Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[FrostedGlass]

I mean, could you (or someone else) pls? I need a summary! I refuse to listen to podcasts on this matter!

It was a 3 minute call, looking for a rune "expert". He said he was mostly in agreement with the article that he read and thought they were both on the same side. He's met some really nice people, apparently one tried to help but she wasn't an expert on runes. He was interested in having the "expert" look at the crime scene photos and give an opinion on the runes. "Expert" would need to sign a non-disclosure.

IMO he's leaning toward a white supremist-type Odinist mimicking runes.
Or something like that.

You can cut to AB's actual message at the 17:25 mm.

The Delphi Murders: A Heathen for the Defense? An Interview with Troth President Lauren Crow

Richard Allen's defense team has crafted an alternate theory centered around an alleged cult of "Odinists" who killed Liberty German and Abigail Williams as part of some kind of pagan sacrifice. The theory has garnered much press attention and general criticism. But heathens — those who practice...

art19.com

 

[photographer4]

Are Baldwin and Rozzi ever held accountable for anything?!

Baldwin is the moron here. He’s the one who read the organization’s statement skewering the defense’s attempt to pin the girls’ murders on Odinists, yet could not discern that they were not his friends. He’s the one who called and left a message on a machine that for all intents and purposes was public, not knowing who might be hearing it. He’s the one flirting with the gag order.
Ms. Crowe had every right to share that recording with whoever she wished since she was head of the organization and it ended up on her private phone. Again, Baldwin is the one who stupidly left it. Also, MS deleted the moron’s phone number from the podcast. It was never made public.
The latitude and leeway this defense team is given is mindboggling.
If any independent person was allowed to ask RA, he’d probably say he has regrets for giving B and R any trust or credibility.
Just my opinion.

I haven’t listened to the message or the podcast but it occurs to me such maybe he left the message with the HOPE it would end up in the public domain? The lawyers for RA seem to want to try the case in the media more than in the the courtroom. Just sayin, this may be part of a grander plan / hope of theirs.

 

[photographer4]

It was a 3 minute call, looking for a rune "expert". He said he was mostly in agreement with the article that he read and thought they were both on the same side. He's met some really nice people, apparently one tried to help but she wasn't an expert on runes. He was interested in having the "expert" look at the crime scene photos and give an opinion on the runes. "Expert" would need to sign a non-disclosure.

IMO he's leaning toward a white supremist-type Odinist mimicking runes.
Or something like that.

You can cut to AB's actual message at the 17:25 mm.

The Delphi Murders: A Heathen for the Defense? An Interview with Troth President Lauren Crow

Richard Allen's defense team has crafted an alternate theory centered around an alleged cult of "Odinists" who killed Liberty German and Abigail Williams as part of some kind of pagan sacrifice. The theory has garnered much press attention and general criticism. But heathens — those who practice...

art19.com

Thank you!!

 

[grannygates]

I'm not sure why contacting someone who may be considered an expert to get their opinion is a bad thing. We want everyone to do their homework and consult experts. We don't want the defense to be a bunch of incompetent idiots. We want every defendant to get adequate representation so that if they are found guilty, we know that it was due to the evidence, not bad lawyering.

I think a lot of people are hung up on how theatrical the odinists theory seems, but there are girls who tried to murder their friend to appease an internet meme. Slender Man. People are weird and do bizarre things. I would rather have every avenue investigated and be absolutely certain through overwhelming evidence and expert opinion.

 

[Silver_produce0]

You can cut to AB's actual message at the 17:25 mm.

The Delphi Murders: A Heathen for the Defense? An Interview with Troth President Lauren Crow

Richard Allen's defense team has crafted an alternate theory centered around an alleged cult of "Odinists" who killed Liberty German and Abigail Williams as part of some kind of pagan sacrifice. The theory has garnered much press attention and general criticism. But heathens — those who practice...

art19.com

I know it was a popular song at the time. But it’s so odd that there is an alleged Odinism angle and I think Kelsey said the girls were listening to the song “Heathens” by 21 pilots on the way to the trail. This case is weird and you can make all kinds of crazy connections.

I think he’s guilty though and don’t think the Odin angle is true.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I know it was a popular song at the time. But it’s so odd that there is an alleged Odinism angle and I think Kelsey said the girls were listening to the song “Heathens” by 21 pilots on the way to the trail. This case is weird and you can make all kinds of crazy connections.

I think he’s guilty though and don’t think the Odin angle is true.

IMO:
Catchy tune with an interesting video.

This ADL article has been posted here a couple of times; it shows the Indiana history of the various groups mentioned, as well as the associates of a couple of men named in the case. You can see how easy it is for someone to say: "I'm this but not that." I guess if I had some of the stuff on my FB that some of these guy had on theirs, I'd deny any connection, too.

Behind The American Guard: Hardcore White Supremacists

You are being redirected...

The P hasn't proven RA's guilt to me yet and I think there is something behind the Odin angle. I just don't know what it is yet.

 

[Willow Knight]

I'm not sure why contacting someone who may be considered an expert to get their opinion is a bad thing. We want everyone to do their homework and consult experts. We don't want the defense to be a bunch of incompetent idiots. We want every defendant to get adequate representation so that if they are found guilty, we know that it was due to the evidence, not bad lawyering.

Agree with this, do their homework and consult experts. Everyone deserves a fair trial and I don't know anyone that wants an innocent man found guilty. Many people are invested in justice for Abby and Libby. Not only these two young girls, also their family and loved ones. I want the person that murdered Abby and Libby off the streets and dealt with accordingly. It doesn't matter, IMO, what their spiritual belief is. Pagan, Jewish, Buddhist, or Catholic, etc.

The thing is, I feel this defense has turned this case, this murder of Abby and Libby, into a circus. Images of the crime scene sent to YouTubers after leaving discovery in an unlocked room, using Libby and Abby's hashtag to solicit funds, attacking the reputation of prison guards. On and on.

Here is the thing, the defense claims there was an expert, a Purdue professor. You can read about in the Franks Motion or at this link.

Defense motion alleges Delphi investigator misconduct

DELPHI, Ind. — A motion filed by attorneys representing accused Delphi killer Richard Allen claims investigators misled the court about the interpretation of its interview with an expert from…

fox59.com

 

[grannygates]

Agree with this, do their homework and consult experts. Everyone deserves a fair trial and I don't know anyone that wants an innocent man found guilty. Many people are invested in justice for Abby and Libby. Not only these two young girls, also their family and loved ones. I want the person that murdered Abby and Libby off the streets and dealt with accordingly. It doesn't matter, IMO, what their spiritual belief is. Pagan, Jewish, Buddhist, or Catholic, etc.

The thing is, I feel this defense has turned this case, this murder of Abby and Libby, into a circus. Images of the crime scene sent to YouTubers after leaving discovery in an unlocked room, using Libby and Abby's hashtag to solicit funds, attacking the reputation of prison guards. On and on.

Here is the thing, the defense claims there was an expert, a Purdue professor. You can read about in the Franks Motion or at this link.

Defense motion alleges Delphi investigator misconduct

DELPHI, Ind. — A motion filed by attorneys representing accused Delphi killer Richard Allen claims investigators misled the court about the interpretation of its interview with an expert from…

fox59.com

I do recall the mention of the Purdue professor, but I thought that they were contacted by the investigators ? Or is there another mention of a professor contacted by the defense that I’m not remembering ?

ETA: just clarifying that by “experts” we mean expert witnesses who are hired to attend court and provide their expert opinion/testimony to the court and jury.

 

[sunshineray]

At some point after repeated screw ups, one has to look in the mirror and wonder who the real Dummy is here IMO.

What's that old saying, "Loose lips, sink ships". The D has nobody to blame for those two incidents but themselves. MHO

 

[katydid23]

The Indiana Supreme Court saw it differently and re-instated the attys.

And they refused to recuse the judge. So it was a stalemate.

 

[katydid23]

Your idea of what a normal "murder lawyer" has as a caseload is way off the mark. No offense intended.

IDK...I would think that such a high profile case---the double murder of 2 young girls in broad daylight in a park---might have representation by an attorney very experienced in homicide cases. I guess Delphi does not have many cases like this, thank goodness...

 

[FrostedGlass]

And they refused to recuse the judge. So it was a stalemate.

Stalemate? They found that the J was just plain wrong in what she did.

The Indiana Supreme Court determined RA's atty did not show that the J was biased.

RA's D only had half an hour to present their case. IMO getting the D back on the case was the priority. If it goes to the SC again, the argument for her recusal will be the whole half hour.

I didn't think the SC would recuse JG the first time and I don't think they will do it if there's a second time.

 

[snooptroop88]

Are Baldwin and Rozzi ever held accountable for anything?!

Baldwin is the moron here. He’s the one who read the organization’s statement skewering the defense’s attempt to pin the girls’ murders on Odinists, yet could not discern that they were not his friends. He’s the one who called and left a message on a machine that for all intents and purposes was public, not knowing who might be hearing it. He’s the one flirting with the gag order.
Ms. Crowe had every right to share that recording with whoever she wished since she was head of the organization and it ended up on her private phone. Again, Baldwin is the one who stupidly left it. Also, MS deleted the moron’s phone number from the podcast. It was never made public.
The latitude and leeway this defense team is given is mindboggling.
If any independent person was allowed to ask RA, he’d probably say he has regrets for giving B and R any trust or credibility.
Just my opinion.

"Are Baldwin and Rozzi ever held accountable for anything?!"
NO.
Evidently many years of combined experience* goes a very long way.


* =But how many years of combined experience? FM lists the total as 50+, p 125. Fox59 at one point put the figure at 70+ years. And I've seen other numbers out there, but I won't get into them at this time.**

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/richard-allens-attorneys-claim-delphi-murders-suspect-was-lied-to-by-police-never-read-miranda-rights-during-interrogation/

** =However many years, it is clear the number is insufficient in ensuring gag order compliance or misguided and/or otherwise misdirected/apparently ambiguous phone messages to/re: Odinists.

(APPENDIX omitted)

 

[EOA]

"Are Baldwin and Rozzi ever held accountable for anything?!"
NO.
Evidently many years of combined experience* goes a very long way.


* =But how many years of combined experience? FM lists the total as 50+, p 125. Fox59 at one point put the figure at 70+ years. And I've seen other numbers out there, but I won't get into them at this time.**

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/richard-allens-attorneys-claim-delphi-murders-suspect-was-lied-to-by-police-never-read-miranda-rights-during-interrogation/

** =However many years, it is clear the number is insufficient in ensuring gag order compliance or misguided and/or otherwise misdirected/apparently ambiguous phone messages to/re: Odinists.

(APPENDIX omitted)

It’s not really important but I think 50+ includes B&R, then it became 70+ when attorney JJA joined the Defense team.

 

[grannygates]

Judge Gulls lawyer certainly thinks they’re experienced and competent (he did save it with an “…in other contexts”) LOL a funny slip. He didn’t not mean to say that !

 

[somequestions]

Per the PCA, in the 2017 DD interview he stated RA was on the trails 1330 - 1530.

In 2022 the time changed to 1200 - 1330.

If RA can prove that the latter is the correct timeframe, he should be good to go.

Has RA stated that he’s not BG?

I thought in the interrogation transcript on October 26, 2022, when Holeman and Richard Allen were going back and forth, Holeman said that he, Holeman, was not captured in the phone video crossing the Monon High Bridge to which Richard Allen replied that neither was he captured on the phone video crossing the bridge.

I thought that was Richard Allen stating that he is not the person(bridge guy) from the phone video.

Maybe later on in the interrogation he confessed to being the person in the phone video, but that is not documented anywhere that I can find. If he did confess to being the bridge guy from the phone video during the interrogation, then I would think he is guilty. But why would that not be in the PCA? No one knows what is in the entire interrogation video transcript, but LE obviously arrested him after the interrogation.

 

[Spartygirl]

I thought in the interrogation transcript on October 26, 2022, when Holeman and Richard Allen were going back and forth, Holeman said that he, Holeman, was not captured in the phone video crossing the Monon High Bridge to which Richard Allen replied that neither was he captured on the phone video crossing the bridge.

I thought that was Richard Allen stating that he is not the person(bridge guy) from the phone video.

Maybe later on in the interrogation he confessed to being the person in the phone video, but that is not documented anywhere that I can find. If he did confess to being the bridge guy from the phone video during the interrogation, then I would think he is guilty. But why would that not be in the PCA? No one knows what is in the entire interrogation video transcript, but LE obviously arrested him after the interrogation.

BBM
I do not remember reading that part --Do you have link and a page number we can refer back to ???

 

[grannygates]

BBM
I do not remember reading that part --Do you have link and a page number we can refer back to ???

Page 10 from the motion to suppress

Motion_to_Suppress_Second_Statement.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Judge Gulls lawyer certainly thinks they’re experienced and competent (he did save it with an “…in other contexts”) LOL a funny slip. He didn’t not mean to say that !

View attachment 508427

I said yesterday they were competent local attorneys for the basics: OWI's, Theft, Drug related charges, Traffic violations, battery, etc. which is the majority of their caseload.

They are not equipped to handle this high profile Double Murder case of two young girls. It shows by their misconduct and disregard for the Court. Their behavior has been shockingly unprofessional on many levels from the day they were appointed at the expense of Abby, Libby and the families.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Stalemate? They found that the J was just plain wrong in what she did.

The Indiana Supreme Court determined RA's atty did not show that the J was biased.

RA's D only had half an hour to present their case. IMO getting the D back on the case was the priority. If it goes to the SC again, the argument for her recusal will be the whole half hour.

I didn't think the SC would recuse JG the first time and I don't think they will do it if there's a second time.

So now the D didn't have enough time to plead their case against JG!?