Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[Cyber sleuth]

Why did it take 5 years to arrest him? All I am finding against him is gun ballistics, I thought there was more.

I think the opportunistic nature of the crime, the outdoor isolation of the crime scene and the lack of social media or familial connections made it difficult.
RA chose and isolated spot were there were few witnesses before the crime, only one security camera in the area, outside where it’s difficult to obtain forensics and I don’t believe there is any digital connection between the perpetrator and the victims prior.
Investigators had to go back to good old fashioned methods of solving a crime.
I do think RA made some errors that he had not planned but then again I think he had urges those overrode his logic that day.
I imagine he has functioned with some cognitive dissonance about the event. Kept that monster very separate from his everyday persona and behaviors.
This allowed him to hide in plain sight for those 5 years.

 

[susiQ]

All purely speculation: I fear RA initially told those he spoke with in LE that he had his phone/checking stock ticker. This led them to let their guards down a bit, he had the phone, it could be tracked. If warranted, he would become a suspect via further investigation with the geofence. But then (again, pure speculation), he didn't have the phone after all. He never showed up on the geofence. He would then appear to have "slipped through the cracks" and was never recognized as a suspect. If all that happened (and what a big "if"), that wasn't (MOO) a "slip through the cracks." It would become even more interesting if RA didn't act alone and his fellow perps did have phones. Not saying I think RA is guilty. I've got no idea. But I'll definitely be following the trial.

If he had his phone on, he could be tracked. If he left his phone at home like so many believe, who owned the phones moving around the crime scene area?

 

[Boxer]

With regard to when exactly EF told his sister Mary Jacobs about his previous day, from the FM pg. 91:

“On page 1 of the Odin report, Mary Jacobs told law enforcement that on February 14, 2017,
Elvis was rambling, hyper and borderline incoherent.
He was talking about having a “brother”
(even though Elvis had no male siblings) and was now
part of a “gang.” Elvis told Mary that he
had been on a bridge with two girls that were killed. Elvis told her that someone named Abigail
was a pain in the *advertiser censored* and a troublemaker.”

So much for him just hearing it on the street from locals. It was the day the found the girls! JMO

If he had his phone on, he could be tracked. If he left his phone at home like so many believe, who owned the phones moving around the crime scene area?

Is there evidence of as yet unidentified phones moving around that day?

 

[sunshineray]

These are great questions. The kidnap location (per LE) is the south end of the .6 mile long Monon high railroad bridge that stretches into the woods after passing over the creek, ending at the edge of private property and private roads accessible by public roads on the south.

So, the point of abduction is on the south end, more than 1/2 mile from the first platform off the trail (where RA stated he was - the north end).

The Park and it's trial entrance to the Monan High Bridge are on the north side of the creek. More than a half mile away from the site of the abduction/kidnapping (per LE).

(Just writing this comment reminds me the work/presentation required to simply represent the lay of the land to the jury.)

"Possible others" involved in the murders would not necessarily use the park trails to arrive at the south end of the Monan bridge ... and go "down the hill". If they accessed that south end of the bridge by public to private road ... there'd be no trail-walking witnesses. They would not see them.

EF is well over 50 years old today. I don't recall EF's exact age, however that info is in the Franks Memo/exhibits. Regardless of intellectual impairment, EF has an active life, friends, social media, some independence as described in his sister's tip statements. She indicated EF told them he now had a "brother" after participating in an activity that greatly upset him. EF also told a sister he had leave town; he was in trouble related to that matter. See the Franks Memo & exhibits - this info taken from Prosecution's discovery submitted to Defense.

EF's reps to his older sisters as reported in P's discovery (the tips EF's older sisters gave LE) are not insignificant. IMO, it is rather extraordinary that EF's two sisters, both in their 60's, at separate times, volunteered to speak with LE with regard to concerning statements their handicapped adult brother EF made to them related to the Delphi murders. LE's follow-up on these tips regarding EF should be addressed at trial.

I'd certainly agree with the thinking that if EF was at the crime scene, he did not get there unaccompanied. (Perhaps his "brother" accompanied him?)

JMHO

If there were any others already down the hill, that would still not negate RA's culpability.

 

[susiQ]

Is there evidence of as yet unidentified phones moving around that day?

Wasn’t that what was discussed upthread about the geofencing around the CS? If I remember correctly, it didn’t include the South end of the bridge where the abduction took place. Maybe someone else has a better memory or searching skills.

 

[susiQ]

If there were any others already down the hill, that would still not negate RA's culpability.

Maybe, maybe not. As far as I know, there is nothing that puts RA at the CS if we are talking about where the girls were found. Even the South end of the bridge where the abduction allegedly took place was not included in the geofencing data iirc. What needs to be fleshed out is, who did those phones belong to? JMHO

 

[susiQ]

Is there evidence of as yet unidentified phones moving around that day?

Sorry, didn’t fully answer you. I’m thinking some were identified and perhaps investigated. Not sure about ALL of them.
Eta: There was discussion on the previous thread #177. If you go back there and search “geofence” you’ll see all the posts discussing it.

 

[Boxer]

Sorry, didn’t fully answer you. I’m thinking some were identified and perhaps investigated. Not sure about ALL of them.
Eta: There was discussion on the previous thread #177. If you go back there and search “geofence” you’ll see all the posts discussing it.

According to McL they had all cell data from the entire area.

 

[Ravenmoon]

If he had his phone on, he could be tracked. If he left his phone at home like so many believe, who owned the phones moving around the crime scene area?

FSG
The 2 women on the bridge talking photos
Derek German
Tara German
Ron Logan
Richard Allen himself

Any or all of these people?

 

[Megnut]

FSG
The 2 women on the bridge talking photos
Derek German
Tara German
Ron Logan
Richard Allen himself

Any or all of these people?

Libby's phone
Possible second phone between them
Did we ever learn whether the four juveniles had phones?

 

[susiQ]

According to McL they had all cell data from the entire area.

That’s great, but it may not be helpful if the perp(s) left their phone at home. Time will tell what all LE have or don’t have. Looking forward to the trial.

 

[Megnut]

That’s great, but it may not be helpful if the perp(s) left their phone at home. Time will tell what all LE have or don’t have. Looking forward to the trial.

A phone that isn't there can also be evidence. Left at home, turned off, airplane mode. Blacked out period. Tangles up many a criminal.

 

[susiQ]

FSG
The 2 women on the bridge talking photos
Derek German
Tara German
Ron Logan
Richard Allen himself

Any or all of these people?

Agree, but we were considering the area that was included in the geofence data, which iirc encompassed a 100 yd radius around where the girls were found, which would not include the South end of the bridge where they were taken down the hill.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Agree, but we were considering the area that was included in the geofence data, which iirc encompassed a 100 yd radius around where the girls were found, which would not include the South end of the bridge where they were taken down the hill.

Also, the couple arguing under the bridge?

I feel like there are so many possibilities?

 

[katydid23]

I disagree. With everything that's been discussed, I think that assessment is spot on.

I agree with you because there seemed to be people hoping the Grand Jury indictment would be nullified, thus blocking the trial. If that had happened we might never have gotten the chance to see him go before the court with the current evidence on hand.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Agree, but we were considering the area that was included in the geofence data, which iirc encompassed a 100 yd radius around where the girls were found, which would not include the South end of the bridge where they were taken down the hill.

I truly believe the geofence warrant and returned information would have included the drop off location across from Mears Farm, to the south end of bridge where Libby’s phone was used to capture RA and then going east to the crime scene.

Anything less given the type of crime and the isolation of the area makes zero sense.

 

[katydid23]

These are great questions. The kidnap location (per LE) is the south end of the .6 mile long Monon high railroad bridge that stretches into the woods after passing over the creek, ending at the edge of private property and private roads accessible by public roads on the south.

So, the point of abduction is on the south end, more than 1/2 mile from the first platform off the trail (where RA stated he was - the north end).

The Park and it's trial entrance to the Monan High Bridge are on the north side of the creek. More than a half mile away from the site of the abduction/kidnapping (per LE).

(Just writing this comment reminds me the work/presentation required to simply represent the lay of the land to the jury.)

"Possible others" involved in the murders would not necessarily use the park trails to arrive at the south end of the Monan bridge ... and go "down the hill". If they accessed that south end of the bridge by public to private road ... there'd be no trail-walking witnesses. They would not see them.

EF is well over 50 years old today. I don't recall EF's exact age, however that info is in the Franks Memo/exhibits. Regardless of intellectual impairment, EF has an active life, friends, social media, some independence as described in his sister's tip statements. She indicated EF told them he now had a "brother" after participating in an activity that greatly upset him. EF also told a sister he had leave town; he was in trouble related to that matter. See the Franks Memo & exhibits - this info taken from Prosecution's discovery submitted to Defense.

EF's reps to his older sisters as reported in P's discovery (the tips EF's older sisters gave LE) are not insignificant. IMO, it is rather extraordinary that EF's two sisters, both in their 60's, at separate times, volunteered to speak with LE with regard to concerning statements their handicapped adult brother EF made to them related to the Delphi murders. LE's follow-up on these tips regarding EF should be addressed at trial.

I'd certainly agree with the thinking that if EF was at the crime scene, he did not get there unaccompanied. (Perhaps his "brother" accompanied him?)

JMHO

So is your assertion that someone kidnapped the girls off the bridge and then traveled with them to the South End of the bridge to meet up with a waiting group of Odinists? This was a pre-planned ritual between them all, and not one of them was seen coming or going that afternoon?

It makes more sense to me that the crime scene was staged to make it look like a ritual instead of it really being one. JMO

I don't believe it could have stayed a secret if it truly happened the way the FM described it.

 

[Emma Peel]

If there were any others already down the hill, that would still not negate RA's culpability.

Oh! Fun. Word games. My turn:

If there were any others already down the hill, such information would be potentially exculpatory for RA.

 

[katydid23]

With regard to when exactly EF told his sister Mary Jacobs about his previous day, from the FM pg. 91:

“On page 1 of the Odin report, Mary Jacobs told law enforcement that on February 14, 2017,
Elvis was rambling, hyper and borderline incoherent.
He was talking about having a “brother”
(even though Elvis had no male siblings) and was now
part of a “gang.” Elvis told Mary that he
had been on a bridge with two girls that were killed. Elvis told her that someone named Abigail
was a pain in the *advertiser censored* and a troublemaker.”

So much for him just hearing it on the street from locals. It was the day the found the girls! JMO

So EF had been 'on the bridge with the girls' and his gang? When exactly did that happen?

We saw the girl's last moments on the bridge in a video and EF was not there. When was it that he 'and the girls' were on the bridge?


I think it is quite possible that he heard about the missing girls and even heard that stuff about her being a 'troublemaker' 'from some local who knew her family situation, etc.

I think it's possible that he got all worked up about them being missing and then found---he may have spoken to some of the locals who were searching and knew about the crime scene.

If LE had ANY reason to believe there was any truth to his story he would have been in jail a long time ago. His sisters were pushing the story hard so I am sure LE took it seriously and would have loved to close the case back then. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Oh! Fun. Word games. My turn:

If there were any others already down the hill, such information would be potentially exculpatory for RA.

Nope. Not if he forced them off the bridge and down the hill, where they met their fate. He'd be on trial for murder no matter who else was there.