Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[FrostedGlass]

At least the prosecution immediately tried to make it right by withdrawing the request. They also explained in detail how the ex parte came to them.
Other than admitting they were the source of the crime scene photos leak, the defense has never admitted doing anything wrong, and never tried to make anything right.
Big differences about how things have been handled.

MOO
I'm not sure he withdrew for noble reasons; maybe he was told by the judge it would be in his best interest to withdraw it. The Ds have not been found guilty of anything yet other than what they admitted to.

If it was within Gull's power to find the Ds in contempt, she should have just done that instead of inviting this circus into her courtroom. Such a fiasco for a low level charge. smh...

Nick's kind of squirmy in his wording in the motion to withdraw; the email was addressed to the Judge:
"8. That the State was notified by the Defense on March 7, 2024 via email addressed to the Judge that the filing should have been sealed and that the State should not have been given access."

 

[sunshineray]

Probably because it should have been included in the discovery deadline. Considering Gull decided to kick the D off the case around that time, they didn't know the totality of what they had. They're still trying to get it all but Nick seems to have a problem turning discovery over, according to the filings. Seems to me it the P who is holding things up.

Attorneys should not have to ask for every individual item of discovery.

I agree it's all too slow of a process. It seems like turning over discovery on time though was a problem on both sides. Wasn't it just recently the prosecution had to asked numerous times for discovery from the defense?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree it's all too slow of a process. It seems like turning over discovery on time though was a problem on both sides. Wasn't it just recently the prosecution had to asked numerous times for discovery from the defense?

The only thing I remember is both of them asking for a deadline for the next hearing. If you've got a link where the P is claiming the Ds have not turned over their discovery, please share.

Since the P has been slow, that of course causes problems for the D to get their stuff done in a timely manner. I suspect P knows that.

 

[sunshineray]

The only thing I remember is both of them asking for a deadline for the next hearing. If you've got a link where the P is claiming the Ds have not turned over their discovery, please share.

Since the P has been slow, that of course causes problems for the D to get their stuff done in a timely manner. I suspect P knows that.

I'm not good at finding these court filings where they are originally posted. I believe this was about a month ago?

 

[FrostedGlass]

@sunshineray It was filed on 1/27/2024 @ 12:05 am.

The Ds were told by the JG to discontinue their work on RA's case around the middle of October. They weren't re-instated until Jan 19, 2024. I'm not sure exactly when all the discovery came back into their hands.

Since they were off the case for about three months, there was no discovery during that time for them to turn over. We don't know if Scremin had any or not not; and, if so, did they share it.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I hope every single Podcaster, YouTuber, SM influencer and 'Defense experts' and so called 'Journalists' writing books who have chimed in, inserted themselves, tweeted, and made blood money off of the murders of these 2 young girls go broke and get run off SM completely and out of business for good. Every single one period, they're vultures.

ALL MOO

100% Even here I can tell who listens to which fan channels by the use of too-clever nicknames and phrases. I’ll see this case through, but it has soured me on the commodification of True Crime.

 

[susiQ]

I'm not good at finding these court filings where they are originally posted. I believe this was about a month ago?View attachment 490212View attachment 490213View attachment 490214

The problem with this is number 3 which is a lie according to the recent filing by the defense for sanctions against the P. Of course, many here believe the D do nothing but lie. I think NMcL HAS to lie to cover the last lie that covers the lie before.

MOO, but this is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. It’s not the defense that are shaking in their boots right now, it’s NMcL. He can’t have this going to trial. I’ve said before, this emperor has NO clothes. The D are willing to let ancillary issues be dealt with without hearing OR post trial in an attempt to get this thing going. Not the P. He needs to stall it some more.

 

[sunshineray]

@sunshineray It was filed on 1/27/2024 @ 12:05 am.

The Ds were told by the JG to discontinue their work on RA's case around the middle of October. They weren't re-instated until Jan 19, 2024. I'm not sure exactly when all the discovery came back into their hands.

Since they were off the case for about three months, there was no discovery during that time for them to turn over. We don't know if Scremin had any or not not; and, if so, did they share it.

Well hopefully AB & BR did expeditiously turn over everything to the new D at that time. Guess we'll never know.

 

[WildHuncher]

This is why i wish Gull had moved all this sanctions mess to a different court. I am tuning out of it. Wake me up if anything relevant to the trial happens.

Too many players, too many plays, too much chaff blinding my radar.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@susiQ McLeland was scheduled to go to trial in his other Carroll Co. murder case. The trial was due to begin on April 4. Judge Diener granted his request for an interlocutory appeal on March 7 and put a stay on all proceedings in that case. (Willie Smith) That was likely great news for him but the girl accused of murder, who has been sitting in jail for almost 3 years, probably wasn't too pleased with it.

I only have experience with one IA and it took one month to get the appeal on the docket and another one for the court of appeals to deny it. So I figure Nick now has the time he needs to proceed with this one.

 

[sunshineray]

The problem with this is number 3 which is a lie according to the recent filing by the defense for sanctions against the P. Of course, many here believe the D do nothing but lie. I think NMcL HAS to lie to cover the last lie that covers the lie before.

MOO, but this is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. It’s not the defense that are shaking in their boots right now, it’s NMcL. He can’t have this going to trial. I’ve said before, this emperor has NO clothes. The D are willing to let ancillary issues be dealt with without hearing OR post trial in an attempt to get this thing going. Not the P. He needs to stall it some more.

According to the D...I have absolutely no confidence in AB or BR to tell the truth.

The D are charged with contempt and then proceed to clog up court with motion after motion. Now that they've tried to distract the proceedings, yet again, with a log jam they FINALLY file a speedy trial motion. <modsnip>
All Just My Opinion.

 

[FrostedGlass]

According to the D...I have absolutely no confidence in AB or BR to tell the truth.

The D are charged with contempt and then proceed to clog up court with motion after motion. Now that they've tried to distract the proceedings, yet again, with a log jam they FINALLY file a speedy trial motion.<modsnip>
All Just My Opinion.

Well, here's the thing... we don't even know if Hennessy intends to call any of those individuals he named. After all, he did say he "may" call them. They are a mixed bunch; pro for one side or another. We've only heard from a couple from one side. One admitted he's a liar and half the net hates the other. lol.. It's been interesting to see who came scurrying out at first mention. I'm really curious to see what the Prof has in his 2lbs of receipts.

Since we aren't attorneys, our personal opinions don't count for much. IMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Right - but if they had RA's phone on the trails that day, that into would either have been in the PCA or the Franks because it would support one case or the other.

At the moment, given the spare facts that I'm aware that we have, it's a confirmation bias swamp as far as where RA's phone was that day. (Or a theory with reasonable doubt.)

Perhaps someone skilled can provide a map of the geo-tracking area described in the yesterday's Defense discovery motion so we can see if the bridge and/or trails RA states he used that day are even within the geo-track area. (Even so, I'm not sure that solves the confirmation bias conundrum.)

JMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Well hopefully AB & BR did expeditiously turn over everything to the new D at that time. Guess we'll never know.

I don't think the Defense even has a clue to what they actually have and/or don't have. They've admitted in their famous footnotes that due to the voluminous amount of discovery they may actually have a certain thing but just haven't found it yet.

It is not the State's job to provide a document according to the Defense's certain request. They provide full discovery and it's the Defenses's job to review it ALL and gather their own information and generate their own reports. I don't know why now they'd be freaking out to the the tune of a 70 point Motion, when they were ready to go to trial back in January, unless they obviously weren't.

I hope they're working on the reciprocal Discovery for State as well. Both sides are entitled to it, not just the Defense.

It should be an interesting day on the 18th to say the least and I personally hope Judge Gull rules with wisdom and fairness to all parties, this isn't a game. I said back on the 7th anniversary of Abby and Libby's murder in February that I felt big things were going on behind the scenes, but WOW, this isn't what I had in mind.

All MOO

 

[susiQ]

According to the D...I have absolutely no confidence in AB or BR to tell the truth.

The D are charged with contempt and then proceed to clog up court with motion after motion. Now that they've tried to distract the proceedings, yet again, with a log jam they FINALLY file a speedy trial motion.<modsnip>
All Just My Opinion.

And, I have absolutely no confidence in the P, at this point. I’d like to see this go to trial, no more delays and see who has what. What I have seen from the P thus far does not convince me of RA’s guilt. If he had anything to do with this horrid murder, fine, let him rot. But where are the others?? This was not a lone wolf crime, IMO. The P has said it. Some LE have acknowledged it as well, but crickets on that end except for what the D has exposed. Why? If RA was involved, I don’t see how he could not have rolled by now and got himself a deal. My feeling is, innocent men don’t want a deal. They want to be cleared of the false accusation, the truth to come out and justice to be served.

As always, we’re all entitled to an opinion. Once the facts come out, one can still choose to ignore the truth if one chooses. I want the truth. I want justice for the girls and their families. Sadly, the prisons also house inmates that have been incarcerated unjustly, will never get justice, and that’s a crime too.

All MOO.
eta:clarity

 

[sunshineray]

And, I have absolutely no confidence in the P, at this point. I’d like to see this go to trial, no more delays and see who has what. What I have seen from the P thus far does not convince me of RA’s guilt. If he had anything to do with this horrid murder, fine, let him rot. But where are the others?? This was not a lone wolf crime, IMO. The P has said it. Some LE have acknowledged it as well, but crickets on that end except for what the D has exposed. Why? If RA was involved, I don’t see how he could not have rolled by now and got himself a deal. My feeling is, innocent men don’t want a deal. They want to be cleared of the false accusation, the truth to come out and justice to be served.

As always, we’re all entitled to an opinion. Once the facts come out, one can still choose to ignore the truth if one chooses. I want the truth. I want justice for the girls and their families. Sadly, the prisons also house inmates that have been incarcerated unjustly, will never get justice, and that’s a crime too.

All MOO.
eta:clarity

We can agree then, we both want the truth and justice.

 

[Emma Peel]

Well, here's the thing... we don't even know if Hennessy intends to call any of those individuals he named. After all, he did say he "may" call them. They are a mixed bunch; pro for one side or another. We've only heard from a couple from one side. One admitted he's a liar and half the net hates the other. lol.. It's been interesting to see who came scurrying out at first mention. I'm really curious to see what the Prof has in his 2lbs of receipts.

Since we aren't attorneys, our personal opinions don't count for much. IMO

Jumping off your post ...

IMO: The youtubers write-in opinions are completely irrelevant except as revelation of the character of these colorful characters.

We'll see if any are called as witnesses; they'd need to have relevant testimony as to leaks, I would think.

This Social Media mess Hennessey intentionally brought into the discussion offers ...
a) color commentary on the state of unprofessional, non-journalistic social media frenzy re: this case
b) evidence of LE/State leaking, of the Court itself leaking ... and how LE leaking helped create the expectation and appetite of "content creators" for more leaks.

Most of the names listed on Hennessey' exhibit list - IMO - don't have journalistic privilege. One must be employed as a journalist or work for a recognized news organization engaged in gathering and disseminating news to the public to enjoy journalistic privileges (such as protection from disclosing sources)

TV/radio news associated broadcasters & Newspaper reporters, Court TV reporters ... are journalists who can claim journalistic privilege. (e.g. in this case: Barb McDonald as long as she's employed by a new organization, the local TV reporters that stay on top of this case.)

JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

At the moment, given the spare facts that I'm aware that we have, it's a confirmation bias swamp as far as where RA's phone was that day. (Or a theory with reasonable doubt.)

Perhaps someone skilled can provide a map of the geo-tracking area described in the yesterday's Defense discovery motion so we can see if the bridge and/or trails RA states he used that day are even within the geo-track area. (Even so, I'm not sure that solves the confirmation bias conundrum.)

JMHO

I'm a long way from skilled but here is a very simple map to show the approximate area of the geo track map.
I put the marker at the starting point of the water's edge, then the next marker south is about 50' away. The third marker at the bottom is about 300' from the 50' one.

Road 625 is the private drive that runs under the bridge. At the far left, High Bridge crosses the water, then land, then ends just past where the private drive crosses under it. You have to imagine a 300' circle because I wasn't skilled enough to circle the entire 300' area.

What is evident is the neither the bridge nor the trails are near the geo track area. What really matters here, according to the filing, is the second phone found within the circled area.

Someone could put the coordinates in a map and get a more accurate location.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Is the Defense really trying to get the March 18th hearing cancelled?( Maybe I am misunderstanding?)
They are only asking that a judgement be made?

If this is true, why would they ask for just a judgement when they were so upset with JG that she didn't provide a hearing, but instead dismissed them in chambers?

 

[Emma Peel]

MOO
I'm not sure he withdrew for noble reasons; maybe he was told by the judge it would be in his best interest to withdraw it. The Ds have not been found guilty of anything yet other than what they admitted to.

If it was within Gull's power to find the Ds in contempt, she should have just done that instead of inviting this circus into her courtroom. Such a fiasco for a low level charge. smh...

Nick's kind of squirmy in his wording in the motion to withdraw; the email was addressed to the Judge:
"8. That the State was notified by the Defense on March 7, 2024 via email addressed to the Judge that the filing should have been sealed and that the State should not have been given access."

McL's withdrawal attempts to obfuscate. But it's a bit like a kid holding half a stolen cookie and talking about the bird that just flew away with the other half.

I'd put money on a sternly worded correspondence (perhaps sealed) from Baldwin/Rozzi to the Court, copy McL as being the trigger for McL's withdrawal - that correspondence likely indicating they would be formally motioning over it.

As you say, it was in Gull's power to immediately call out and sanction McL. She could have - because McL's breach here is not absolved b/c someone gave McL the ex parte. It's about McL reading the ex parte, failing to advise the opposition that he'd received something he shouldn't have, acting on ill-gotten info to his advantage (motion) and violating Gull's order on ex parte communications. Gull chose to do nothing about it; so the Defense did - as is their right and obligation.

JMHO