Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[Emma Peel]

I'm a long way from skilled but here is a very simple map to show the approximate area of the geo track map.
I put the marker at the starting point of the water's edge, then the next marker south is about 50' away. The third marker at the bottom is about 300' from the 50' one.

Road 625 is the private drive that runs under the bridge. At the far left, High Bridge crosses the water, then land, then ends just past where the private drive crosses under it. You have to imagine a 300' circle because I wasn't skilled enough to circle the entire 300' area.

What is evident is neither the bridge nor the trails are near the geo track area. What really matters here, according to the filing, is the second phone found within the circled area.

Someone could put the coordinates in a map and get a more accurate location.
View attachment 490225

Wow! You're a wishing well! I'll be back with some pennies. Thank you.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Wow! You're a wishing well! I'll be back with some pennies. Thank you.

You're welcome.
I wish I could go back and edit your quote to say "neither the bridge nor the trails" but I can't fix it.
I wish someone would come along and to a better job. Where's our map makers?!

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is the Defense really trying to get the March 18th hearing cancelled?( Maybe I am misunderstanding?)
They are only asking that a judgement be made?

If this is true, why would they ask for just a judgement when they were so upset with JG that she didn't provide a hearing, but instead dismissed them in chambers?

IDK, the Judge has already given them one extension I don't think there will be another. They simply do not want to have to face the consequences of the serious misconduct allegations IMO.

Their ill thought out plan turned on them. The Defense was going to call all these SM and YT to try and paint a nefarious picture of NMcL, leaks and incompetence from the Prosecution. Classic move - Look over there not over here.

Instead they've managed to paint a true portrait of themselves.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I'm a long way from skilled but here is a very simple map to show the approximate area of the geo track map.
I put the marker at the starting point of the water's edge, then the next marker south is about 50' away. The third marker at the bottom is about 300' from the 50' one.

Road 625 is the private drive that runs under the bridge. At the far left, High Bridge crosses the water, then land, then ends just past where the private drive crosses under it. You have to imagine a 300' circle because I wasn't skilled enough to circle the entire 300' area.

What is evident is the neither the bridge nor the trails are near the geo track area. What really matters here, according to the filing, is the second phone found within the circled area.

Someone could put the coordinates in a map and get a more accurate location.
View attachment 490225

Thanks for your work here.
Also on page 1 of this thread is Skipaboo’s map. There’s a handy measuring tool on there.
It’s in feet not yards ( yards was the measuring unit used in yesterday’s filing). And meters which is no help to this lady.
I guess my second thought would be define crime scene. Did it start at the abduction point? Does it include where clothing was found in creek? Or is it limited to where these sweet girls were found?
Because it can greatly expand that 60-100 yard area.

 

[FrostedGlass]

IDK, the Judge has already given them one extension I don't think there will be another. They simply do not want to have to face the consequences of the serious misconduct allegations IMO.

Their ill thought out plan turned on them. The Defense was going to call all these SM and YT to try and paint a nefarious picture of NMcL, leaks and incompetence from the Prosecution. Classic move - Look over there not over here.

Instead they've managed to paint a true portrait of themselves.

MOO

Was the part that I emphasized this one where she set a hearing date with total disregard for the D's schedule? Or is there another one?

02/01/2024

Order Issued Court orders the State's Motion to Amend Information, filed January 18, 2024, and the State's Verified Information of Contemptuous Conduct, filed January 29, 2024, set for hearing on February 12, 2024, at 9:00 a.m. in the Allen Superior Court. Court will issue a Transport Order to have the defendant present. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 02/01/2024

 

[layer]

I'm a long way from skilled but here is a very simple map to show the approximate area of the geo track map.
I put the marker at the starting point of the water's edge, then the next marker south is about 50' away. The third marker at the bottom is about 300' from the 50' one.

Road 625 is the private drive that runs under the bridge. At the far left, High Bridge crosses the water, then land, then ends just past where the private drive crosses under it. You have to imagine a 300' circle because I wasn't skilled enough to circle the entire 300' area.

What is evident is the neither the bridge nor the trails are near the geo track area. What really matters here, according to the filing, is the second phone found within the circled area.

Someone could put the coordinates in a map and get a more accurate location.
View attachment 490225

So apparently all of these phones that were geofenced within 100 yards could NOT have been from the bridge, the trails, the cemetery, the private drive that goes under the bridge, or the house it goes to. Frankly I'm surprised. I didn't realize the distances were this great but I plotted it out myself on Google Earth.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thanks for your work here.
Also on page 1 of this thread is Skipaboo’s map. There’s a handy measuring tool on there.
It’s in feet not yards ( yards was the measuring unit used in yesterday’s filing). And meters which is no help to this lady.
I guess my second thought would be define crime scene. Did it start at the abduction point? Does it include where clothing was found in creek? Or is it limited to where these sweet girls were found?
Because it can greatly expand that 60-100 yard area.

You're welcome.

In @Emma Peel s post, Point 31. Within 60 to 100 yds of where the girls' bodies were ultimately found the following day.

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

This will liven things up a bit... maybe: 03/12/2024 Motion To Compel Motion to Compel and Request for Sanctions Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 03/12/2024

www.websleuths.com

 

[layer]

Thanks for your work here.
Also on page 1 of this thread is Skipaboo’s map. There’s a handy measuring tool on there.
It’s in feet not yards ( yards was the measuring unit used in yesterday’s filing). And meters which is no help to this lady.
I guess my second thought would be define crime scene. Did it start at the abduction point? Does it include where clothing was found in creek? Or is it limited to where these sweet girls were found?
Because it can greatly expand that 60-100 yard area.

Great question!

I had to dig up the specifics myself, having only glanced at it before. Here are the pertinent sections:


Source

 

[FrostedGlass]

So apparently all of these phones that were geofenced within 100 yards could NOT have been from the bridge, the trails, the cemetery, the private drive that goes under the bridge, or the house it goes to. Frankly I'm surprised. I didn't realize the distances were this great but I plotted it out myself on Google Earth.

Try to figure these measurements out; we tried but couldn't make it work:

Community shaken, saddened by bodies found in Delphi

A small Carroll County community is stunned by the discovery of two bodies, hours after two teenage girls were reported missing.

www.wthr.com

Author: David MacAnally
Published: 5:21 PM EST February 14, 2017
Updated: 6:09 PM EST February 16, 2017

"It's tragic,” Jennifer Robinson. “This is a family, this is a family town. We all have kids around here and that's kind of scary."
The crime scene is about the length of a football field from Robinson’s back door.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Great question!

I had to dig up the specifics myself, having only glanced at it before. Here are the pertinent sections:

View attachment 490240
Source

Yes call me skeptic. I think a lot of belie is being used here.
Give me specifics and the correct date.
The fact that there isn’t a detailed statement is telling.
Something like “ a phone tracking map was found showed 3 phones that intersected and followed the phone of victim then proceeded to stay at final crime scene from 2:25-3:45pm on 2/13/17.” That would be damning to me.
Multiple phones traveling around the trails or nearby road from 12:39-5:49pm does not seem like exculpatory evidence to me.
Not since the crime occurred over a time of 90 minutes or so and involved a sharp instrument.

 

[layer]

Yes call me skeptic. I think a lot of belie is being used here.
Give me specifics and the correct date.
The fact that there isn’t a detailed statement is telling.
Something like “ a phone tracking map was found showed 3 phones that intersected and followed the phone of victim then proceeded to stay at final crime scene from 2:25-3:45pm on 2/13/17.” That would be damning to me.
Multiple phones traveling around the trails or highway from 12:39-5:49pm does not seem like exculpatory evidence to me.
Not since the crime occurred over a time of 90 minutes or so and involved a sharp instrument.

If you are a skeptic you are in my tribe. I notice a lot of slick wording on all sides of this case. And a lot of ineptitude all around. Dates have been getting scrambled all along - from the differing dates on the obits to the wrong date in the PCA and on and on. As for specificity, I don't think more than what was given was needed for the intent of the motion to compel and request for sanctions. I want all the specifics and details there are. I'd love to see that map.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes call me skeptic. I think a lot of belie is being used here.
Give me specifics and the correct date.
The fact that there isn’t a detailed statement is telling.
Something like “ a phone tracking map was found showed 3 phones that intersected and followed the phone of victim then proceeded to stay at final crime scene from 2:25-3:45pm on 2/13/17.” That would be damning to me.
Multiple phones traveling around the trails or nearby road from 12:39-5:49pm does not seem like exculpatory evidence to me.
Not since the crime occurred over a time of 90 minutes or so and involved a sharp instrument.

I find it suspect myself, they've had geofencing discovery since October 6th, 2023 they 'believe'. Either you had it or not and that's been almost 6 months.

Plus, they and their attorneys (appellate and Hennessy) say R&B have been ready to go for January trial the whole time. One of the main reasons they argued it would be unfair to RA to disqualify them. This doesn't sound like a Motion of a prepared, professional Defense team to me.

I guess we'll see how it all shakes out eventually, but I can't stand the thought that Abby & Libby seem to have been forgotten in all of this mud slinging. Their families and loved ones must be completely devastated.


JMO

 

[mrjitty]

i have a hard time believing that the real killers were all milling round the crime scene with their phones on but LE decided not to investigate them all

personally i am just going to wait for trial. if this evidence really exists the defence will be able to present it and win the case.

 

[Emma Peel]

i have a hard time believing that the real killers were all milling round the crime scene with their phones on but LE decided not to investigate them all

personally i am just going to wait for trial. if this evidence really exists the defence will be able to present it and win the case.

Understood. It is a lot of phones, isn't it?! I'm with you on waiting for trial. If I may, I'll underscroe one little point (that I am sure you already know) - just for sake of staying on point w/ the subject motion:

The Defense cannot present the evidence when the prosecution doesn't hand it over with discovery.

 

[mrjitty]

Understood. It is a lot of phones, isn't it?! I'm with you on waiting for trial. If I may, I'll underscroe one little point (that I am sure you already know) - just for sake of staying on point w/ the subject motion:

The Defense cannot present the evidence when the prosecution doesn't hand it over with discovery.

they already have the geofence data so they can present it and ask if any of those are the killers. burden is on prosecution

like you say presumably all those phones were identified long ago. and of course it should be discovered. it’s just the efforts to use these motions for public story telling which i object to.

let’s see if this is really a thing at trial!

 

[mrjitty]

IMO there are a couple of other things we can infer from this geo-fence info.

60-100 meters is relatively accurate and would tend to suggest we are not talking about just basic azimuth info, but rather they know distance each handset is from the tower at each connection point. (Modern tech provides this distance info via calculating the time the signal needs for a round trip to the phone). Whatever the tech here, it suggests there is some more detailed timeline info not in the PCA that we didn't know about. i.e basically there is a CAST report out there.

1. We know a phone was with the girls and turned on, at least to begin with. So is this going to give us the path of the victims phone to the crime scene? And time?

2. Presumably if no other phone has the same path, this means Bridge Guy did not have an active phone with him. This is quite important IMO

3. I am assuming there is no exculpatory tracking of RAs phone on the trails, whether leaving at 1.30pm as claimed in his police interview, or after 1.30 pm as recorded on the tip sheet. Again critical.

The timeline for the victims arrival at the trail, and path to the crime scene might be more locked down advertised in the PCA. It might also give us approx time of death i.e. when did the victims phone stop moving?

 

[Megnut]

IMO there are a couple of other things we can infer from this geo-fence info.

60-100 meters is relatively accurate and would tend to suggest we are not talking about just basic azimuth info, but rather they know distance each handset is from the tower at each connection point. (Modern tech provides this distance info via calculating the time the signal needs for a round trip to the phone). Whatever the tech here, it suggests there is some more detailed timeline info not in the PCA that we didn't know about. i.e basically there is a CAST report out there.

1. We know a phone was with the girls and turned on, at least to begin with. So is this going to give us the path of the victims phone to the crime scene? And time?

2. Presumably if no other phone has the same path, this means Bridge Guy did not have an active phone with him. This is quite important IMO

3. I am assuming there is no exculpatory tracking of RAs phone on the trails, whether leaving at 1.30pm as claimed in his police interview, or after 1.30 pm as recorded on the tip sheet. Again critical.

The timeline for the victims arrival at the trail, and path to the crime scene might be more locked down advertised in the PCA. It might also give us approx time of death i.e. when did the victims phone stop moving?

Yes! This!

Plus if they did the same for the knowns -- walking lady, juveniles -- that will create quite the visual! It'll timestamp everyone's movements -- KG's phone, LG's phone, other knowns.

It'll be mind-blowing to see in overlay -- how tight the timeline....

And what time RA's phone becomes active again, wherever it was.

No wonder the Defense is desperate.

 

[Emma Peel]

Here's the set of late afternoon filings from yesterday 3/12/2024.

From Hennessey (for the Defense)
Verified Petition to Recuse McLeland from the Contempt Proceedings

 

[Emma Peel]

From Hennessey (for the Defense)
Verified Petition for the RECUSAL (of Judge Gull) from Contempt Proceedings

 

[photographer4]

Yes! This!

Plus if they did the same for the knowns -- walking lady, juveniles -- that will create quite the visual! It'll timestamp everyone's movements -- KG's phone, LG's phone, other knowns.

It'll be mind-blowing to see in overlay -- how tight the timeline....

And what time RA's phone becomes active again, wherever it was.

No wonder the Defense is desperate.

Quick ?:
What is meant by “geo fence victim” in the document late filed yesterday by Def? If it was answered already I missed it as I’m days behind. Ty.