Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[Jade]

I haven’t seen that she called the police herself at 3am (she may have). But even if she did, we don’t know what prompted it. He may have been throwing things or self harming. We don’t really know - unless it’s been verified somewhere and I just didn’t see it (entirely possible). We don’t know whether she had to help him to the car either (officially), do we? It’s all unknown. She may not even have taken him for evaluation. She may have just driven away and out of area to wait for police to leave. I wonder if the State or the Defence has any evidence that supports he attended the hospital on that occasion and what the outcome was if he did?

It’s only of passing interest, imo.

RA has cooked his own goose much more flagrantly and verifiably since.

I feel like RA’s wife took him to be checked. My understanding is she worked for a veterinarian. Having served one as well we are pretty compliant to medical needs all around. That is what gave me compassion for her. I thought she had been to work trusting RA was off; fed,watered and stabled. It’s even more terrible that she was in shock and grief from her brothers death. She must be suffering so.


All imo

 

[girlhasnoname]

If the chain of custody was missed when discovery was turned over, the prosecution wouldn't be able to use it at trial (reciprocal discovery rule).

The whole bullet recovered from the CS would be inadmissible correct then? Surely it must have happened at some point or the State wouldn't be able to use it or have an expert testify to it and the D wouldn't be submitting the Worlds largest number of Franks Motions filed in a case trying to get the evidence thrown out.

Am I missing the gist of it here?

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

You have to be grateful for every event from RA's past life, no matter how insignificant, so that we can even assess him as a person. IMO Did we ever know as little about an accused as we did about him?

 

[Salah11]

You have to be grateful for every event from RA's past life, no matter how insignificant, so that we can even assess him as a person. IMO Did we ever know as little about an accused as we did about him?

I am convinced once he is found guilty and the gag order not in place a lot of people will come forward and shed a light on what a weirdo he truly was. There will be a lot of skeletons in his closet.

Mooo

 

[AugustWest]

The whole bullet recovered from the CS would be inadmissible correct then? Surely it must have happened at some point or the State wouldn't be able to use it or have an expert testify to it and the D wouldn't be submitting the Worlds largest number of Franks Motions filed in a case trying to get the evidence thrown out.

Am I missing the gist of it here?

MOO

The round would likely be admissible, but the prosecution would have to have each person that handled the round testify as to when they handled it, where, who they handed it over to, and so forth. Then the defense could impeach these witnesses; it would simply make their testimony weaker.

I say it is likely admissible because the judge is ultimately the gatekeeper of what evidence is admissible and what is not. But if she ruled in favor of allowing documentation of chain of custody which was not included in reciprocal discovery, it would be grounds for appeal.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The round would likely be admissible, but the prosecution would have to have each person that handled the round testify as to when they handled it, where, who they handed it over to, and so forth. Then the defense could impeach these witnesses; it would simply make their testimony weaker.

I say it is likely admissible because the judge is ultimately the gatekeeper of what evidence is admissible and what is not. But if she ruled in favor of allowing documentation of chain of custody which was not included in reciprocal discovery, it would be grounds for appeal.

Thanks AW.

 

[photographer4]

Or perhaps once police arrived he completely changed his wild and threatening behavior to docile and cooperative. JMO

I believe RA has two sides. One he shows publicly and one he is in private. IMO

Totally fair point that I had not even considered!

 

[photographer4]

The phone call to the police would be inadmissible on both relevance and prejudice grounds. A call to police about a drunken argument has no "tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence." Him being drunk and going to the hospital in 2015 doesn't make it more likely he killed the girls.

Rule 401. Test for Relevant Evidence

www.law.cornell.edu

ETA: sorry @photographer4, I just quoted you to get in on the conversation, not to pick you out

No apology needed! Thanks for taking the time to clarify the issue!! Much appreciated.

 

[photographer4]

I am convinced once he is found guilty and the gag order not in place a lot of people will come forward and shed a light on what a weirdo he truly was. There will be a lot of skeletons in his closet.

Mooo

But the general public isn’t covered by the gag orders in place, are they? Any official media reports I’ve read about RA, don’t seem to suggest those interviewed suspected him in any way. One from the time of his arrest had a former neighbor quoted as saying they’d have left their kids at his home if they had needed to (paraphrased). Here’s the link: Deputies responded to Delphi suspect’s home for domestic issue to ‘keep the peace’

Wonder what the friends and neighbors say now knowing he eats and smears himself with his own crap?

 

[Salah11]

But the general public isn’t covered by the gag orders in place, are they? Any official media reports I’ve read about RA, don’t seem to suggest those interviewed suspected him in any way. One from the time of his arrest had a former neighbor quoted as saying they’d have left their kids at his home if they had needed to (paraphrased). Here’s the link: Deputies responded to Delphi suspect’s home for domestic issue to ‘keep the peace’

Wonder what the friends and neighbors say now knowing he eats and smears himself with his own crap?

I still believe due to the nature of the case people that know him will wait until the trial is
over. Even the people he dealt with day to day haven’t spoken out yet.

Anybody decent isn’t going to want to damage the case before it goes to trial considering what he is accused with.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Barbara MacDonald stated that the bullet was found days later.
2:10 mm

Delphi Murders: Where does the case stand 7 years later?

Tuesday marks seven years since 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German were murdered in Delphi, Indiana.

www.courttv.com

The chain of custody pages for the search warrant items are obviously missing from that group of documents. Page # for CoC are in the fine print at the bottom of the pages.
Pgs 115-120

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Chain of Custody Documents
3. That the State made the decision to hand everything over to the Defense attorneys and not make a determination of what was discovery and what was not. That amounted to over 26 terabytes of information.
it. Basically, the State took hours out of it’s week to do the Defense’s work for them so that it was as convenient as possible for them to access the information they requested. All while attending several depositions set up by the Defense of various witnesses that the Defense plan to call that spanned over several hours occurring in different parts of the state. All the information requested by the Defense, minus the SOP’s and the chain of custody documents, was already in the possession of the Defense.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Barbara says twice that “it is her understanding” that the bullet was found during a second search. I did not watch the entire video. Does she provide a source for her understanding?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Barbara says twice that “it is her understanding” that the bullet was found during a second search. I did not watch the entire video. Does she provide a source for her understanding?

I don't know that I've ever seen her name her sources. I see it as implied that it came from LE.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I still believe due to the nature of the case people that know him will wait until the trial is
over. Even the people he dealt with day to day haven’t spoken out yet.

Anybody decent isn’t going to want to damage the case before it goes to trial considering what he is accused with.

"Anybody decent" who wanted to say something bad about him probably wouldn't damage the case by doing so. Thankfully.
MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

But the general public isn’t covered by the gag orders in place, are they? Any official media reports I’ve read about RA, don’t seem to suggest those interviewed suspected him in any way. One from the time of his arrest had a former neighbor quoted as saying they’d have left their kids at his home if they had needed to (paraphrased). Here’s the link: Deputies responded to Delphi suspect’s home for domestic issue to ‘keep the peace’

Wonder what the friends and neighbors say now knowing he eats and smears himself with his own crap?

Regarding your last question: IMO
Indiana folks, in general, are pretty strong supporters of their constitutional rights. Knowing what his circumstances were when he did those things won't sit well with a whole bunch of them.

 

[Salah11]

"Anybody decent" who wanted to say something bad about him probably wouldn't damage the case by doing so. Thankfully.
MOO

Why would anybody take that chance?

There is a gag order for a reason so unless you are absolutely garbage like the defense then the majority would realize it’s in place for a reason. It’s also being respectful towards the friends and families of the deceased by not muddying the waters yet .

Let the floodgates open once he is locked away for life. It won’t be long now as the clock is ticking.

Hell he likes confessing so much maybe he will write a book while he rots away in jail confessing his sins.

Moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Why would anybody take that chance?

There is a gag order for a reason so unless you are absolutely garbage like the defense then the majority would realize it’s in place for a reason. It’s also being respectful towards the friends and families of the deceased by not muddying the waters yet .

Let the floodgates open once he is locked away for life. It won’t be long now as the clock is ticking.

Hell he likes confessing so much maybe he will write a book while he rots away in jail confessing his sins.

Moo

There is no gag order on the public; some of those who worked with him and know him have already been interviewed and had nothing bad to say about him.

Public is public. What we say here can often be found with a google search.

 

[Salah11]

There is no gag order on the public; some of those who worked with him and know him have already been interviewed and had nothing bad to say about him.

Public is public. What we say here can often be found with a google search.

We will see one he is jailed if more people speak out. It is my opinion so I am allowed to express that once he is jailed for Life more people will come out and speak out about what an odd ball he was.

He clearly had a ton of issues and murdering 2 teenage girls was just the cumulation of his downward spiral.

IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just for the record:
When we get to trial, I'm sure there will be a lot of objections by the defense. I thought this would be helpful in understanding why objections and fundamental errors are so important.

Standards of Review
A claim of error in instructing a jury is usually reviewed for abuse of discretion. Miller v. State, 188 N.E.3d 871, 874 (Ind. 2022). When the defendant “fails to object,” however, she “waives appellate review.” Id. Still, we may review an instruction for fundamental error under a “narrow exception to waiver.” Id. An error is fundamental if it “made a fair trial impossible” or constituted a “clearly blatant violation of basic and elementary principles of due process that presented an undeniable and substantial potential for harm.” Id. (cleaned up). In evaluating the degree of error and its impact on the trial, we take account of any “unusual operative and procedural facts” affecting the case. See Young v. State, 30 N.E.3d 719, 728 (Ind. 2015).

https://public.courts.in.gov/Decisions/api/Document/Opinion?Id=S_VvRuBZtIyq0zcUBqVbTS0uFYL5GfI3Ka5OkXJPs92G8u5jqN491QXnn9i2Bw3I0

 

[FrostedGlass]

In the SC oral argument, they talk a bit about Structural Error.
CJ Rush seemed to agree with Leeman that JG's removal of the D's would be a structural error. My understanding is if the D's had not pushed this to the SC, and RA was found guilty, it is possible this whole trial could have been for nothing. If that's the case, then we should be thankful the D's fought so hard to be reinstated. MOO

One part of the argument I thought was a bit amusing was when the atty for JG said Rozzi and Baldwin were very experienced and highly competent and then quickly added in other contexts.

They also mention not having hearings and not having findings. I'm assuming that impacts how the justices make their decisions.

Indiana Appellate Clerk's Portal

 

[Emma Peel]

In the SC oral argument, they talk a bit about Structural Error.
CJ Rush seemed to agree with Leeman that JG's removal of the D's would be a structural error. My understanding is if the D's had not pushed this to the SC, and RA was found guilty, it is possible this whole trial could have been for nothing. If that's the case, then we should be thankful the D's fought so hard to be reinstated. MOO

One part of the argument I thought was a bit amusing was when the atty for JG said Rozzi and Baldwin were very experienced and highly competent and then quickly added in other contexts.

They also mention not having hearings and not having findings. I'm assuming that impacts how the justices make their decisions.

Indiana Appellate Clerk's Portal

RSBM
This past week Rozzi wrote a very pointed motion asking for a hearing, responding to an email from the Court (an email? really?) informing the D and the P that she'd scheduled the length of the trial without their input and that's that. Within his motion, Rozzi listed all the Defense Motions that the Court has not bothered to respond to, asked to be heard as to time required by both sides to present their cases, cited the laws vs. Gull's rulings and hearings track record in this case, and hinted of applicable appellate relief should the Court continue to deny RA his rights to be heard and denying his rights to a zealous defense. It did read like a record being made for the appellate.

As a result, Rozzi won both the Defense (~76 witnesses) and the Prosecution (~100 witnesses) a hearing March 7th.

To be fair, the Court had no choice. Had the May 7th hearing not been set, RA would have been on his way to another side trip to the Appellate.

JMHO