Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[steeltowngirl]

I don’t believe we know which witness stated his eyes weren’t blue and what the setting he/she observed him. Could have been in the trail under the shade of tree limbs above between 130-2pm or could have been the witness driving alone 300N heading East as he walked west at 3:57 pm. Or someone else entirely.
Please correct me if we know the identity of the witness and when they observed RA.

I do know that I have looked at many images of RA, the most recent being the last time he made an appearance in court. As he came up the stairs and then later going down. His eyes appeared dilated and not blue IMO. In some photos they do appear light slate blue. So perhaps they look different under different circumstances.
I also have watched JG numerous times couldn’t tell you what color her eyes are.
Witnesses aren’t perfect. Thankfully the state has more than one.

Here is one article. I’d forgotten the highlighted part.

“He said the sketch is “an artist’s composite of the information” collected by all agencies involved in the investigation. Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color.

Riley said fear may have played a role in the witness’ decision not to come forward sooner with a description of the suspect.”

Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths

A sheriff says a sketch of a man considered the main suspect in the February killings of two northern Indiana girls was drawn in part from descriptions provided by someone who saw the suspect around the time the girls were slain.

apnews.com

 

[sunshineray]

Sure, right, go on and believe that. But the wife is not divorcing RA, is she? As she would most likely do if he killed those 2 girls. In my opinion, its because he actually did not confess and the prosecutor is way overstating the alleged "confession". Folks need to be more skeptical in their thinking, until the evidence is revealed, in my opinion.

If RA "did not confess" his attorneys, the same two attorneys he has now, would never have acknowledged he said it. I'm sure these confessions will be brought forth at trial. AJMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Has anybody attempted to map this? I am geoloco challenged.

Would welcome a map of bridges in relation to paths, benches, parking lots, etc.

@skibaboo put together an excellent case map file in the first media thread. May be something in there.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION'
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[susiQ]

I don’t believe we know which witness stated his eyes weren’t blue and what the setting he/she observed him. Could have been in the trail under the shade of tree limbs above between 130-2pm or could have been the witness driving alone 300N heading East as he walked west at 3:57 pm. Or someone else entirely.
Please correct me if we know the identity of the witness and when they observed RA.

I do know that I have looked at many images of RA, the most recent being the last time he made an appearance in court. As he came up the stairs and then later going down. His eyes appeared dilated and not blue IMO. In some photos they do appear light slate blue. So perhaps they look different under different circumstances.
I also have watched JG numerous times couldn’t tell you what color her eyes are.
Witnesses aren’t perfect. Thankfully the state has more than one.

In the PC the LE speaking does not identify the witness and that the witness is “not sure” of the eye colour but states they were certain, they “were not blue.” This is actually a good one to recap on because as it turns out, not 2 years later, they did an about face, literally and figuratively. JMHO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

In the PC the LE speaking does not identify the witness and that the witness is “not sure” of the eye colour but states they were certain, they “were not blue.” This is actually a good one to recap on because as it turns out, not 2 years later, they did an about face, literally and figuratively. JMHO

Thanks susiQ, I had been looking for this video.

 

[Boxer]

In this scenario, would he have walked back to his house and left his car parked at the CPS building? Then returned later to get it? That might account for it not being picked up on the HH camera in the relevant timeframe.

There is a way. Bridge creek runs under i25,but one can also just walk north along the shoulder of i25 to the CPS lot, looking like a hitchhiker.

 

[schooling]

I don’t believe we know which witness stated his eyes weren’t blue and what the setting he/she observed him. Could have been in the trail under the shade of tree limbs above between 130-2pm or could have been the witness driving alone 300N heading East as he walked west at 3:57 pm. Or someone else entirely.
Please correct me if we know the identity of the witness and when they observed RA.

I do know that I have looked at many images of RA, the most recent being the last time he made an appearance in court. As he came up the stairs and then later going down. His eyes appeared dilated and not blue IMO. In some photos they do appear light slate blue. So perhaps they look different under different circumstances.
I also have watched JG numerous times couldn’t tell you what color her eyes are.
Witnesses aren’t perfect. Thankfully the state has more than one.

They look slate/grey in the infamous mug shot of RA and a (what I assume is) driver's license picture that the news used before the mugshot was released.

And eye witness testimony is unreliable (MOO but there are plenty of cases out there). I've shared here a few times how my Psych professor staged her own mugging during one of her lectures. She stood on stage, at the lectern, under bright hot lights, in a lecture hall of 400 people. Had someone run in and shove her. Snatch her purse from the shelf under the lectern. They struggle for a second. And he makes a clear break for the emergency exit.

After the shock wore off and we were told it was staged we were all asked to capture our descriptions and they were collected by the TAs and ATAs. Some raised their hands and volunteered to read theirs.

They rolled the 'perp' back out on to the stage.

Pretty much everyone got the description of the perp WILDLY wrong. Even those in the first few rows. I'm talking gender, hair color, build, shorts vs pants, jacket vs no jacket, hat vs no hat.

They reported back how many people actually got their written description fully correct and of those passed in I don't think there was a single person.

This is the kind of event you'd imagine to be memorable. One could argue that the shock of it all is what caused the confusion. But I'd argue that the mundaness of it all could make any descriptions of RA just as inaccurate.

MOO

 

[DeDee]

The PCA States that Abby & Libby were dropped off at 1:49 pm. So from 1:49 5-7 minutes to get to start of bridge and Abby getting to that location that Libby snapped the photo at 2:05 makes perfect sense.

It was Abby's first time going across the bridge and I'd bet she was more cautious than Libby, who was far enough ahead of her to have snapped the photo.

<snipped & BBM>
Through interviews, reviews of electronic records, and review of video at the Hoosier Harvest Store, investigators believe Victim 1 and Victim 2 were dropped off across from the Mears Farm at 1:49 pm on February 13th 2017.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

MOO

Ah, ha. Thought it was obvious I was using the time the family offered as 1:37pm. Thus, I chose one option to answer OP's query and was not going by the AA in that post when I replied. The time of drop off will be straightened, or not, at trial. The HH records could be very important, reliable evidence in the trial. Arrive at 1:49pm and kidnapped by 2:13pm is spine tingling.

"In The PCA, the time KG's white car is spotted on the HH cam is used as the drop off time. If you used the time the family has offered (Around 1:37pm) what does that do to your timeline?"

@Boxer since you understand the firearm BG was seen wearing under his blue jacket, can you say whether or not the firearm is in a holster?
Is there a silencer on it? The firearm is not inserted into a pocket and flopping around in the Carhartt pocket, is it? Which direction is the firearm currently pointing in this image?
If it's carried on his right side, which hand would he use to pull it out and point it at the two girls? I'm trying to envision a smooth gun draw without a holster.

Finally - Does everyone agree he's wearing a brownish colored sweatshirt underneath the blue jacket and his right hand is in the pocket of the brownish colored sweatshirt? Maybe his left hand is in his jeans pocket?


This image terrifies me.
credit Who is Richard Allen, the man charged over the 2017 Delphi murders?

 

[Falling Down]

Ah, ha. Thought it was obvious I was using the time the family offered as 1:37pm. Thus, I chose one option to answer OP's query and was not going by the AA in that post when I replied. The time of drop off will be straightened, or not, at trial. The HH records could be very important, reliable evidence in the trial. Arrive at 1:49pm and kidnapped by 2:13pm is spine tingling.

@Boxer since you understand the firearm BG was seen wearing under his blue jacket, can you say whether or not the firearm is in a holster?
Is there a silencer on it? The firearm is not inserted into a pocket and flopping around in the Carhartt pocket, is it? Which direction is the firearm currently pointing in this image?
If it's carried on his right side, which hand would he use to pull it out and point it at the two girls? I'm trying to envision a smooth gun draw without a holster.

Finally - Does everyone agree he's wearing a brownish colored sweatshirt underneath the blue jacket and his right hand is in the pocket of the brownish colored sweatshirt? Maybe his left hand is in his jeans pocket?

View attachment 488083
This image terrifies me.
credit Who is Richard Allen, the man charged over the 2017 Delphi murders?

The image is terrifying, the killer on a mission to murder two girls.

JMO

 

[marv hucker]

I was wondering about that too or if it is possible because BG’s/RA’s clothes were expected to be wet from the stream, mud and blood, I wonder if some of the DNA or evidence from his wet clothes could have dripped or seeped into the open corners of the car keys, the trigger of the gun, the floorboard underneath the car’s carpeted floor, into the sides of the chairs inside of the car, the car’s gears or under the pedals and such? I think one of the articles posted below mentioned that already mentioned that they are checking the seatbelts, the trunk and floorboard of the passenger seat.

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

https://www.science.org/content/article/who-pulled-trigger-gun-muzzle-exhaust-may-complicate-analysis-crime-scenes

DNA found on gun trigger allowed at trial

FRENCH VALLEY – A judge ruled Thursday that DNA evidence on agun believed used to kill a man in a Good Hope parking lot isadmissible during the trial of four suspected gang members chargedwit…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

The forensic use of luminol chemiluminescence to detect traces of blood inside motor vehicles - PubMed

The luminol test for blood was carried out on a set of interior fittings and surfaces inside three different makes of modern motor car. The surfaces and fittings provided little interference with the test for blood, although there was some detectable chemiluminescence when the test was applied...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exploring the limits for the survival of DNA in blood stains - PubMed

It is generally recognized that usable DNA may be retained in dry biological stains for years. We have explored the environmental limits for this property. Air-dried blood stains were incubated at different conditions of relative humidity (RH) and temperature. The quality of the extracted DNA...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What is annoying is you would think this sort of search would be a lot more telling likely if he had been apprehended weeks, or months after the fact.

I don’t know how long minute DNA traces can survive on a surface in daily usage.
Probably not 6 years.

 

[Andieinsyd]

DeDee Yes I have always thought he is wearing a brown hoodie under the blue jacket with hood up

 

[steeltowngirl]

There is a way. Bridge creek runs under i25,but one can also just walk north along the shoulder of i25 to the CPS lot, looking like a hitchhiker.

Is it around Smith Dairy Farm or Van Der Volgen overlook?

https://cityofdelphi.org/document-library/community-information/biking-and-hiking-trails/680-delphi-trails-map-updated-2011/file

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

 

[FromGermany1]

Is it around Smith Dairy Farm or Van Der Volgen overlook?

View attachment 488098

https://cityofdelphi.org/document-library/community-information/biking-and-hiking-trails/680-delphi-trails-map-updated-2011/file

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

I don't understand the map quite well and a possible (new) walking route by BG, but I want to ask: is there some point, where the white van parked on the side of a road? Afaik, it was the road between IP and the MHB area. If another walking route by BG seems to have been taken by BG, is the white van then more a less a vehicle, which could have been used by an accomplice to the crime?
I don't find a pic of the white van, although there were some years ago. Do you remember the pics, I mean?
-.-
Btw, Ashley C. - does he look like RA's twin in younger years? Or am I hallucinating a bit?

Family of man being eyed by cops over Delphi railtrack murders speak

Detectives last week confirmed they are 'looking into' 42-year-old James Chadwell II in relation to the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail 'Abby' Williams and 14-year-old Liberty 'Libby' German in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[mrjitty]

It’s not uncommon for spouses to be in denial in cases like these. Many don’t file for divorce until after conviction for a plethora of reasons. Pressure from family, financial advantages, genuine denial, or how it may taint the jury pool.
The jail recorded the calls and forwarded it to prosecution. Defense verified that the statements were incriminating.
I see no reason to doubt their validity.

In every case i have followed the family has at the very least supported the murderer if not actively colluded to obstruct justice. Parents, spouses, siblings, kids

His wife sticking by him means nothing IMO

 

[lightofmine99]

Family continuing to "support" the obviously guilty defendant or appearing to do so could also be explained by the sunk cost fallacy. It's sad and confusing but still understandable for the public to look at them and think "Errrm what the flip?"

We hope they seek help, are able to come to terms with reality, and heal. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

Ah, ha. Thought it was obvious I was using the time the family offered as 1:37pm. Thus, I chose one option to answer OP's query and was not going by the AA in that post when I replied. The time of drop off will be straightened, or not, at trial. The HH records could be very important, reliable evidence in the trial. Arrive at 1:49pm and kidnapped by 2:13pm is spine tingling.

@Boxer since you understand the firearm BG was seen wearing under his blue jacket, can you say whether or not the firearm is in a holster?
Is there a silencer on it? The firearm is not inserted into a pocket and flopping around in the Carhartt pocket, is it? Which direction is the firearm currently pointing in this image?
If it's carried on his right side, which hand would he use to pull it out and point it at the two girls? I'm trying to envision a smooth gun draw without a holster.

Finally - Does everyone agree he's wearing a brownish colored sweatshirt underneath the blue jacket and his right hand is in the pocket of the brownish colored sweatshirt? Maybe his left hand is in his jeans pocket?

View attachment 488083
This image terrifies me.
credit Who is Richard Allen, the man charged over the 2017 Delphi murders?

MOO just in tge pocket of the blue jacket or whatever is the layer below. Nothing fancy, just a gun in his pocket with the grip, the heavy part inward to his center if mass.

 

[Ravenmoon]

What is annoying is you would think this sort of search would be a lot more telling likely if he had been apprehended weeks, or months after the fact.

I don’t know how long minute DNA traces can survive on a surface in daily usage.
Probably not 6 years.

Isolated DNA stored dry for years (up to 30) is difficult to dissolve and may appear degraded, but a sample stored dry for 13 years and then in solution at -20 degrees C for 7 years appeared to be intact.


DNA banking: the effects of storage of blood and isolated DNA on the integrity of DNA - PubMed.


DNA can last longer than most of us would believe. I mean, they say that scientists have the ability to bring back certain species including the Tasmanian tiger as well as the Dodo.

favorable conditions DNA can survive for thousands of years in the remains of dead organisms. The DNA extracted from such remains is invariably degraded to a small average size by processes that at least partly involve depurination.

Ancient DNA Damage.


DNA is also a powerful tool because when biological evidence from crime scenes is collected and stored properly, forensically valuable DNA can be found on evidence that may be decades old.Jul 2, 2023

WWW.OJO.gov

 

[Willow Knight]

It coming, as soon as RA gets a trial date set.

MOO

Is there any type of limit to how long an accused can delay their trial? I found several different responses to this, but not sure I'm understanding them. Like no limitation on murder? But what about after being charged?

 

[Boxer]

P

Sure, right, go on and believe that. But the wife is not divorcing RA, is she? As she would most likely do if he killed those 2 girls. In my opinion, its because he actually did not confess and the prosecutor is way overstating the alleged "confession". Folks need to be more skeptical in their thinking, until the evidence is revealed, in my opinion.

People don't often divorce their "people," MOO nothing can be discerned either way.

 

[lightofmine99]

Sure, right, go on and believe that. But the wife is not divorcing RA, is she? As she would most likely do if he killed those 2 girls. In my opinion, its because he actually did not confess and the prosecutor is way overstating the alleged "confession". Folks need to be more skeptical in their thinking, until the evidence is revealed, in my opinion.

Wait, so you're saying that he "didn't actually confess" and the prosecutor is being overdramatic just because his wife hasn't filed for divorce yet, which completely ignores how common it is for spouses to "stick by their man" during trials?

Lol!