "UNDER CONSTRUCTION. So, I don't know what the deal is with that. There is also another place for pictures that says.."Christmas Eve, Dec. 24, 1996...Under Construction".

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-ramseycase.htm

 

[DeeDee249]

If you go to acandyrose's site, she has been updating her picture page. For almost a year now, there has been a blank spot, and under it..it says "White's Party, Dec. 25, 1996". But then it says "UNDER CONSTRUCTION. So, I don't know what the deal is with that. There is also another place for pictures that says.."Christmas Eve, Dec. 24, 1996...Under Construction".

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-ramseycase.htm

Actually its always said "under construction" as long as I can remember visiting that site (over 3 years at least). I believe she planned to add the pics s soon as they were made public, but as we all know, they haven't been.