Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

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Well, defense won’t have to prove RA is innocent. Prosecution will have to prove to a jury that he is guilty BARD.
Well, I wish them best of luck! I am really having a hard time believing he wasn't the one who took the kids off that bridge when witnesses place him there, and one even saw the girls! I'm trying to be fair to him but like... he's looking pretty good for it right now.
 
Might depend on what police were considering circumstantial evidence. In his case, it doesn't look good that he places himself at the bridge, with corroboration by witnesses who saw him there and it doesn't look good that he has no other alibi / doesn't seem to have anyone who can say they saw him during the time the kids were being abducted and killed. It looks bad that he has also made statements to his wife and mother over the phone that are incriminating. The defense is probably going to have a hard time showing that he was 100% innocent in this case beyond a reasonable doubt. I think they're doing their best to say someone else did it but I don't think its gonna be quite good enough to sway a jury. I actually thought we'd be hearing a begging for a plea deal but so far not....

Again, he has no where to go but prison. So the longer he stalls, why not? Now, he is not a "convict" yet. So, he can pretend to be a victim of the state. Once he takes a plea, he agrees that he is a killer of little girls.

He is probably isolated now, due to this case. Living his best life.
 
Notice from Defense (Hennessey) to Prosecution:

Subpoenas for Depositions of Holeman, Mullin, Westerman, Rector
re: P McLeland's contempt motion

1708122131887.png


Hopefully someone notifies Hennessy's office that the prosecutors name is Nick McLeland and not Nick C. Leland as these documents have. Chances are they could cause major problems down the road. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

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Well, in the book, "Down the Hill: My Descent Into The Double Murder In Delphi" by Susan Hendricks, she notes that:

“...although his exact location cannot be confirmed, the tower data shows that Logan’s cell phone was in the Delphi area in the area of the Monon High Bridge Trail.” Later that evening, Logan’s cell phone received separate texts at 7:56 p.m. and 10:16 p.m., and at both times, the data showed that Logan’s phone was “likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where [Libby’s] and [Abby]’s bodies were located.”

So it seems that whatever service provider RL was using was able to connect to the tower in the general area of where the kids were found. I do acknowledge though that some service providers have weaker signals than others and some work in areas where others simply do not.
The first time I read that, many moons ago, I wondered why they thought this was unusual.

RL’s home is right there. The girls were found on his property.

Why is it impossible to think this isn’t normal? Of course his phone pinged in the area. He lives there!

MOO
 
The first time I read that, many moons ago, I wondered why they thought this was unusual.

RL’s home is right there. The girls were found on his property.

Why is it impossible to think this isn’t normal? Of course his phone pinged in the area. He lives there!

MOO

RL house is about 1200 ft from the crime scene, so what they mean by "vicinity" is important.
 
The Kokomo crew is a scary bunch, and their involvement would not surprise me.

jmo
So, if one thinks it’s possible that others are involved, whether the Kokomo crew or Odinists, where does that leave RA? If, as many here believe, RA IS the killer, where is the evidence of his connection to anybody else that may have been involved? Some here argue that RA was “forensically aware” and left his phone at home, but what about every other day of his life leading up to that dreadful day? If others are being sought by LE and the investigation is still open (as they claim because they believe others could be involved), when and how did RA communicate with them without leaving a trace??

R & B state that there is no digital or phone evidence that links him to the CS. Now, perhaps the Rushville crew were also forensically aware and left their phones at home. Same deal. Who were they communicating with every other day of their lives leading up to that fateful day? Why after learning that EF had guilty knowledge of the CS were his phone records not investigated? Or, the people he was involved with. What connections would that line of investigation have revealed?

Now, I’m no investigator, but if I were and I had learned of EF’s admission to his sister, I would have gone after his phone records and not just the day of. And, because I would have known that there’s no way a man with the mind of an 8 year old could pull off this crime by himself, I would have looked very closely at his “friends” too, and then their friends as well. Now that’s a trail worth investigating, but it was never done. WHY? Oh, and how convenient that interviews were taped over. I just can’t believe Nick’s luck! Must have a horseshoe up his ar$e.

Four attorneys believe RA to be innocent. That’s something. They’ve all seen the discovery. It will be interesting to see what NMcC has that will place RA at the CS, AS THE KILLER. The fact that he was there that day is not all that convincing to me. He doesn’t look anything like that second sketch that was released, which was actually the first one done. He doesn’t much look like the original either, IMO. Don’t even get me started on that topic. DC and his word salads. :rolleyes:

All MOO.
 
What's the thing with the "forensically aware" and the phone? Didn't he say he was watching a stock ticker on the phone on the trails at some point? Confused, wouldn't that mean he had a phone? Okay, I think I see. So he would say he had the phone, but in actuality, he did not have it? Is that the idea?
 
I have no doubt LE, ISP & FBI didn't pull all the relevant phone tower information available in 2017. RA said he had his phone with him, on and checking the stock ticker during his brisk walking on the bridge and watching fish.

The information will be included in that tower dump and if it isn't, or it is out of his normal pattern usage, they will know that too, plus his arrival and departure times as well hopefully.

IMO
It that info isn't there, that will be huge, agreed. But if he were "forensically aware," he'd know that saying he did have the phone-- if he did not-- would be even more of a red flag than truthfully noting in the first place he didn't have it.
 
So, if one thinks it’s possible that others are involved, whether the Kokomo crew or Odinists, where does that leave RA? If, as many here believe, RA IS the killer, where is the evidence of his connection to anybody else that may have been involved? Some here argue that RA was “forensically aware” and left his phone at home, but what about every other day of his life leading up to that dreadful day? If others are being sought by LE and the investigation is still open (as they claim because they believe others could be involved), when and how did RA communicate with them without leaving a trace??

R & B state that there is no digital or phone evidence that links him to the CS. Now, perhaps the Rushville crew were also forensically aware and left their phones at home. Same deal. Who were they communicating with every other day of their lives leading up to that fateful day? Why after learning that EF had guilty knowledge of the CS were his phone records not investigated? Or, the people he was involved with. What connections would that line of investigation have revealed?

Now, I’m no investigator, but if I were and I had learned of EF’s admission to his sister, I would have gone after his phone records and not just the day of. And, because I would have known that there’s no way a man with the mind of an 8 year old could pull off this crime by himself, I would have looked very closely at his “friends” too, and then their friends as well. Now that’s a trail worth investigating, but it was never done. WHY? Oh, and how convenient that interviews were taped over. I just can’t believe Nick’s luck! Must have a horseshoe up his ar$e.

Four attorneys believe RA to be innocent. That’s something. They’ve all seen the discovery. It will be interesting to see what NMcC has that will place RA at the CS, AS THE KILLER. The fact that he was there that day is not all that convincing to me. He doesn’t look anything like that second sketch that was released, which was actually the first one done. He doesn’t much look like the original either, IMO. Don’t even get me started on that topic. DC and his word salads. :rolleyes:

All MOO.
If others are involved then RA is covering for them through fear or allegience. The crime he is charged with occurs on the bridge.

MOO he acted alone impulsively and was making an attempt to cover the bodies when DM showed up shouting for the girls so RA stopped and made his wsy out by the road, not the trail where he heard the calling.
 
What the prosecution needs to prove BARD is that he was the one on the bridge that told them to go down the hill.
Yes. Good reminder. If a jury believes RA=BG, then they should find him guilty of the charge of murder 35-42-1-1(2).

“The doctrine of felony murder allows the State to prosecute individuals for murder even if they are not the person that directly caused the death of another. A person convicted of felony murder faces the same penalty range as murder (45-65 years). To convict someone of felony murder, the State must prove that a death occurred while the defendant was committing or attempting to commit one of these felonies:

Burglary- Child molest- Arson- Rape- Kidnapping- Robbery- Carjacking- Drug Dealing/Manufacturing”

 
So, if one thinks it’s possible that others are involved, whether the Kokomo crew or Odinists, where does that leave RA?
Even if others are involved, if RA=BG, then RA could be found guilty of felony murder.

The prosecutor has stated that he “believes Allen is not the only one responsible for the murders”. Prosecutor in Delphi murder case says case is 'very solid' as judge considers whether to release document with state’s evidence

One of the major issues with the FM is that it released details that interfered with an active investigation.

jmo
 
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What's the thing with the "forensically aware" and the phone? Didn't he say he was watching a stock ticker on the phone on the trails at some point? Confused, wouldn't that mean he had a phone? Okay, I think I see. So he would say he had the phone, but in actuality, he did not have it? Is that the idea?
Or... he had a second phone.

And thought that by coming forward early, voluntarily and preemptively, they'd check him off and look no further.

It almost worked.

JMO
 
So, if one thinks it’s possible that others are involved, whether the Kokomo crew or Odinists, where does that leave RA? If, as many here believe, RA IS the killer, where is the evidence of his connection to anybody else that may have been involved? Some here argue that RA was “forensically aware” and left his phone at home, but what about every other day of his life leading up to that dreadful day? If others are being sought by LE and the investigation is still open (as they claim because they believe others could be involved), when and how did RA communicate with them without leaving a trace??

R & B state that there is no digital or phone evidence that links him to the CS. Now, perhaps the Rushville crew were also forensically aware and left their phones at home. Same deal. Who were they communicating with every other day of their lives leading up to that fateful day? Why after learning that EF had guilty knowledge of the CS were his phone records not investigated? Or, the people he was involved with. What connections would that line of investigation have revealed?

Now, I’m no investigator, but if I were and I had learned of EF’s admission to his sister, I would have gone after his phone records and not just the day of. And, because I would have known that there’s no way a man with the mind of an 8 year old could pull off this crime by himself, I would have looked very closely at his “friends” too, and then their friends as well. Now that’s a trail worth investigating, but it was never done. WHY? Oh, and how convenient that interviews were taped over. I just can’t believe Nick’s luck! Must have a horseshoe up his ar$e.

Four attorneys believe RA to be innocent. That’s something. They’ve all seen the discovery. It will be interesting to see what NMcC has that will place RA at the CS, AS THE KILLER. The fact that he was there that day is not all that convincing to me. He doesn’t look anything like that second sketch that was released, which was actually the first one done. He doesn’t much look like the original either, IMO. Don’t even get me started on that topic. DC and his word salads. :rolleyes:

All MOO.
RSBBM
<Four attorneys believe RA to be innocent. That’s something. They’ve all seen the discovery. It will be interesting to see what NMcC has that will place RA at the CS, AS THE KILLER.>


Four DEFENSE attorneys who were appointed and paid to defend RA have made this claim (Lebrato is still debatable to me). What else are they going to possibly say other than their client is innocent?

How do we know that LE didn't go after EF's phone (if he had one) or what process they used to eliminate him or any of the other POIs? I'm pretty sure DNA was taken from just about anybody LE considered a legitimate, possibility.

The State has not disclosed their investigative actions, nor do they have to, nor should they. We must wait until trial to hear for ourselves how they've concluded RA=BG=Killer.

To me, the video Libby took of BG looks exactly like RA, down to the certain way his jeans bag at the bottom. You don't think so, I can respect that. It just goes to show you how interpretive these things can be.

MOO
 
Or... he had a second phone.

And thought that by coming forward early, voluntarily and preemptively, they'd check him off and look no further.

It almost worked.

JMO
Yes, just look at the SW results, RA LOVED his phones, of all kinds. I believe that is why the IMEI or MEID is noted by Dulin. RA could have shown him a completely different phone that actually din't have a connection to the CS.

But after the SW, I feel confident LE would have compared all the phone's seized against any cell tower information they recovered.

MOO
 
Four attorneys believe RA to be innocent. That’s something. They’ve all seen the discovery. It will be interesting to see what NMcC has that will place RA at the CS, AS THE KILLER. The fact that he was there that day is not all that convincing to me. He doesn’t look anything like that second sketch that was released, which was actually the first one done. He doesn’t much look like the original either, IMO. Don’t even get me started on that topic. DC and his word salads. :rolleyes:

All MOO.

sbm. IMO I don't believe they have much if anything in that department unless something else has been found, and it would need to be big like DNA. The hint (other than stating it in depos lol) they have very little tying him to the crime scene came with their reliance on felony murder and the insistence that RA is BG .

I agree with you on EF. I keep hearing that RA has "confessed" (as an aside, should we expect an investigation on how that leaked?) well... he's not the only one. And that's what the defense is going with.
 
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sbm. IMO I don't believe they have much if anything in that department unless something else has been found, and it would need to be big like DNA. The hint (other than stating it in depos lol) they have very little tying him to the crime scene came with their reliance on felony murder and the insistence that RA is BG .
We only have the D's version of the recent depos, I don't believe the State's depositions have been made public. I don't even know if the Defense's actual version of their own depositions of LE have been made public. They 'footnoted' them in their Memo for Franks Hearing, but I don't recall actually reading those. Do you know if those were made public, I'd love to read them myself.
I agree with you on EF. I keep hearing that RA has "confessed" (as an aside, should we expect an investigation on how that leaked?) well... he's not the only one. And that's what the defense is going with.
RA confessed 5 times on a recorded jail phone line to his wife and mother. It was discussed in the July hearings when the Defense made a Motion to address bond and a transfer.

It wasn't leaked, it was part of the Court record that day. Both the State and Defense acknowledged that yes, RA had made those confessions (says State) incriminating statements (says Defense), the scary Odins made him do it under duress.

JMO
 
We only have the D's version of the recent depos, I don't believe the State's depositions have been made public. I don't even know if the Defense's actual version of their own depositions of LE have been made public. They 'footnoted' them in their Memo for Franks Hearing, but I don't recall actually reading those. Do you know if those were made public, I'd love to read them myself.

RA confessed 5 times on a recorded jail phone line to his wife and mother. It was discussed in the July hearings when the Defense made a Motion to address bond and a transfer.

It wasn't leaked, it was part of the Court record that day. Both the State and Defense acknowledged that yes, RA had made those confessions (says State) incriminating statements (says Defense), the scary Odins made him do it under duress.

JMO
I don't believe there will be material differences in what showed up in the Franks Memo and what the investigators stated in their recorded depositions, which tracks with the felony murder angle. As for the alleged confessions, I would need to go back but iirc it was in the press first before any pleadings from the hearings had been made public or for that matter the hearing even happening.
 
I don't believe there will be material differences in what showed up in the Franks Memo and what the investigators stated in their recorded depositions, which tracks with the felony murder angle. As for the alleged confessions, I would need to go back but iirc it was in the press first before any pleadings from the hearings had been made public or for that matter the hearing even happening.
DELPHI, Ind. – Documents unsealed Wednesday in the 2017 Delphi murders provide new insight into the case against Richard Allen.

They also reveal for the first time publicly how investigators believe Abby Williams and Libby German were killed. Allen County Judge Frances Gull, assigned to oversee the high-profile case, unsealed nearly 120 documents Wednesday. An additional 19 filings remain sealed.

You can find the documents here.

The documents reveal, among other things, that Allen admitted to his wife during a phone call that he was responsible for killing the teens.

 
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