Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[susiQ]

How does any of this negate potential evidence they do have on Richard Allen? How does this exonerate him?

RA is the defendant scheduled for trial. Prosecution will provide evidence of his involvement in the murders. They aren’t there to clear other suspects that were investigated - perhaps never cleared, but also not charged.

We haven’t seen the “potential evidence” the prosecution may have, I agree. What I have heard through those at the hearing this past Monday was TC’s testimony about what was not done that should have been. What I believe is that this case has been hijacked by those who needed a scapegoat and RA fit the bill. He had the misfortune of being on the trails and bridge that day and was honest enough to admit it, thinking that he could in someway help. Of course, I understand that many believe he is guilty without a trial having taken place. He was trying to get ahead of it by “pretending” to help. So be it. I’m trying to process all the things we do know at this point. Again, many believe the FM is a work of fiction. I do not, so obviously my opinion will be at odds. Did the D perhaps get a few things wrong in the FM? Likely. But if that document doesn’t give people concern, I honestly don’t know what to make of that.

All MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

We haven’t seen the “potential evidence” the prosecution may have, I agree. What I have heard through those at the hearing this past Monday was TC’s testimony about what was not done that should have been. What I believe is that this case has been hijacked by those who needed a scapegoat and RA fit the bill. He had the misfortune of being on the trails and bridge that day and was honest enough to admit it, thinking that he could in someway help. Of course, I understand that many believe he is guilty without a trial having taken place. He was trying to get ahead of it by “pretending” to help. So be it. I’m trying to process all the things we do know at this point. Again, many believe the FM is a work of fiction. I do not, so obviously my opinion will be at odds. Did the D perhaps get a few things wrong in the FM? Likely. But if that document doesn’t give people concern, I honestly don’t know what to make of that.

All MOO

BBM
And Can you please elaborate what TC testified that what was not done that should have been? I understand BM seriously misreported Click’s testimony and had to retract his statements.
If Click and his team had compelling evidence that their POI’s were connected then why couldn’t they get an arrest during their 3 years of working this case?

 

[Niner]

The jury will be selected from another county, not Carroll Country the questionaries for potential jury selection has already been mailed out according to the Monday hearing. They will be transported to and from. I don't know if they will sequestered or not, I don't know if that has been decided.

MOO

per my notes:
Jurors will be chosen from Allen County & transported to Carroll County for trial. Jury will be sequestered.

 

[girlhasnoname]

per my notes:
Jurors will be chosen from Allen County & transported to Carroll County for trial. Jury will be sequestered.

Thanks Niner, what would we do without you keeping all of us informed?

 

[steeltowngirl]

We haven’t seen the “potential evidence” the prosecution may have, I agree. What I have heard through those at the hearing this past Monday was TC’s testimony about what was not done that should have been. What I believe is that this case has been hijacked by those who needed a scapegoat and RA fit the bill. He had the misfortune of being on the trails and bridge that day and was honest enough to admit it, thinking that he could in someway help. Of course, I understand that many believe he is guilty without a trial having taken place. He was trying to get ahead of it by “pretending” to help. So be it. I’m trying to process all the things we do know at this point. Again, many believe the FM is a work of fiction. I do not, so obviously my opinion will be at odds. Did the D perhaps get a few things wrong in the FM? Likely. But if that document doesn’t give people concern, I honestly don’t know what to make of that.

All MOO

Make no mistake - everything about this case gives me concern. That said, I hold on to faith in LE and the judicial system. Perhaps that’s naive or Pollyanna-ish, but that’s the basis for my belief that evidence exists to tie RA to the murders of Libby and Abby. It is now up to prosecution to produce that evidence and prove it to a jury BARD.

The rest is noise, IMO. There were many suspects and POIs that would have made for easy targets if LE simply wanted to pin this on a scapegoat. The evidence wasn’t there to move forward, either because they were not involved, or they are yet to be charged, pending further investigation.

I agree this case has been hijacked - by a hapless defense team that floated their theories and leaked evidence provided to them by the prosecution on social media and to YouTubers. All in the name of discrediting the investigation done by ISP, FBI, etc.

Todd Click said it himself: the defense is “twisting facts.”

Either RA=BG, or he’s not. It is up to prosecution to prove that he is. It’s up to defense to counter that evidence. Sticks left at the crime scene do not exonerate RA. PW leading a Nordic costume party do not exonerate RA.

In 51 days we will all get to know what they know.
I’m here for it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM
And Can you please elaborate what TC testified that what was not done that should have been? I understand BM seriously misreported Click’s testimony and had to retract his statements.
If Click and his team had compelling evidence that their POI’s were connected then why couldn’t they get an arrest during their 3 years of working this case?

Yes, BM walked back that statement he made, quietly, in the Defenses 'footnote' kind of way. Ooopsie, sorry I misspoke.

It was rumored to have been a video showing a kidnapping of 2 girls by one of the RA is Innocent deemed POI's. Turned out it was video of a man involved in a drug deal, nothing involving a girl let alone 2 girls.

It was talked about on the latest TMS recap from Court on Monday. I normally don't listen, but wanted to get a feel for what someone who was actually in the Courtroom had to say. Oh, and the lady from Texas who was purported to have 240+ pages of hard evidence turned out to have 2-3 pages of FB postings. She was dismissed within moments.

That's the problem I have with all of this garbage being spewed by these clowns, it has no factual basis and is taking time and attention away from the real case at hand...the guilt/innocence of Defendant Richard Allen in the murders of Abbigal Williams and Liberty German as charged by the State of Indiana.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

BBM
And Can you please elaborate what TC testified that what was not done that should have been? I understand BM seriously misreported Click’s testimony and had to retract his statements.
If Click and his team had compelling evidence that their POI’s were connected then why couldn’t they get an arrest during their 3 years of working this case?

Perhaps because they were not the lead investigators? There was a hierachy? JMT

Yes, BM made an error, which he corrected, but that doesn’t change what I’m talking about. It was about a phone that was reported to TC by JM’s ex TH which had information on it of JM kidnapping someone (a male) because he got ripped off for $4,000. Paid for meth, but didn’t get it, so he kidnapped a friend of the guy until he got the meth. TC reported this to JH who was supposed to pick up the phone for analysis. He never went to pick it up. Go figure. So, TC retrieved it from JM’s ex.

There’s a probable cause affidavit in support of a search warrant on Cara Wieneke’s twitter if you want to look. It’s dated 2019 and signed by TC.

 

[DeDee]

<modsnip> Back when they arrested RA, I recall asking on here if the trial could be moved out of state, due to the notoriety and likely connections in a small town. I think the responses were no way, as he is entitled to a jury of his peers, or something like that. I kind of wish the bridge and trail had been on federal land, and this would be tried in federal court, with federal prosecutors.

Scratch that.
Back to my real wish: that Libby and Abby would have drop-kicked BG off of the bridge.

I get where you're heart is coming from just as I wish BG had fallen through a rickety rotten hole, as the wood gave way, in the bridge straight into the cold Deer Creek below some 60'. Professional divers wouldn't attempt that feat, would one? I'd do anything to change the setting for them that fateful February day.

Regardless of all that's come before the current flow of the case, we're 50 days out from trial, finally, gratefully. I'm not sure B&R have been paid since reinstatement. Weren't they denied funds for trial experts? Would those gentlemen come off the hip and front the cost of experts themselves? Did I read there was a prosecutorial budget of $2.1M written to look like: $2,100,000.00? That's $1M from the Governor and the other from Carroll County, I suppose.

Speaking of the flow, the narrative for the Crime Scene Flow has always bothered me. I am unable to get the three of them into the cold water and to cross the creek together, then shimmy up that 6' steep embankment. Were they tethered together, Abby and Libby? I don't know how one would walk up that steep embankment out of the water to where they were found. And, have a victim's body that was clean. AJMOO

 

[Boxer]

We haven’t seen the “potential evidence” the prosecution may have, I agree. What I have heard through those at the hearing this past Monday was TC’s testimony about what was not done that should have been. What I believe is that this case has been hijacked by those who needed a scapegoat and RA fit the bill. He had the misfortune of being on the trails and bridge that day and was honest enough to admit it, thinking that he could in someway help. Of course, I understand that many believe he is guilty without a trial having taken place. He was trying to get ahead of it by “pretending” to help. So be it. I’m trying to process all the things we do know at this point. Again, many believe the FM is a work of fiction. I do not, so obviously my opinion will be at odds. Did the D perhaps get a few things wrong in the FM? Likely. But if that document doesn’t give people concern, I honestly don’t know what to make of that.

All MOO

There are three defenses:

-I didnt do it
-I did it but was justified
-I was crazy/impaired at the time

The first one is done by:
1) Attacking evidence/witnesses to try and get it suppressed
2) Providing alternative narratives - SODDI

This is all I see happening, defense is lawyering 101, AT doing the samecin Moscow ID.
--

 

[susiQ]

There are three defenses:

-I didnt do it
-I did it but was justified
-I was crazy/impaired at the time

The first one is done by:
1) Attacking evidence/witnesses to try and get it suppressed
2) Providing alternative narratives - SODDI

This is all I see happening, defense is lawyering 101, AT doing the samecin Moscow ID.
--

I don’t see it that way, but you are entitled to your opinion
How about a 4th defense - I didn’t do it!?

 

[DeDee]

If small town investigators see a brutal crime scene and they show emotion/shock at the press conference it's because they're from a small town? I've seen big city investigators and prosecutors just as upset and more so at press conferences, especially when the crime involved children.

Show me where I said LE's reaction to their murder scene was due to Delphi being a small town.

 

[DeDee]

Honestly, I can't wait either. The State has never been required to disclose to the public why ANY POI was cleared. I believe Click, Ferency and Murphy were upset over being let go from the case, they have done everything in their power to reinsert themselves. I'm sure they (Click especially) wanted to be part of the winning team who arrested RA and solved the case, not the one at home retired and not receiving any attention or the so called 'glory and admiration'. Maybe they're working on a book about the case to pass the time away? IDK

SD has a solid reputation as an experienced prosecutor, so those that feel NMcL is incompetent should feel relieved.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO

It is more likely, imoo, that TC felt the wrong person had been arrested for the double murders. Then, one of the Odin investigators, the FBI Agent Ferency, is gunned down in cold blood. I hope Click watches his back. This case has always been and remains a dangerous case.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

This case has always been and remains a dangerous case.

MOO

RSABBM
Possibly more dangerous by the day? I seriously hope not, but I worry nonetheless. JMO

 

[Boxer]

I don’t see it that way, but you are entitled to your opinion
How about a 4th defense - I didn’t do it!?

That is the first defense.
The well worn path to that defense is attacking the evidence and providing another narrative: SODDI
"Some other guy(s) did it."

In RAs case he was charged with felony murder.
It only has to be proven that he forced the girls off the the bridge, he then is responsible for all the crimes that befell them afterwards.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks,

Some posts have been removed.

When your "hypothetical" is so obvious who you are talking about in a small town, it's not really a hypothetical. You may as well have flat-out handed out the name on a platter.

 

[layer]

Either RA=BG, or he’s not. It is up to prosecution to prove that he is. It’s up to defense to counter that evidence. Sticks left at the crime scene do not exonerate RA. PW leading a Nordic costume party do not exonerate RA.

In 51 days we will all get to know what they know.
I’m here for it.

There are those who don't trust LE or the judicial system - at least not in this case. I have a question...

If we had secretly been given nothing more than the identities of the people known by LE to be on the Monon High Bridge the afternoon of Feb 13th, how long do you think it would have taken us to have RA sitting down explaining himself? Five years?

There is something rotten in Delphi. There may be a logical explanation for how absurdly botched this investigation was that doesn't involve intent, but whether conspiracy or stupefying incompetence is to blame...

I'm sorry, I don't trust them.

 

[DeDee]

There are three defenses:

-I didnt do it
-I did it but was justified
-I was crazy/impaired at the time

The first one is done by:
1) Attacking evidence/witnesses to try and get it suppressed
2) Providing alternative narratives - SODDI

This is all I see happening, defense is lawyering 101, AT doing the samecin Moscow ID.
--

If the Defense is able to get onto the court record during trial that there were Odinists who were investigated, as well as, coupled with his confession* made while the guard at Westville wearing Odin patches then getting an Odin tattoo on his face was watching over him. it may create reasonable doubt for a Juror(s). The reason it's important is because of the potential evidence of Runes arranged at the CS that point toward Odinism.

There should be no reasonable doubt RA is responsible for these crimes. Does the Odin angel jeopardize a conviction? This is my concern.

AT's defense in Idaho4 is handling a Death Penalty case and knew it from the beginning. The P is known for withholding evidence there, too. We also have a gag order in that case.

* It's my impression that RA confessed in one session on one day during one phone call. He told his mother and his wife several times, maybe 5, maybe 7 times in the same phone call.

AMOHO

 

[Salah11]

I don’t see it that way, but you are entitled to your opinion
How about a 4th defense - I didn’t do it!?

He did it and has admitted it multiple times.

 

[Boxer]

If the Defense is able to get onto the court record during trial that there were Odinists who were investigated, as well as, coupled with his confession* made while the guard at Westville wearing Odin patches then getting an Odin tattoo on his face was watching over him. it may create reasonable doubt for a Juror(s). The reason it's important is because of the potential evidence of Runes arranged at the CS that point toward Odinism.

There should be no reasonable doubt RA is responsible for these crimes. Does the Odin angel jeopardize a conviction? This is my concern.

AT's defense in Idaho4 is handling a Death Penalty case and knew it from the beginning. The P is known for withholding evidence there, too. We also have a gag order in that case.

* It's my impression that RA confessed in one session on one day during one phone call. He told his mother and his wife several times, maybe 5, maybe 7 times in the same phone call.

AMOHO

The crime on the bridge makes him culpable for all that follows.

 

[layer]

The crime on the bridge makes him culpable for all that follows.

Help me out here, Boxer.
Wasn't there something odd about Murder charges specifically in Indiana that basically felony murder is implied by the statute without having to be specified? I guess I could search out the old posts.