Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[susiQ]

EF's slowness/mental capacity has been tossed around a lot and I have no recollection where that came from.
Could someone please provide the link to anything official as to his mental development?

I'll apologize in advance if I've used any wrong words in the above statements.

I think it came from the FM, but don’t take my word for it. I’ll see if I can find it.

 

[Emma Peel]

Why was nobody else spotted around the bridge moments before the girls crossed?

We can place RA there from witnesses and the fact he also said he went out on the first platform.

If you want to blame a ridiculous cult for the murders then you have to place them at the scene and there simply is nothing to suggest multiple men were hanging that bridge at 1.45pm.

Moo

That's one of my biggest issues with that theory as well. Why didn't anyone else report seeing a group of males in that immediate area. EF was very young and mentally immature---he wouldn't have been able to sneak around very well---why didn't anyone notice him I wonder?

These are great questions. The kidnap location (per LE) is the south end of the .6 mile long Monon high railroad bridge that stretches into the woods after passing over the creek, ending at the edge of private property and private roads accessible by public roads on the south.

So, the point of abduction is on the south end, more than 1/2 mile from the first platform off the trail (where RA stated he was - the north end).

The Park and it's trial entrance to the Monan High Bridge are on the north side of the creek. More than a half mile away from the site of the abduction/kidnapping (per LE).

(Just writing this comment reminds me the work/presentation required to simply represent the lay of the land to the jury.)

"Possible others" involved in the murders would not necessarily use the park trails to arrive at the south end of the Monan bridge ... and go "down the hill". If they accessed that south end of the bridge by public to private road ... there'd be no trail-walking witnesses. They would not see them.

EF is well over 50 years old today. I don't recall EF's exact age, however that info is in the Franks Memo/exhibits. Regardless of intellectual impairment, EF has an active life, friends, social media, some independence as described in his sister's tip statements. She indicated EF told them he now had a "brother" after participating in an activity that greatly upset him. EF also told a sister he had leave town; he was in trouble related to that matter. See the Franks Memo & exhibits - this info taken from Prosecution's discovery submitted to Defense.

EF's reps to his older sisters as reported in P's discovery (the tips EF's older sisters gave LE) are not insignificant. IMO, it is rather extraordinary that EF's two sisters, both in their 60's, at separate times, volunteered to speak with LE with regard to concerning statements their handicapped adult brother EF made to them related to the Delphi murders. LE's follow-up on these tips regarding EF should be addressed at trial.

I'd certainly agree with the thinking that if EF was at the crime scene, he did not get there unaccompanied. (Perhaps his "brother" accompanied him?)

JMHO

 

[susiQ]

Yes it is. Then he admitted in his letter his thought process at that moment was to tell the judge a falsehood.

Oh, I wasn’t aware of the letter. Do you have a link for that?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

EF's slowness/mental capacity has been tossed around a lot and I have no recollection where that came from.
Could someone please provide the link to anything official as to his mental development?

I'll apologize in advance if I've used any wrong words in the above statements.

Franks motion I believe

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm not even convinced it did look like one. I sure haven't seen the crime scene photos. It certainly appears that some people in LE believed it did. Say what you will about the odin junk, the defense didn't originally come up with it.

All JMHO

Many of us have notes about BH and gang from years ago. Defense didn’t come up with the idea, they borrowed it from social media groups. Lo and behold, once defense received evidence, they saw that LE had investigated the angle too. It wasn’t overlooked. The FBI was aware too. It was a dead-end, or at a minimum, not enough to charge others.

We discussed staging on these threads years ago. I found an example in this post on a thread from 2019 by one of my favorite posters @MassGuy :

That just doesn’t happen.

That whole Satanism hysteria of the 80s and 90s, derailed countless investigations, and led to several false convictions.

I blame Maury and Geraldo for feeding that frenzy.

It caused a lot of harm, and was mostly baseless.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

 

[steeltowngirl]

I simply cannot understand how sticks at the crime scene and the investigation into Odin players - which was disclosed in discovery given to defense - is exculpatory for RA.

IF the killer(s) of Libby and Abby staged a scene, it could have no connection to Odinism. Someone could have watched True Detective Season 1, for all we know.

jmo

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I have said before on here that it happened, but have since looked, and also not found confirmation from LE that the A_Shots profile was in contact with Libby on the day of the murders.

But, BP stated that she “knows for a fact” that the A_Shots profile communicated with Libby. Starting around 2:20:

New lead found in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams | Fox News Video

Senior correspondent Laura Ingle on the recent finding that a fake Instagram account could have led to the murders of two Indiana teens in 2017.

video.foxnews.com

KAK may have confirmed to BM that ISP alleged it to him:
“HLN reporter Barbara MacDonald reported she spoke with Kline in December after the Indiana State Police indicated Kline's social media profile "anthony_shots" was of interest in the Feb. 13, 2017, killings of Libby and Abby.”

HLN reports: ISP told man 'anthony_shots' profile was last communication with Libby

HLN reporter spoke with Kegan Kline, creator of anthony_shots profile who said ISP told him he was a person of interest in the killings of Libby and Abby.

www.jconline.com

The "new lead" story mistakenly says that KAK said he talked to her the day of the murder. Not true, he said that he was accused of that by LE. I can see how KAK would think that, but in the interrogation, they do not state that as a fact. BP says she knows for a fact that A Shots account had contact with Libby, she did not say it was on the day of the murders.

 

[Vern]

Brad Holder and Pat Wesfall of Delphi were noted as connected to the murders in Delphi in 2017. Holders wife testified he met with Abby Williams multiple times, and there were pictures on his phone of the girls with sticks arranged in Norsk formations. In 2017, Delphi police used a DVR set to record interviews.
Former Police Chief Mullins testified he noticed the DVR was set to continuously record months after recording Holders interview. The interview was reportedly lost. He also says the FBI never recorded Westfall’s interview.
Source

"Norsk formations"

Call me insane, but I bet dollars to the donuts that's not how she would have described a bunch of branchs tossed on top of two mudered girls back in 2017. Seems there's a hinckiness to those words being used now which certainly seems to suit the D's purpose --- obscure and confuse --- attempt to taint.

 

[Vern]

I simply cannot understand how sticks at the crime scene and the investigation into Odin players - which was disclosed in discovery given to defense - is exculpatory for RA.

IF the killer(s) of Libby and Abby staged a scene, it could have no connection to Odinism. Someone could have watched True Detective Season 1, for all we know.

jmo

It's not exculaptory.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The "new lead" story mistakenly says that KAK said he talked to her the day of the murder. Not true, he said that he was accused of that by LE. I can see how KAK would think that, but in the interrogation, they do not state that as a fact. BP says she knows for a fact that A Shots account had contact with Libby, she did not say it was on the day of the murders.

I hope we learn more about it, but I don’t think we will, unless there is a connection made with RA at trial. I would think prosecution will provide some motive, but who knows.

I guess the origin of the rumor is in the documents that MS obtained.

The interaction with Kline, believed by law enforcement to be associated with a fake social media profile "anthony_shots," came while Liberty – called "Libby" – was at a sleepover the night before the teenagers disappeared, according to Miami County court documents obtained by FOX59.

Kegan Kline's police, HLN interviews show Delphi murder investigation focus on fake profile

According to a police transcript, a fake social media profile interacted with murdered Delphi teen the night before she and a friend disappeared.

www.jconline.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Why did it take 5 years to arrest him? All I am finding against him is gun ballistics, I thought there was more.

 

[Boxer]

Not at all. MW was the man charged and rightly deserved to be. I have seen no proof whatsoever that AB supported what MW did. No doubt AB learned a valuable lesson through this and that should be the end of it. IMHO

They provided access.

 

[Boxer]

I simply cannot understand how sticks at the crime scene and the investigation into Odin players - which was disclosed in discovery given to defense - is exculpatory for RA.

IF the killer(s) of Libby and Abby staged a scene, it could have no connection to Odinism. Someone could have watched True Detective Season 1, for all we know.

jmo

Not exculpatory.
Odinist stuff extraneous.

 

[sunshineray]

Not at all. MW was the man charged and rightly deserved to be. I have seen no proof whatsoever that AB supported what MW did. No doubt AB learned a valuable lesson through this and that should be the end of it. IMHO

Wonder what was in those emails back and forth between MW and AB? It was said by the prosecution and AB himself that AB strategized with MW, which included discussing protected information.

 

[sunshineray]

Oh, think there’s more than enough negligence to go around! 5 years of it. JMO

Why is that?

 

[snooptroop88]

I simply cannot understand how sticks at the crime scene and the investigation into Odin players - which was disclosed in discovery given to defense - is exculpatory for RA.

Totally agreed. If words could file lawsuits, "exculpatory" should itself be suing the D in that by the time this trial is over, no one will remember what the actual meaning of the word was. It has been redefined by the D. Anything lost, missing, bungled, omitted, unclear, possibly even unexplored to their satisfaction-- it's "exculpatory." It's not even potentially exculpatory. It's just "exculpatory." The D has done everything in its power to prevent this trial from happening. Now it's only weeks away, and I am really looking forward to seeing how it unfolds.

 

[Boxer]

Not the

Not at all. MW was the man charged and rightly deserved to be. I have seen no proof whatsoever that AB supported what MW did. No doubt AB learned a valuable lesson through this and that should be the end of it. IMHO

There is no end to this, the defense attorneys leaked explicit photos of murdered girls.

Jeffrey Turco Is less tha a full professor, is there any other professor involved here?

 

[susiQ]

Not the

There is no end to this, the defense attorneys leaked explicit photos of murdered girls.

Jeffrey Turco Is less tha a full professor, is there any other professor involved here?

I don’t know but it was LE that engaged him to begin with and then JH lied about what he said and pretended he didn’t know where to find him again. That’s all I need to know.

 

[snooptroop88]

Why did it take 5 years to arrest him? All I am finding against him is gun ballistics, I thought there was more.

All purely speculation: I fear RA initially told those he spoke with in LE that he had his phone/checking stock ticker. This led them to let their guards down a bit, he had the phone, it could be tracked. If warranted, he would become a suspect via further investigation with the geofence. But then (again, pure speculation), he didn't have the phone after all. He never showed up on the geofence. He would then appear to have "slipped through the cracks" and was never recognized as a suspect. If all that happened (and what a big "if"), that wasn't (MOO) a "slip through the cracks." It would become even more interesting if RA didn't act alone and his fellow perps did have phones. Not saying I think RA is guilty. I've got no idea. But I'll definitely be following the trial.

 

[Emma Peel]

The defense's actions have been atrocious and continue to be. MOO, they don't want a trial at all and the best they can come up with are shenanigans. The last and final straw was their witness list for their contempt hearing. It's all just a game to them, to poison the jury pool. But I doubt very strongly the trial will start in May. I'll be very shocked if it does. AJMO

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not understanding your comment.

The State opted to Charge the Defense (the Public Defenders, Balwin and Rozzi, personally ... themselves) with Criminal Contempt. Baldwin and Rozzi (and not RA) were put in the position of defending themselves. The accusations included those related to Leaks to youtubers. This was a quick action, NO JURY.

How was Baldwin and Rozzi's efforts to defend themselves from this Criminal Contempt Motion brought by the State "all just a game to them to poison the (State vs RA) jury pool"?

Perhaps you're mixing the 2 different hearings conducted the same day?

You reference Baldwin's and Rozzi's witness exhibit as "the last straw". I don't understand this characterization either. As defendants against this Criminal Contempt action, they are entitled to present witness/exhibits for a hearing and its customary to provide such lists in advance of a hearing. As to their witness list, esteemed members of the Indiana Defense Bar were on that list and they gave testimony. The Contempt Motion attempted to hold Baldwin and Rozzi responsible for Leaks to youtubers. So, youtubers were also on the witness/exhibit list. Screen shots on the exhibit list. The State likewise had a list including a youtuber witness and screen shot evidence. Gull ended up determining - for both sides - that youtubers would not be heard, and that SM screenshot exhibits would not be allowed. (This was a quick action; and Gull opted to make these decisions on the fly as is her prerogative.)

For a different hearing on a different motion, the Defense for RA brought a Motion to Dismiss the Case and hold the State's Prosecutor in Contempt. Reason: the State's multiple failures to share critical and possibly exculpatory discovery. (Objecting to serious State errors (whether intentional or incompetent) also falls under the category of "the job of the Defense".) One possible error here could be that State brought charges against RA without benefit of knowing or considering exculpatory evidence themselves before charging.

Further, should the public and the public's interest in seeing justice for these victims - in fact - end up denied this trial because the Court finds the Defense is correct and there is fault and cause by State that requires charges be Dismissed ... the public should - logically - be pissed off at the State.

Not the Defense.

If I'm the family of these victims, I'd be hopeful that the State makes their case that the discovery that was lost was not exculpatory, and failures to forward discovery and/or to disclose the lost evidence was not the fault of the Prosecutor.