Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

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I think we might see some of RA's past come calling during trial. The State has subpoenaed his work history records for Walmart and CVS. I wonder if there might be any indications that he had any documented behavior that might be of interest? IDK

The media and general public isn't privy to a Defendant's personal Human Resource records. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

JMO
 
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Except the 4th one was apparently not interviewed. For whatever reason.
Do we know for sure that the 4th girl was not interviewed? Maybe she saw nothing, which is entirely possible. Maybe she was younger than the others and didn't recall anything? IDK if that has ever been stated in MSM, not the FM.

JMO
 
FWIW I think it's an exercise in extraction to pull two male figures from witnesses' descriptions, which everyone knows can vary greatly. We don't know what was recalled organically, what questions were asked.

For example, all MOO

Do you remember what he was wearing?

No.

We're his clothes dark or light?

Dark?

Dark like blue or black?

Black.

A child might not have a solid mental picture to draw from but might have an ingrained proclivity to please. Wants to answer, wants to help, wants to give the answer the questioner is looking for.

It's most convincing to me that they all saw a man at the same time, one who was wearing dark clothes, whose behavior was such that they remembered him.

JMO
All this Megs! These girls who witnessed RA were still very young at the time of the murders 10-15 probably and most likely traumatized once they learned of what happened.

I feel sorry for them and hope they have been able to get all the support they've needed. This trial will not be easy on them either.

MOO
 
Just my opinion:

I am looking forward to the trial.
It's obvious that LE made mistakes.
At the end of the day, they are human.
I have criticized the secrecy and still feel that some things ( in the early days) should have been released.
I think many would be more supportive of LE if they had been more open.
But, here we are just weeks away from the trial .
I believe that they have the right person in custody. Things line up and fit properly .
The Defense will have the opportunity to defend their client and poke holes in the States case.
It isn't so much being Pro State as it is Pro Abby and Libby.

JMO
RA has to be BG. Nobody saw two people who look like the photo. Nobody said “Just a few minutes later, another lone guy came down the trail. He was about the same height as the first one who passed me, same build, only this guy’s jacket was black rather than blue and he was carrying a baby goat.”

There were people, RA included, who should have seen a second lone male had there been one. Nobody did. RA was there. That was him, the only lone male who looked like the picture. He’s on the trail and then he’s not seen anymore unless he’s muddy-maybe-bloody guy. Where did he go? Nothing in his original story accounts for this disappearing act. His revised story, some version of “I killed them” does fit the facts very well. What exactly did he say?

The ejected cartridge would be a solid additional evidence item for me even if it were only an 80 percent positive match. That there is a .40 caliber round there between those two girls at all is utterly damning. Nobody in 2017 knew to plant evidence that would incriminate a guy to be arrested in 2022.

Given RA is BG, he kidnapped those girls from the trail down the hill to their deaths. The only person he has named that we know of in the girls’ deaths is himself. His attorneys have named others. I find it revealing that they do not cite RA as a source for these accusations. Surely he would know.

I hope he talks. There’s a lot of “why” and “how” missing. I could buy that there were others down there in the woods. I can believe he did it alone, somehow. I hope we get real answers and not arm-waving obfuscation.

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Perhaps the youngest one, perhaps traumatized, perhaps her guardians exercised their right to protect her from further trauma.

JMO
Sorry, I was reading from the last page forward before I saw your post. I very much agree, and find that completely plausible rather than a lack of LE's performance or conspiratorial. :cool:

MOO
 
I think we might see some of RA's past come calling during trial. The State has subpoenaed his work history records for Walmart and CVS. I wonder if there might be any indications that he had any documented behavior that might be of interest? IDK

The media and general public isn't privy to a Defendant's personal Human Resource records. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

JMO
Yep. I wonder what fellow employees will have to say.
Just my opinion but,

I am feeling pretty confident that we will hear some interesting things about RA on the job.

JMO
 
So BG by some accounts was "printing" with that weapon, you can see the outline of the weapon pretty well through his coat. I don't think that "printing" by itself-- with no other factors-- is that noticeable out on a trail (with a dark colored coat), but I might be wrong, it's jmo. Meaning I wouldn't notice it by itself as anything but (maybe) a bulge. The bulge I probably would notice. It would be interesting to know if the girls at Freedom Bridge said anything at all about this bulge (which we assume is a gun) on the man they saw. I think they gave varying descriptions of him. This is the man that would be RA per his timeline, he says he saw them, they say they saw him. Also, wondering what they said about the hat and if any gave specifics. My guess is yes.
I think RA might have had the gun tucked into the back of his waistband on his trek over to the MHB (to disguise it) and probably only pulled it out and put it in his jacket pocket for quick access when he was on the bridge.

JMO
 
Where was the light colored '65 Comet? BB's description of BG is about as accurate to RA as the Comet is to his Focus. Why didn't the PCA provide a description of the car BB saw parked oddly in the CPS lot? Was the car she described the Comet, or a different car? Why was the Comet omitted from the PCA? BB's the only witness who puts BG on the bridge in the moments before the girls got there, so it's important. JMO.
Yes, all of this! BB even went to LE way after the fact and wondered why HER description of who she saw (that the sketch depicted with "10 out of 10" accuracy) hadn't been released. And let's not forget Theresa Leibert's sketch that looks exactly like Elvis Fields.
 
The witness never said bloody. That was a fabrication.


They said it looked like he had been in a fight.
Not sure, but for me, that would be someone that is roughed up and bloody.( perhaps the interviewing LE followed up by asking "do you mean bloody when you say that he looked like he was in a fight?")

JMO
 
His Ford Focus passed the Harvest store camera at 1:27.
RA stated he was on the trail 1:30-3:30
There is no confirmation of either of these things.

A car that resembled his was seen on camera.

He said he was at the trails "between" those hours. Not "during" those hours. If someone asked me if I was outside with my dog this morning between the hours of 6AM and 10AM, I'd say yes. But I was not out there until 8AM and came back in at 8:10AM. In RA's recorded interview, he said he left at 1:30.
 
They have a car resembling a black Ford Focus on CCTV. I see cars that look like that every single time I drive around.
I remember the mad scramble for the elusive Hyundai Elantra in Moscow. That's the first time I realized how similar looking many of these modern vehicles are. People were reporting everything from Chevys to Toyotas. We'll have to see what they have on video.
 
They have a car resembling a black Ford Focus on CCTV. I see cars that look like that every single time I drive around.


Sure. But THAT car was seen parked at the time of the murders.
And RA verified that he wore the same clothing that the killer did, places himself on the bridge and admits to seeing girls leaving the area while he entered the trails and has a gun that matches a bullet.


This is a whole lot of coincidence for this man on that day within a specific window of time, would you agree?
 
I did read it but I don't see that it rebuts the substance from Turco in the prosecution's response. The defence claim that Holeman miscategorised the report in his summary - which to me is a question of opinion. But in the actual trial, it will matter what the witness himself will testify, and what his report said. And apparently he does not believe it is self evident these were runes, and prefers Holeman's summary. So it doesn't seem like calling this witness is a great idea.

One suspects that by writing their own summary, the intent was in fact to misrepresent the report.
Such a good point @mrjitty. All of these witnesses, Turco, Holeman, the girls that saw BG… all of them can, and most likely will, be called to testify at trial, under oath, for the jury.

I am looking forward to the trial. Kind of. I recall KG in an interview saying true crime may seem like entertainment, but we must remember that Libby and Abby were real people. Then I find myself sullenly looking at the floor. :(
 
I wonder if they have the right person in custody. Things don't line up and fit properly .
The Prosecution will have the opportunity to try to dispel my doubt.
It isn't so much being Pro Defense as it is Pro Abby and Libby.
They deserve the truth, wherever it lies.
Exactly.

And I have an issue with anyone, including family, criticizing anyone else for using the #justiceforabbyandlibby hashtag. The right person (people, in my opinion) need to be held accountable for this in order for justice to be achieved.

Also, the family didn't create that hashtag/they don't own it, but that's really beside the point. The point is that I'm sure the family wants the RIGHT people convicted.....correct?
 
Here's the explanation for why the exam was just filed, It appears the judge got the ball rolling and then denied any further funding.

This is from the Motion for Parity:
(snip)
Since being reinstated in this case, the State of Indiana
has served up additional discovery to the Defense in the form of multiple interviews
conducted by law enforcement with Westville prisoners and correctional officers. In
these interviews, law enforcement investigators have inquired about the
interviewees’ opinions regarding Defendant Allen’s state of mental health,
practically seeking clinical diagnostic opinions from these lay witnesses. Defense
counsel retained a clinical psychologist to evaluate Allen and review health records
and video relevant to Allen’s confinement conditions. This Court previously
authorized funds for the defense to retain the expert. However, those funds are now
depleted, and additional services are still needed.

This Court authorized payment for the two-hour visit defense counsel had
scheduled with the expert but denied the request for additional funding, finding
that the “unsupported request is denied as an unreasonable expenditure of county
funds.”


Defense counsel also requested funding to hire a confession expert to educate
counsel and possibly the jury on the impacts solitary confinement has on
individuals accused of crimes, particularly in relation to the voluntariness of a

confession made in those conditions. Through the process of conducting discovery,
Defense counsel has learned that Defendant Allen’s pre-trial detention in the
segregation unit at Westville, may be the first time an innocent man has been
confined in such a setting in the history of the institution and possibly this State.
Moreover, Allen’s detention is the direct result of the Carroll County Sheriff’s
request for a safekeeping order. He, the requesting Sheriff, created this
circumstance. It is indisputable that the issue of the impact of Allen’s unique and
unprecedented pre-trial detention circumstances on his overall mental health is
germane to his defense. Despite this, the Court declined defense counsel’s request
for additional funding as being “unsupported.”


17. Defense counsel made other requests for funding as well. Counsel
requested funding for the services of an independent forensic pathologist to review
and consult with the defense on issues related to the crime scene, the pathology of
the victims, and the cause, manner, and timing of death. This Court declined the
request as being “unsupported.”

Here's some info on Dr. Westcott. I'm assuming this is the right one.
Personal Bio
Dr. Polly Westcott has been practicing in Indiana since 2004. She is a clinical psychologist with post-doctoral training in neuropsychology and forensics. She works with children, adults, and families from a cognitive behavioral therapeutic perspective, including using biofeedback to treat mood disorders, adjusting to life transitions, posttraumatic stress, and various medical conditions. Employing her neuropsychology background, she conducts neuropsychological assessments and works to help caregivers, families, and patients with brain-based disorders cope and strategize to improve their functioning. She is a nationally known legal consultant for criminal and civil cases involving brain-based and psychological disorders.
Thanks @FrostedGlass for (again) sharing relevant details that save everyone unnecessary speculation and time chasing rabbits. :)
 
Sure. But THAT car was seen parked at the time of the murders.
And RA verified that he wore the same clothing that the killer did, places himself on the bridge and admits to seeing girls leaving the area while he entered the trails and has a gun that matches a bullet.


This is a whole lot of coincidence for this man on that day within a specific window of time, would you agree?

BBM. How do you figure?
 
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