Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[FrostedGlass]

I do not know what to think about this case anymore.

How the attorney, Williams Lebrato, can claim that Richard Allen's story has not changed, yet Richard Allen is now going to try to claim he was not at the trails between 1:30 - 3:30 pm, but was there between 12 - 1:30 pm? Therefore, according to the timeline Richard Allen left before Abigail Williams and Liberty German even arrived at the Monon High Bridge trail. If the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera has Richard Allen's black Ford Focus with blacked out wheels arriving and heading towards the old CPS building, I do not think a jury will like being lied to.

This is such a strange case because you don't think that a person who commits a crime like this is going to come forward so soon after the murders and volunteer vital information that will eventually result in their arrest and conviction.

I do think the defense has one good question that I am sure a jury is going to consider. How can the prosecution have so many witnesses that saw Richard Allen arrive, on foot or by seeing his car parked at the old CPS building, but no one saw him leave? Even the drive-by witness who said she saw a muddy and bloody man, said that occurred at 3:57pm. Yet if Richard Allen was telling the truth the first time to the conservation officer, why did he say he left at 3:30pm? Why not say the correct time, around 4 pm?

It is just sort of amazing that Richard Allen thought that if he went to talk to the conservation officer that no one would investigate him for 5 years or if he said he left at 3:30pm instead of 4 pm no one would think he was the person walking along 300 N after the crime. But the astonishing part is that LE never even knew who bridge guy was or what he looked like. It seemed like the only thing they knew is that there was a dark colored car parked at the old CPS building on the day of the crime and there was a man on a bridge who was on platform 1 who, according to the April 2019 press conference, was the murderer. And that was it.

Those are all good points.
I'd like to add that the last time a sighting of a vehicle at the CPS building was reported, it was by BB at 1414hrs. We're not even sure what color or kind that one was.

I can't remember how long LE had the call out for the person who may have been parked between 12 to 5(?). We've never heard any more about that.

 

[photographer4]

We only knew of the bullet and caliber after the SW. Is there chain of custody pages included for every single item recovered at the residence? I'd say some are more generic than others, 5 shoes, 6 jackets, 4 knives, etc.

Maybe the Defense hasn't 'reviewed' all of that part of Discovery yet or maybe the State hadn't provided them at the time of the FM. They had until Nov 1st to turn over all Discovery, the FM was written in Sept IIRC.

Speaking of turning over Discovery, the Defense hasn't turned over much if any to the State. Hmmmm. Wonder why that is?

MOO

I'm over here just wondering when the D was gonna turn over discovery given JG fired them and they were off the case for a significant period of time? The motion to have that immediately by the Prosecution felt like a petty move on their part designed to tie up the lawyers time (detract from studying the "new" & "voluminous" materials they dropped on the defense).
When did the Prosecution provide the aforementioned discovery to the Defence? Did that get submitted before Nov 1?

 

[photographer4]

I think it's possible in his panic after the fact (who I believe is RA) didn't realize a bullet came out of his gun and dropped at the scene or he didn't know or think police would find it. He didn't shoot the girls, he only used it to abduct them from the bridge to the final location they were found. So I think it's possible he kept the gun because he didn't think LE knew he even used one. I'd say he likely got ride of the weapon he used to kill them because it could connect him to the scene, but he felt confident a gun wouldn't be something LE was looking for. I think you are right if they would have said the suspect would have used xyz type of gun, he would have ditched that gun. IMO/

But how common is the gun that uses that specific type of bullet? EG: could this have come from a searcher's gun or from LE at the scene? Or from some time before the kids were ever there? Serious question as I know nothing about guns. How accurate is the science behind sorting out which gun it was from?

 

[photographer4]

What bothers me about the unspent round is how it is described as being "buried in the ground," and "taken out of the ground," and other such descriptions that make it sound like it wasn't just laying there, but perhaps at least partially sunk into the dirt. Obviously, we don't have access to the photo of it on the ground to see for ourselves.

Was the ground there really soft where somebody stepping on a bullet would sink it? It's just an odd detail I'd like to know more about.

So I've wondered this myself actually - I may even have asked previously but did the police use a metal detector at the scene? I would have! If they did, how far down was this thing "buried"? What state was it in? Shiny and new or rusted? What was the state of the ground in the area? Muddy? Slushy? Solid and frozen? They found a bullet. What made them certain it was an intentional aspect of the crime scene vs just a bullet that happened to be there before the kids were ever there?

 

[photographer4]

That's the impression I got, too. In one of the early news reports, one of the searchers mentioned the muddy fields they had to walk through. If the high ground is muddy, will the area near the creek be muddy, too?
Plus, remember that article that mentioned footprints leading to the bodies?

While my mind is wandering around, we just learned about the missing interviews but Barbara MD's comments about the LE not suspecting anything Odin-related (they didn't take the sticks until later)... why, then, did they interview them so soon after the murders?

They didn't take the sticks until later? How much later!?

 

[photographer4]

For all of those who wanted to know the source of whether the witnesses were shown photo(s) of RA and it was who they saw on the bridge, it's in the section from the release of Discovery Dump where they are addressing the Search Warrant. I can't copy and paste, you'll have to search for it. It's about halfway through the entire document maybe more towards the end and yes, it happened before he was arrested.

Unfortunately this isn't a continuous document that page numbers.

JMO

I've heard about this, but not sure where / how to find it? Any help (from anyone) would be super appreciated!

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBBM:

With respect, and in all seriousness, IMO, the SCOIN would likely not have been snookered. The justices laid out very clearly why they allowed this issue to be heard in oral arguments, and why they voted 4:1 to reinstate the attorneys. They explained in detail about why an interlocutory appeal might not have been feasible. Even the dissenter was respectful of his colleagues' decision, only questioning the procedural appropriateness due to a new rule. And, it was appellate attorneys who brought the issue up, not AB and BR, from my understanding. JMO.

Today is my first chance to read the opinion.
I'm glad for the clarification on this matter:
[snip pg 13]
"To be sure, the Sixth Amendment’s right to effective counsel “imposes a baseline requirement of competence on whatever lawyer is chosen or appointed.” Gonzalez‐Lopez, 548 U.S. at 148. But there is no suggestion that Baldwin and Rozzi are out of their depth. Baldwin has over thirty years of experience representing thousands of clients around the state—including clients charged with murder, rape, robbery, burglary, and other violent offenses—and he has tried more than125 jury trials. Rozzi has over twenty years of the same experience, including three murder trials and a previous certification to handle death penalty cases."

https://public.courts.in.gov/Decisions/api/Document/Opinion?Id=TWpDY7S8sATqPWh50ta8w0N5f1k5NjXezrOt02MdSk7tzOjXnR6SVtncFrbE60HI0

 

[FrostedGlass]

They didn't take the sticks until later? How much later!?

Several weeks later, according to Barbara MacDonald
near the 11mm

 

[photographer4]

... I found this in the FM (summarized here). A man by the name of RB knew nothing of the crime scene, somehow saw some images on BH's fb of concern and contacted LE in April 2017. YOu can find it here around page 12-13-14. By the time he contacted LE, he was told BH wasn't a suspect and then the man contacted some other LE and sent photos etc to the police. The D had not received these at the time of the filing of the FM....

https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

So we know they had "cleared" BH by the time RB called police on April 12, 2017. I'd like to know so much more about the investigation into these guys! The FM also says BH was never a suspect.

 

[photographer4]

Scanning old news articles looking for something in particular that of course I cannot find... I found this - it says EF consented to a mouth swab for DNA... a year later... guess they didn't find any.

'Cultist' who Delphi defense blames for 'ritualistic' murders breaks silence

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think we have to wonder what the scene was and how quickly LE realized it may be odinism. We also have to wonder how they decided to speak to BH in the first place or PW or EF. Were they known to police as Odins? Were they tipped in (if so by whom and why and when?). When did they learn about EF and when did they interview him?

I think some problems would still be with us. Again. RA being there and seeing the people who saw him (did they see each other? Or someone else?) doesn’t make him a killer for sure (probably does!). But the prosecution still has to prove it.

This is all JMO:

BH was called in because he is the father of LH who was AW boyfriend.

LE works it's way through those who are closest to the victims.

The other 3 people you mention could have been interviewed because of EFs sister.


JMO

 

[photographer4]

Why would declining a polygraph be connected to whether he has a pro bono lawyer? Anyone who thinks polygraphs are not accurate or doesn't trust the police for whatever reason can decline one. JMO

Because in the FM, in the footnotes, found on page 94, the D contends that a lawyer by the initials JG contacted LE to advise that EF would not be doing a polygraph per her advice to him. So when did he obtain a lawyer and at who's expense? Its his legal right to obtain one, and a smart move for sure!
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[Ravenmoon]

Is anyone else waiting for the next accidental leak?

I can't help but think that between now and the March 18th some new theories and or information will end up in the public domain.


JMO

 

[photographer4]

This is all JMO:

BH was called in because he is the father of LH who was AW boyfriend.

LE works it's way through those who are closest to the victims.

The other 3 people you mention could have been interviewed because of EFs sister.


JMO

How did they know Abby had a BF at all? Just wondering....

 

[iamshadow21]

Is anyone else waiting for the next accidental leak?

I can't help but think that between now and the March 18th some new theories and or information will end up in the public domain.


JMO

I am hoping for nothing but boring uneventful motions and continuances until trial, but this case continues to disappoint me on that front. My expectations for good behaviour are set very low at this point.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

That's where we disagree, it's all about honor and I believe the old/new defense by their actions have shown they have none. AJMO

Well, we can disagree and still have great respect for the posts made by one another!

 

[Ravenmoon]

How did they know Abby had a BF at all? Just wondering....

My guess:

Kids talk about their love interests to their peers. It wouldn't be hard to find out. Plus, I am sure when LH found out that his GF was missing and eventually found deceased he was in distress. He probably went to his family for support.


JMO

 

[Gemmie]

How did they know Abby had a BF at all? Just wondering....

It appears that it was tipped in (Pgs 62/63 of Memorandum).

 

[mrjitty]

... I found this in the FM (summarized here). A man by the name of RB knew nothing of the crime scene, somehow saw some images on BH's fb of concern and contacted LE in April 2017. YOu can find it here around page 12-13-14. By the time he contacted LE, he was told BH wasn't a suspect and then the man contacted some other LE and sent photos etc to the police. The D had not received these at the time of the filing of the FM....

https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

So we know they had "cleared" BH by the time RB called police on April 12, 2017. I'd like to know so much more about the investigation into these guys! The FM also says BH was never a suspect.

A part of the Franks I particularly struggle with is that the investigation found BH had an alibi which means he cannot be Bridge Guy, unless you speculate into existence theories based on no evidence about how somehow he wasn't at work and someone else swiped in for him. Furthermore zero evidence connects him to the murders. So in what world can this guy be described as a suspect?

 

[photographer4]

It appears that it was tipped in (Pgs 62/63 of Memorandum).

View attachment 482085

Thanks. That document is so ridiculously long its hard to keep track of what is in it!! I guess they never heard a teacher say "K.I.S.S" (keep it simple stupid!).