Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[Cyber sleuth]

How do you know for certain that "he said he did it"? I know LE has said he "confessed" to his wife and his mother over the telephone, but no transcript has been released. I think that if RA actually confessed to murdering the girls to his wife, she would be in the process of divorcing him right now, and so far as I know, she is still supporting him. In my opinion, when this goes to trial, people are going to be disappointed at this so-called "confession". JMO

RA confessed to his wife and mother no less than 5 times that he murdered Abigail and Liberty. Calls were recorded and transcribed.
Prosecutor NMc addressed it during a hearing for emergency motion to transfer.
Defense acknowledged RA’s confessions as well during this hearing. I would expect the transcripts will be released during trial.
See article attached.
Testimony: Richard Allen made incriminating statements in jail

 

[Ravenmoon]

Richard Allen may not have even seen the witness who said he was standing on platform 1.

Based on the 2:07 picture upload of Abigail Williams, there is no one in the background and Abby and Libby are relatively far across the bridge at that point.

Why did the killer wait for at least 8 minutes before he decided to approach the girls on the Monon High Bridge?

To be certain that no one else was near the trail or bridge?

To allow Abby and Libby to continue to move further down the bridge, to ensure they were cornered?

To prepare himself for what he was about to do?

JMO

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

While we're talking about the ejected round, I wonder if it was ever tested for touch DNA.

I was wondering about that too or if it is possible because BG’s/RA’s clothes were expected to be wet from the stream, mud and blood, I wonder if some of the DNA or evidence from his wet clothes could have dripped or seeped into the open corners of the car keys, the trigger of the gun, the floorboard underneath the car’s carpeted floor, into the sides of the chairs inside of the car, the car’s gears or under the pedals and such? I think one of the articles posted below mentioned that already mentioned that they are checking the seatbelts, the trunk and floorboard of the passenger seat.

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

https://www.science.org/content/article/who-pulled-trigger-gun-muzzle-exhaust-may-complicate-analysis-crime-scenes

DNA found on gun trigger allowed at trial

FRENCH VALLEY – A judge ruled Thursday that DNA evidence on agun believed used to kill a man in a Good Hope parking lot isadmissible during the trial of four suspected gang members chargedwit…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

The forensic use of luminol chemiluminescence to detect traces of blood inside motor vehicles - PubMed

The luminol test for blood was carried out on a set of interior fittings and surfaces inside three different makes of modern motor car. The surfaces and fittings provided little interference with the test for blood, although there was some detectable chemiluminescence when the test was applied...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exploring the limits for the survival of DNA in blood stains - PubMed

It is generally recognized that usable DNA may be retained in dry biological stains for years. We have explored the environmental limits for this property. Air-dried blood stains were incubated at different conditions of relative humidity (RH) and temperature. The quality of the extracted DNA...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[DeDee]

There is something strange about when the main witness(BB) who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 of the Monon High bridge, arrives and leaves from the Mears entrance in her vehicle. I saw a youtube video of walking from the Mears entrance to the start of the Monon High Bridge. It takes 5 minutes to walk each way.

5 minute walk from Mears entrance to the start of MHB. Maybe they went slowly.

If the witness was there for 25 minutes and it only take 10 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge and back, what did she do with the other 15 minutes?

After seeing the man on platform 1, she, BB, turned and walked to the Freedom Bridge before returning to her car.

RSBM But we do not know what Abby and Libby did when they arrived other than the witness stating she saw them walking towards the Monon High Bridge.

Yes, BB, the same witness said she saw the two girls, our victims, Abby and Libby, entering as she was departing for Freedom Bridge. So, how long had she been walking when she saw them? Where did BG go after BB saw him? How could he not pass Abby and Libby on the trail as they entered? I suppose they kept walking to the bridge and he ducked into the treeline.

There seems to be time missing there too as once the girls passed this witness they would have had to really slow down before getting to the beginning of the Monon High Bridge based on posting one photo at 2:05 and another a few minutes later of Abby on the bridge at 2:07.

It does seem they strolled and took their time and were not at all in a hurry. It was Abby's first time to cross MHB. She was timid, maybe needed a little coaxing. The killer could have observed their actions standing back by the trees. Maybe they could also see if anyone new was entering the trails.

I know the pictures could have been taken earlier and then posted later. But then that would mean the killer waited even longer than 8 minutes before he decided to approach them at 2:13pm based on Liberty German's phone video and the first picture posting at 2:05pm.

BG's not in the 2:07 snap. It takes 4-5 minutes of hustling to cross the MHB. He was on them by 2:15pm. They were trapped since they were facing a gun. Just think of it. Two 13yo girls are walking the trails and a sorry low down pissant pulls a loaded gun on them.

Maybe Richard Allen did do it based on the evidence, but I still think these questions need to be answered.

 

[somequestions]

One thing I have always wondered about Liberty German's phone video is if there is more of it of bridge guy walking, before the 3 second clip that was shown to the public?

This person on the bridge seems to be far enough across the bridge that I wondered if Liberty German had her phone recording him walking for longer than what the public was shown? Why would LE not release that longer walk though?

Because we can only guess, I thought maybe the reason Liberty German's phone video clip is so short is because the person on the bridge made a movement that caused her concern. This caused her to turn her attention from Abby to the person walking towards them. The only movement I could think of was the person on the bridge stopped and turned around.

I know this is speculation though because I do not know how much more video the police have of bridge guy other than what was released to the public.

 

[Boxer]

To be certain that no one else was near the trail or bridge?

To allow Abby and Libby to continue to move further down the bridge, to ensure they were cornered?

To prepare himself for what he was about to do?

JMO

MOO to have them move into the trees at the south end of the bridge out of view from the lower trail (called 505 I think)

 

[Emma Peel]

Good (and interesting) to see Barb McD (and other press) "working" a source - here the "Court executive". Experienced journalists find the source that can be forthcoming with more complete information - and then that info is accessible to the public.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764602936087191712

 

[Justice101]

To be certain that no one else was near the trail or bridge?

To allow Abby and Libby to continue to move further down the bridge, to ensure they were cornered?

To prepare himself for what he was about to do?

JMO

Trapped and once he looked back over his shoulder and saw nobody coming up the trail from the parking lot side, he probably went very fast towards A&L and that is what probably sparked her to turn on her phone and record him.

If it wasn't for that evidence, even though LE dropped the ball, I don't think RA would have come forward or the LE would never have enough evidence to identify him then arrest him.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm looking forward to hearing about exactly when that bullet was found.

They listed it in the PCA so I'm sure it was found when they processed the crime scene. Is there information claiming otherwise?

MOO

 

[somequestions]

Richard Allen's placement on the Monon High Bridge after the witness (BB) claims she saw him on platform 1 makes sense. Richard Allen also claims he never saw Abby and Libby which does not make sense if he says he walked back down the trail to leave before the girls got to the bridge.

But not being seen leaving can also present a problem. If the driving witness who saw the muddy and bloody person on the 300 N saw Richard Allen, there should be someone passing by the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera a little before or after 3:57pm.

According to the PCA, "Investigators identified other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N between 2:30 and 4:11pm. None of those individuals saw a male subject matching the description of Richard Allen on the trail."
Then it goes on to say this is why Richard Allen had to be in the woods with the girls during this time. Then later it states LE believes a woman driving in a car at 3:57pm on CR 300 N saw Richard Allen with clothes that were muddy and bloody as he was walking back to his car.

Did people actually see Richard Allen walking back to his car (either on the trails or CR 300 N) or didn't they?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I'm looking forward to hearing about exactly when that bullet was found.

IMO it was found the same day the girls were found.
If it was found later Defense would have already made that public knowledge.
Instead they have challenged the amount of photographs taken of the bullet and ballistic evidence. Not one issue with the date of recovery.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Richard Allen's placement on the Monon High Bridge after the witness (BB) claims she saw him on platform 1 makes sense. Richard Allen also claims he never saw Abby and Libby which does not make sense if he says he walked back down the trail to leave before the girls got to the bridge.

But not being seen leaving can also present a problem. If the driving witness who saw the muddy and bloody person on the 300 N saw Richard Allen, there should be someone passing by the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera a little before or after 3:57pm.

According to the PCA, "Investigators identified other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N between 2:30 and 4:11pm. None of those individuals saw a male subject matching the description of Richard Allen on the trail."
Then it goes on to say this is why Richard Allen had to be in the woods with the girls during this time. Then later it states LE believes a woman driving in a car at 3:57pm on CR 300 N saw Richard Allen with clothes that were muddy and bloody as he was walking back to his car.

Did people actually see Richard Allen walking back to his car (either on the trails or CR 300 N) or didn't they?

As far as we have been informed. RA was not seen on the trails after he abducted Abby and Libby. He was seen by a witness walking in the direction of his car on 300n at 3:57pm. IMO he stayed hidden as much as possible after the attack. He may have been on the trail for a piece and then saw other people and went into the woods, ultimately exiting to 300N at some point so he could flee in his car.
He would have been trying to avoid the witnesses and perhaps even the camera if he was aware of it.
IMO it’s quite telling that he was seen right before the crime and right after.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There is something strange about when the main witness(BB) who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 of the Monon High bridge, arrives and leaves from the Mears entrance in her vehicle. I saw a youtube video of walking from the Mears entrance to the start of the Monon High Bridge. It takes 5 minutes to walk each way.

If the witness was there for 25 minutes and it only take 10 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge and back, what did she do with the other 15 minutes?

It cannot be that she walked the 505 trail first because based on the time she arrived, by the time she would have gotten back to the beginning of the 505 trail, Abby and Libby would already have arrived and been walking down the 501 trail to the Monon High Bridge in front of her.

OR maybe the main witness(BB) walked the 501 trail first and then the 505 later. The problem with that is then if Richard Allen really did leave walking past the Mears entrance no one can really prove he is not telling the truth other than to state that he said he never saw Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the 501 trail as he was leaving. But we do not know what Abby and Libby did when they arrived other than the witness stating she saw them walking towards the Monon High Bridge. There seems to be time missing there too as once the girls passed this witness they would have had to really slow down before getting to the beginning of the Monon High Bridge based on posting one photo at 2:05 and another a few minutes later of Abby on the bridge at 2:07. I know the pictures could have been taken earlier and then posted later. But then that would mean the killer waited even longer than 8 minutes before he decided to approach them at 2:13pm based on Liberty German's phone video and the first picture posting at 2:05pm.

Maybe Richard Allen did do it based on the evidence, but I still think these questions need to be answered.

You put a lot of good thought into that. I've pondered it until my head hurts.

In The PCA, the time KG's white car is spotted on the HH cam is used as the drop off time. If you used the time the family has offered (Around 1:37pm) what does that do to your timeline?

Then, suppose he really was there between noon and !:30, where does that take you?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Richard Allen may not have even seen the witness who said he was standing on platform 1.

Based on the 2:07 picture upload of Abigail Williams, there is no one in the background and Abby and Libby are relatively far across the bridge at that point.

Why did the killer wait for at least 8 minutes before he decided to approach the girls on the Monon High Bridge?

Possibly he waited to see if they would cross the bridge to the end and go down the hill on their own. Leading them to others - if others were involved. When they paused midway, he had to enter the bridge to force them to continue to the end.

jmo/theory

 

[Boxer]

You put a lot of good thought into that. I've pondered it until my head hurts.

In The PCA, the time KG's white car is spotted on the HH cam is used as the drop off time. If you used the time the family has offered (Around 1:37pm) what does that do to your timeline?

Then, suppose he really was there between noon and !:30, where does that take you?

He self reported he was there 1:30-3:30.
A car resembling his passed the HHS video cam at 1:27 - he self reported that he parked at the old Farm Bureau (the old CPS)
He then passed the first group of girls on the trail as they approached the Freedom Bridge. The witness saw the same girls he passd on the trail walking west on the Freedom Bridge as she passed under it to get to 300. She turned onto 300 drove east to park at the Mears Lot.
RA beat her to the MH bridge, she hopped out of her car for a walk and started by going to the MHB where she saw him on platform 1, which he also said he was on.

She turn around walking back and passed A&L who were on their way to the MHB.
She headed back to the Mears lot and then on down to FB and back
To her car.

One can see the MHB for the second half the trail between Mears and MHB - its an old railway and completely straight after the slight bend midway between the two.
He would have to see the girls if he did as he said, watched fish and then walked back to a bench where sat down for a while the then walked back to his car and left.
There were three benches on the trail at that time, one at the trail junction at the Mears lot, which is that is the one he most likely meant, there is another one about halfway to FB and then a third one nearer to FB.
The witness walked by all three of these benches on her loop.

His lies are a form confession.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Trapped and once he looked back over his shoulder and saw nobody coming up the trail from the parking lot side, he probably went very fast towards A&L and that is what probably sparked her to turn on her phone and record him.

If it wasn't for that evidence, even though LE dropped the ball, I don't think RA would have come forward or the LE would never have enough evidence to identify him then arrest him.

No matter how this all shakes out, whether there’s a conviction or not ..
Libby will - for all time - be remembered for her forethought and bravery to record BG.

 

[Book E'm]

7 years now? Thought there would be some justice at this point

MO

 

[susiQ]

How do you know for certain that "he said he did it"? I know LE has said he "confessed" to his wife and his mother over the telephone, but no transcript has been released. I think that if RA actually confessed to murdering the girls to his wife, she would be in the process of divorcing him right now, and so far as I know, she is still supporting him. In my opinion, when this goes to trial, people are going to be disappointed at this so-called "confession". JMO

Totally agree! I’d also like to know what drugs they had him on and who was guarding him when the alleged confession took place. Under certain circumstances a “confession” means absolutely nothing. JMHO

 

[Boxer]

Arrest not that long

7 years now? Thought there would be some justice at this point

MO

Arrest not that long ago.

But Indiana LE was/is lax on its internal performance standards and that shows up constantly.

 

[Justice101]

As far as we have been informed. RA was not seen on the trails after he abducted Abby and Libby. He was seen by a witness walking in the direction of his car on 300n at 3:57pm. IMO he stayed hidden as much as possible after the attack. He may have been on the trail for a piece and then saw other people and went into the woods, ultimately exiting to 300N at some point so he could flee in his car.
He would have been trying to avoid the witnesses and perhaps even the camera if he was aware of it.
IMO it’s quite telling that he was seen right before the crime and right after.

I personally think his plan was to take them back under the bridge and then to the northwest along that Bridge Creek channel. Do what he did.. then go further northwest to where he could cross back across Deer Creek, up the hill and come out right where he parked and not to be seen by anyone.