a view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #4

[Hally]

I would like to add something. It is emotionally draining some days because of the nature of the trial. We go to HH to decompress, it can be that stressful. KCL and I walk back to our cars exhausted. It's hard to explain unless you've been inside feeling what the family is going through.
I realize there are and tourists (if you will), but that is not us. We are there to support the family. To show we care about them and justice for their brother who was slaughtered.

I am not complaining, or whining. I'm merely explaining that when you're inside you feel what the family feels, you feel for the family and what they're having to endure.

That is why I've had to take a few days away from the trial. I dream about it, I wake up several times a night thinking about it. I needed the break.
His family can't get a break, it's very sad.

Well said Pasa, you can tell that us the tv viewers are feeling the aches, pains, and just down right sickness of it all. I know I am.

I can't imagine being in the CR, seeing the family just a few feet away, stifling all your emotions, taking notes, feeling the anguish as it unfolds,and with KCL re-living it literally.

Mental stress is physically draining, and I appreciate you, and all who share and contribute to those of us - who are lucky enough to get an inside view.


Many thanks.

 

[MeeBee]

That Kristin Randle blog is really fascinating. I hope Demarte did administer those malingering tests and that is why Juan is not bringing up the malingering possibility to Samuels. He wants Demarte to be the one to explain malingering amnesia and the tests that are involved.

 

[Soliloquy]

Really, well they know that the test is administered to future employees, not everyone does, including those in HR. I guess that would depend on the company one works for. yes, no?

I cannot erase the fact one juror is aware of this test, I had to google it myself.

Sure, but they could easily have come across it in an HR / staffing magazine. I know when I was in Audit, my boss was constantly circulating magazines geared towards IT auditors. There were so many that I finally started initialing them and passing them on to the next person because it was too time-consuming to read all of them. The same was true in IT. HR / staffing have their own versions and I'm sure there have been plenty of articles written on the legal and ethics concerns of using psychological testing to screen candidates. Those articles would be more interesting to read than audit magazines, I can assure you!

IMO, the question didn't even really apply to this trial, but it was so innocuous that no one opposed it. It does show, along with the other questions, that jurors who are submitting questions are intelligent and are paying attention.

 

[Hally]

Sure, but they could easily have come across it in an HR / staffing magazine. I know when I was in Audit, my boss was constantly circulating magazines geared towards IT auditors. There were so many that I finally started initialing them and passing them on to the next person because it was too time-consuming to read all of them. The same was true in IT. HR / staffing have their own versions and I'm sure there have been plenty of articles written on the legal and ethics concerns of using psychological testing to screen candidates. Those articles would be more interesting to read than audit magazines, I can assure you!

IMO, the question didn't even really apply to this trial, but it was so innocuous that no one opposed it. It does show, along with the other questions, that jurors who are submitting questions are intelligent and are paying attention.

I appreciate you reply thank-you, and we really don't know the background of the juror who asked the ?. But, I am glad that one was aware of the test being used and where, no matter where they educated them self on it. That is an astute juror on the specific matter - which is a good thing.

It is not a everyday/general ?, that most have knowledge on. I am not sure the actual stats, but I am sure talking to a group of friends/peers - they are not aware of the test or when, where, how it is used. I think it's safe to say about the jurors, that only one ? was asked specifically on this.

 

[ctmom]

And at the end of the day he wanted his "exhibit" back to "study" over the weekend. Study? or alter?

Or attempt to keep JM from discovering more fix/cover-ups not already identified.

His entire suitcase looks like the aftermath of an F-5 tornado from which he has not been able to produce numerous requested documents.

But Thursday afternoon with JM.. He suddenly -- conveniently-- comes up with "his copy" stating it was in his notebook "all along"

Doc should have shut his trap re: "his conveniently found copy".
IMO He never thought producing "his" "copy" would be a red flag in JM's mind.

Then the judge told him he has to speak with the DT re: getting his "exhibit" back... to study..
Yes.... Doc seemed petrified.

The DT is no doubt ripping the good doctor a new orifice this weekend.
and.....
He is no doubt one of those people who believe no one can see him:
picking his nose, in his car, in slow - heavy traffic.....
Because the windows r rolled up. :floorlaugh:

 

[AZlawyer]

Arizona State Code ARS13-1105 I looked up the code, can any legal eagles help with understanding the reasons as to why it is being filed now?


13-1105. First degree murder; classification

A. A person commits first degree murder if:

1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

2. Acting either alone or with one or more other persons the person commits or attempts to commit sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, molestation of a child under section 13-1410, terrorism under section 13-2308.01, marijuana offenses under section 13-3405, subsection A, paragraph 4, dangerous drug offenses under section 13-3407, subsection A, paragraphs 4 and 7, narcotics offenses under section 13-3408, subsection A, paragraph 7 that equal or exceed the statutory threshold amount for each offense or combination of offenses, involving or using minors in drug offenses under section 13-3409, drive by shooting under section 13-1209, kidnapping under section 13-1304, burglary under section 13-1506, 13-1507 or 13-1508, arson under section 13-1703 or 13-1704, robbery under section 13-1902, 13-1903 or 13-1904, escape under section 13-2503 or 13-2504, child abuse under section 13-3623, subsection A, paragraph 1 or unlawful flight from a pursuing law enforcement vehicle under section 28-622.01 and, in the course of and in furtherance of the offense or immediate flight from the offense, the person or another person causes the death of any person.

3. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death to a law enforcement officer, the person causes the death of a law enforcement officer who is in the line of duty.

B. Homicide, as prescribed in subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section, requires no specific mental state other than what is required for the commission of any of the enumerated felonies.

C. An offense under subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section applies to an unborn child in the womb at any stage of its development. A person shall not be prosecuted under subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section if any of the following applies:

1. The person was performing an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on the pregnant woman's behalf, has been obtained or for which the consent was implied or authorized by law.

2. The person was performing medical treatment on the pregnant woman or the pregnant woman's unborn child.

3. The person was the unborn child's mother.

D. First degree murder is a class 1 felony and is punishable by death or life imprisonment as provided by sections 13-751 and 13-752.


Sections: Previous 13-1101 13-1102 13-1103 13-1104 13-1105
Last modified: February 19, 2012

Why what's being filed now? The supposed protective order against the courtroom observer? IMO that didn't happen. Someone misread the docket.

 

[indycornstalk]

That Kristin Randle blog is really fascinating. I hope Demarte did administer those malingering tests and that is why Juan is not bringing up the malingering possibility to Samuels. He wants Demarte to be the one to explain malingering amnesia and the tests that are involved.

Sorry to ask this but, I just got back from vacation and I am trying to catch up on the trial and the info and was wondering who this Kristin Randle is and what her blog is about? Thanks?

 

[BritsKate]

Sorry to ask this but, I just got back from vacation and I am trying to catch up on the trial and the info and was wondering who this Kristin Randle is and what her blog is about? Thanks?

Discounting the entire defense psychological theory, one step at a time. It's great!

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-essays/

 

[Tsunvirtual]

I would like to add something. It is emotionally draining some days because of the nature of the trial. We go to HH to decompress, it can be that stressful. KCL and I walk back to our cars exhausted. It's hard to explain unless you've been inside feeling what the family is going through.
I realize there are and tourists (if you will), but that is not us. We are there to support the family. To show we care about them and justice for their brother who was slaughtered.

I am not complaining, or whining. I'm merely explaining that when you're inside you feel what the family feels, you feel for the family and what they're having to endure.

That is why I've had to take a few days away from the trial. I dream about it, I wake up several times a night thinking about it. I needed the break.
His family can't get a break, it's very sad.

Pasa, I attended a highly publicized trial here in Florida. I had no idea how difficult it is to sit there all day and keep physical reactions and expressions in check. Also my seat happened to be next to the defendant's mother and father. I wanted to go back but I couldn't make myself after that one day.

So I can understand. I really appreciate you and the other courtroom observers for doing this and sharing here.

 

[BritsKate]

Yes, I understand money is always a motivator. BUT, it takes a helluva cold a$$ person with a helluva mean streak to knowingly inflict that kind of pain on innocent people who have already been thru unspeakable pain. AND it takes a monster to turn loose a cold blooded killer, or help to turn them loose. I really really don't get how anyone could justify that. No amount of money would make me do that. And I know that for a fact because I've walked away from HUGE money, and I wasn't keeping a killer in prison. No, that scum bucket has no compassion. He's like JA....someone who only feels for himself. Not for others.

RBBM

I think you totally nailed it. There's a theory out there I've honestly mostly ignored until seeing the Doc testify. Theory goes disordered personalities tend to gravitate towards other disordereds. Sometimes too disordered personalities are actually attracted to career fields in psychology and psychiatry in a subconscious attempt to self-medicate.

I personally think Dr. Samuels motivation for testifying goes beyond dollar signs. I believe he probably is afflicted with NPD and saw a chance to live his moment in the limelight, on the national stage, touting his 'vast expertise' and 'superior intellect'.

It explains, for me, why he had a hypothesis before any assessment and sought only to prove his theory correct. Without a very defensive defense it's unlikely he would have been called to testify and he would've missed out on the spotlight.

Like most narcissistic personalities he couldn't possibly see he'd instead be made into a laughingstock of epic proportion. Likely instead he feels he's done amazingly well on the stand, all things considered, like the mean, mad Martinez questioning him with such veracity.

 

[indycornstalk]

Heres my question, has anything come of the Pill Popping and the hiding of the folder under her pathetic butt? Someone please tell me YES!!!

 

[PASA]

It's a good thing the jury had their finger on the pulse of that one as question after question came in addressing just that. He was also insulting their intelligence by claiming the fact the ENTIRE PTSD test was based on a false story didn't matter. This is not a dumb jury....I think he lost them with that "dog ate my homework" part 2. And again it was the THIRD story he kept calling the SECOND.

BBM

That is so funny because a fellow WSer who was at trial with me last week said exactly that to me when Samuels was looking for his papers. I even wrote it in my notes. LOL!!

We're sitting across the room and yet we say the same thing, amazing.
I bet the jurors thought the same thing.

 

[garthmax]

Or attempt to keep JM from discovering more fix/cover-ups not already identified.

His entire suitcase looks like the aftermath of an F-5 tornado from which he has not been able to produce numerous requested documents.

But Thursday afternoon with JM.. He suddenly -- conveniently-- comes up with "his copy" stating it was in his notebook "all along"

Doc should have shut his trap re: "his conveniently found copy".
IMO He never thought producing "his" "copy" would be a red flag in JM's mind.

Then the judge told him he has to speak with the DT re: getting his "exhibit" back... to study..
Yes.... Doc seemed petrified.

The DT is no doubt ripping the good doctor a new orifice this weekend.
and.....
He is no doubt one of those people who believe no one can see him:
picking his nose, in his car, in slow - heavy traffic.....
Because the windows r rolled up. :floorlaugh:

What is the three hole punch about?

 

[Renee110]

I was wondering if anyone would catch that "Driverisim' with the convey vs. convince. I love that though. And I don't know about on TV but in the courtroom he just seemed to always be protesting too much on the "dissociative amnesia". I swear if JM was asking him about his own educational background he'd still find a way to work it in to a sentence like "when I was first starting out in my training I remember a professor telling me a story about a child of a patient of his own mentor's who had dissociative amnesia" or some such tangential BS.

He's the epitome, to me, of the convince vs. convey and on that note I"m gonna text Janine and tell her that I applied it for a nice little pat on the head. lol woofwoof

hee hee. He can probably remember the doctor who smacked his a$$ when he came into the world talking about dissociative amnesia!

I'm sure Janine is thrilled to have a truly appreciative apprentice!

 

[Negative green]

I think the cart then the horse, in that order, crossed over that borderline back in NJ and went on a cross country pioneering expedition all the way to AZ with that wagon full o' unethics.

You have such a way with words. :great::great::great:

 

[Renee110]

I think that JA is actually enjoying this whole trial. It is all about her. She is delighted with the twisting of the truth because she believes that she is so clever that can outdebate and manipulate anyone.

Oh I'm sure this is fun for her. Breaks up the monotony of her life in jail. And she's probably confident that like CA and OJ she'll walk. The funny thing is, I think she hasn't hated being in jail. I think she's adapted to her new world, and actually enjoys the infamy and knowing she'll forever be famous. The fact that she's "famous" for a heinous crime doesn't bother her. She's a celebrity now.

 

[LambChop]

Or attempt to keep JM from discovering more fix/cover-ups not already identified.

His entire suitcase looks like the aftermath of an F-5 tornado from which he has not been able to produce numerous requested documents.

But Thursday afternoon with JM.. He suddenly -- conveniently-- comes up with "his copy" stating it was in his notebook "all along"

Doc should have shut his trap re: "his conveniently found copy".
IMO He never thought producing "his" "copy" would be a red flag in JM's mind.

Then the judge told him he has to speak with the DT re: getting his "exhibit" back... to study..
Yes.... Doc seemed petrified.

The DT is no doubt ripping the good doctor a new orifice this weekend.
and.....
He is no doubt one of those people who believe no one can see him:
picking his nose, in his car, in slow - heavy traffic.....
Because the windows r rolled up. :floorlaugh:

I noticed Samuels does two things when JM is questioning him. He scratches behind his ear. Sign of deceit? He shifts just his eyes over towards defense when he sometimes answers a question from JM. This indicates some type of conspiracy such as, "This is what we agreed to say right?" He looks to them for approval. As a psychologist he should know better and if he does these things himself why is it he can't spot it in others. Jodi's body language is more subtle while Samuels is sooooooo obvious. I can't believe he shifts just his eyes at defense for approval.

I also read that the juror's who are covering their mouths while watching the testimony believe the person testifying is lying. jmo

 

[Goldie]

Well said Pasa, you can tell that us the tv viewers are feel, pains, and just down right sickness of it all. I know I am.

I can't imagine being in the CR, seeing the family just a few feet away, stifling all your emotions, taking notes, feeling the anguish as it unfolds,and with KCL re-living it literally.

Mental stress is physically draining, and I appreciate you, and all who share and contribute to those of us - who are lucky enough to get an inside view.


Many thanks.

It would exhaust me, because I would have to use every single muscle in my body to keep from choking the living carp out of THW:banghead:

 

[Renee110]

Then that a sound decision will be made then that will prohibit this dangerous individual Rudi Apelt from ever being released from prison again. And to allow me and my family to finally move forward without ever having to worry about him again. And to hopefully get to begin to live a life where we get to focus on remembering my sister's life and not her violent death.

That to me was very impactful. (I know it's not a word lol). ONE person can make such a difference. That makes you very powerful. I don't have any words of wisdom and I can't say I understand because I've never been through anything like that. I do think You are an angel among us sent here to help correct and balance the wrong down here.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

I can't imagine how KCL, PASA and others who are attending the trial in support of Justice for Travis and the Alexander family manage like they do but it's a testimony to their personal strength, integrity and dedication. Just being in the same room as that despictable, evil, ruthless, smug, killer has got to be tough never mind sitting through hours of the most boring, mind-numbing defense CIC I've ever heard. The one shining light is the prosecutor who speaks so passionately, respectfully, justly for Travis Alexander and every person (and four-legged friend - Napolean) who knew and loved him and those who never had the chance/privilege and are there for him now in person and/or spirit. Godspeed to you all.