Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[layer]

It’s proof on reasonable cause to search his home and property. And guess what, IMO it was fruitful so there’s that.

Can I ask what you base that guess on? And what do you think was found that was fruitful?

 

[Willow Knight]

A purple PT Cruiser like TK's close relative owned?

If there is anyway you can direct me to learn more about this PT cruiser I would appreciate it. TIA

 

[Willow Knight]

It's been discussed a few times, the person guessing at the make of car, is guessing about the same parked car that was backed in and parked, that others also guessed about, also incorrect. Why keep giving any importance to that wrong guess, instead of the other wrong guesses? LE already said they believe they saw the Ford Focus owned by RA on video.
There is no reason to doubt that RA drove and backed in and parked as described in the affidavit. Also never shown that TK or his "close" relative ever drove a purple car in Delphi or anywhere else, except by rumor started after it was seen in the affidavit, and someone took a picture of a car which was never verified belonging to a relative. Did you see the license plate or registration?

Ok thank you. I know I've been very behind lately due to holiday weekend and trying to catch up, was thinking I may have missed something.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I am counting what's in the Franks memo because it is backed up by 194 footnotes/citations.

Believing it's all lies is an easy way to just stay in the "RA is definitely guilty and is the only guy" lane and I'm not good with that.

IMO.

IMO the 194 footnotes were by design. Unfortunately I don’t believe they add any truthfulness to the FM. The author of the FM quoted evidence and testimony selectively.
A strong FM would have quoted entire testimony if it supported their assertion.
Cherry picking is deceitful. It shows bad faith when it’s done repeatedly. IMO as this defense has done all the way through the process.
JMO.

 

[TTF14]

IMO the 194 footnotes were by design. Unfortunately I don’t believe they add any truthfulness to the FM. The author of the FM quoted evidence and testimony selectively.
A strong FM would have quoted entire testimony if it supported their assertion.
Cherry picking is deceitful. It shows bad faith when it’s done repeatedly. IMO as this defense has done all the way through the process.
JMO.

Well, if the Judge isn't going to read (IMO) a 136 page memo, she certainly isn't going to read one even longer! Footnotes seem like a perfectly reasonable option to me because that memo was long enough!

 

[Ravenmoon]

Well, if the Judge isn't going to read a 136 page memo, she certainly isn't going to read one even longer! Footnotes seem like a perfectly reasonable option to me because that memo was long enough!

Is it a fact that the judge didn't read it, or is that your opinion?

 

[LaurelTedytamer]

Hi everyone,

I took a few months break from posting stuff on here about this case to just digest what has been happening - to me it was all about the attorneys behavior rather then getting to the logistics of the trial which seems the most important thing. I wondered if my thoughts would have changed but I still have issues about how things are proceeding.

First off let me say I do not know if RA is guilty or innocent and my heart breaks for the girls families.

1. I dislike he is held in a state prison (the conditions he is in) compared to others arrested for murder waiting for trial.

2. It gives me the angst feeling about the focus on the defense counsel behavior. Are they being a zealous defense counsel or are they being unethical? I do not know - but the focus should be a trial. Its got to a point I say if they have done some things wrong discipline them after the trial.

3. Another huge issue for me is wanting transparency in the Court. When there is not any then different people report back giving different versions of things said. Things get misreported - and a whole load of drama explodes.

4. Lets not forget the investigation. The missing recordings of interviews and no record of what interviews happened at the time. Add in what Todd Click is saying about his part in the investigation and how other investigators tried to close down and take his evidence he had.

5. Trying to phrase this bit right - I cant remember what exactly was said. It was after RA arrest that more people could be arrested...

All those points give me a huge headache.

I hope there is a big pile of evidence the prosecution has that they can show to the jury and make this case a huge big slam dunk of guilty and give the girls families some peace.

However I truly feel it could be a hung jury or guilty with so much speculation about evidence and grounds for appeal regarding the trial and investigation it is going to be a nightmare.

All these troubling points come to mind before even going into the evidence and interpretations of the evidence which is what the jury will decide on.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Well, if the Judge isn't going to read a 136 page memo, she certainly isn't going to read one even longer! Footnotes seem like a perfectly reasonable option to me because that memo was long enough!

I am making the assumptions she did her job and read them. But I can’t say that she enjoyed it. JMO

 

[layer]

Does anyone know what specific seized evidence the D was seeking to be excluded through the Franks motion? Everything?

 

[TTF14]

Is it a fact that the judge didn't read it, or is that your opinion?

Opinion. I will edit my post. At one point she did say she hadn't read it, but I'm not going to go find where because it was a while ago and it was about the first one.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Does anyone know what specific seized evidence the D was seeking to be excluded through the Franks motion? Everything?

Yes, they were trying to get the whole SW tossed and even the PCA. JMO

 

[layer]

Yes, they were trying to get the whole SW tossed and even the PCA. JMO

I don't think the PCA could actually get tossed? Just roughed up a bit; used as evidence of misdoings to try to get wrongfully seized evidence excluded. I guess I was hoping the D was asking for specific evidence to be excluded (for whatever reason they deemed) and that would give us a better idea of what seized evidence they consider the higher risk/priority.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I am counting what's in the Franks memo because it is backed up by 194 footnotes/citations.

Believing it's all lies is an easy way to just stay in the "RA is definitely guilty and is the only guy" lane and I'm not good with that.

IMO.

Carefully crafted and footnoted 'wordisms' by the D to inflame and push their narrative out to the public around the gag order IMO. Some of those footnotes and citations have already been disproven.

I'm not good with that, but it makes for good discussions.

moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hi everyone,

I took a few months break from posting stuff on here about this case to just digest what has been happening - to me it was all about the attorneys behavior rather then getting to the logistics of the trial which seems the most important thing. I wondered if my thoughts would have changed but I still have issues about how things are proceeding.

First off let me say I do not know if RA is guilty or innocent and my heart breaks for the girls families.

1. I dislike he is held in a state prison (the conditions he is in) compared to others arrested for murder waiting for trial.

2. It gives me the angst feeling about the focus on the defense counsel behavior. Are they being a zealous defense counsel or are they being unethical? I do not know - but the focus should be a trial. Its got to a point I say if they have done some things wrong discipline them after the trial.

3. Another huge issue for me is wanting transparency in the Court. When there is not any then different people report back giving different versions of things said. Things get misreported - and a whole load of drama explodes.

4. Lets not forget the investigation. The missing recordings of interviews and no record of what interviews happened at the time. Add in what Todd Click is saying about his part in the investigation and how other investigators tried to close down and take his evidence he had.

5. Trying to phrase this bit right - I cant remember what exactly was said. It was after RA arrest that more people could be arrested...

All those points give me a huge headache.

I hope there is a big pile of evidence the prosecution has that they can show to the jury and make this case a huge big slam dunk of guilty and give the girls families some peace.

However I truly feel it could be a hung jury or guilty with so much speculation about evidence and grounds for appeal regarding the trial and investigation it is going to be a nightmare.

All these troubling points come to mind before even going into the evidence and interpretations of the evidence which is what the jury will decide on.

I don't think any case is a huge big slam dunk. I just hope all of the evidence is presented in a clear and concise way to a jury of RA's peers. Then it will be for them to decide his fate. Jurors tend to take their decisions very seriously in my experience.

We can only speculate based on what little facts we really do know. I believe there will be more evidence to come out at trial because the State has been very cognizant of the gag order. The D, not so much. IMO

Ultimately this should be about justice for 2 young bffs who went for a walk on a sunny day on a school break.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don't think the PCA could actually get tossed? Just roughed up a bit; used as evidence of misdoings to try to get wrongfully seized evidence excluded. I guess I was hoping the D was asking for specific evidence to be excluded (for whatever reason they deemed) and that would give us a better idea of what seized evidence they consider the higher risk/priority.

We have the list of evidence they seized that has a file date on it, so we can be fairly sure it's the final one. So IMO, that's all there is from his property unless they took out some things and forgot to list them OR there was a second search that we don't know about. I haven't found any evidence of more than one search on their home.

The only boxes checked on the return are relating to his gun, ammo and vehicle. There is no lab analysis report on the carpet from his vehicle. The lab analysis report on the gun is available; I'm assuming the report on the carpet would be, too; if it had come back with results. I think the D wants the bullet thrown out.

NOTE: edited to add the correct link.

State of Indiana v. Richard M. Allen | Allen Superior Court

allensuperiorcourt.us

 

[girlhasnoname]

We don't know which phone he provided. He had several.

Right, according to the SW he had over a dozen. Lots and lots of phones, and hard drives, thumb drives and such.

I know some people say a few older model cell phones are not unusual, and I agree, I have 2 myself. Now it's standard practice on most cellular plans to return the old phone when you upgrade to a newer model. But RA had over a dozen and some of those were prepaid phones.

Curious, I truly don't know why a person would keep that many? Maybe he has information or pictures saved on them he wouldn't want to lose? IDK because he obviously knows how to operate thumb drives and hard drives.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

I do think it’s important to note that in the prosecution’s Response, it is Turco that points out that the defense team has misrepresented and lied about what he said, not the prosecution. Turco, as you pointed out, was probably going to be a big witness for the defense. He was their gateway to their Odinist theory. He may have torpedoed their case instead. He certainly has shown just how dishonest the defense are and they fooled a lot of people. RA needs better than this.
The first Franks Motion was indeed a crafted fantasy. It is filled with these types of things footnoted by unsubstantiated and irrelevant references.

I am just catching up on this past week because my oldest child was visiting for a few days,

I didn't think the defense could disgust me more than they already do, but here we go again. What are they doing?? RA deserves better than this because when he's found guilty, I'd like it to be with competent counsel.

When they misrepresent an expert witness so it better fits their theory it shows they are willing to stoop to low levels to get the public to believe there is some other explanation and their client is innocent. Facts can be set straight, but there will still be others pushing the Odin theory and claiming the state hid evidence to support it so they could frame RA.

 

[TL4S]

Well, if the Judge isn't going to read (IMO) a 136 page memo, she certainly isn't going to read one even longer! Footnotes seem like a perfectly reasonable option to me because that memo was long enough!

And IMO, the D most likely assumed the judge WOULD read all the exhibits, so why would they straight up fabricate stuff? And yes, some of their footnotes were admissions of inferences, but at least they were being transparent about that. Did they probably play around with the wording some to lean in favor of their argument? Sure. Just like NMcL probably does in his court filings, usually without many citations.

I just don't think AB and BR would jeopardize their careers by attaching exhibits and then lying. Molding the truth a bit? Maybe, but not lying. Nor do I think AB was purposefully leaking crime scene photos for public consumption. He's guilty of trusting the wrong person, that's for sure. There were prominent defense attorneys at the hearing who testified that discussing case details with people outside the team was not unusual and neither was keeping case photos in an unlocked room. The SCOIN didn't think the D team's conduct met the threshold of DQing (gross negligence). For me, as absolutely horrible as those leaks were (and still are), I can move that blame over the MW and company for now.

Do I love everything the D has done? No freaking way. But I don't see the problem with their defense at the moment. It was formed out of the Discovery, not their own minds. I also don't love everything NMcL has done, like reading ex parte motions. IMO, this is the nature of the beast and the evidence will speak for itself at trial, not these pre-trial motions and memos, by either side. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

So cant find even what i found last night regarding a Robert Ives discussing "geofence."
He may have even been using the word "geofence" for cell tower dqta dump.
So disregard. The trial will be the only way the public will know the extent of the cell warrants.

 

[TTF14]

I just don't think AB and BR would jeopardize their careers by attaching exhibits and then lying.

Lots of people seem to think defense attorneys, in general, just lie out of their behinds as normal behavior, but it's not the case. They can't do that. These defense attorneys have backed up everything they've said with proof (although some of the proof could be open to interpretation).