Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[steeltowngirl]

Keeping Holeman's words in mind, exactly what is it that makes the reenactments wrong?
What is it about the videos that aren't the true details?
Comments like those below can take a person's mind in a thousand different directions.

Maybe the girls never finished crossing the bridge, maybe they turned around and went back after taking A's pic, maybe BG took them down the hill on the cemetery, maybe BG was never on the bridge.
Moo

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Since the 2017 murder of Indiana teens Libby German and Abby Williams, local authorities have not released any information about the cause or time of death of either victim, leading to rumors and speculation. We spoke with Indiana State Police First Sgt. Jerry Holeman about why the police are...

www.aetv.com

(snips)
And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

Holeman: “[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

Maybe Holeman said that out of frustration that people were trying to reenact a murder scene - at all. The biggest difference might be two real young girls wouldn’t be really dead at the end of a reenactment.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Doctored photo may just mean the there is a filter in place for most young teens where it slims them, etc and/or defocuses the background etc. Photoshop basic stuff that is now easily available for your phone. That is the way I take that

There’s been a longstanding discussion by people that the photo was cropped and edited by LE. Posters here on WS discussed it and said they could see Abby’s shoulder near BG or something like that. Or her shoe. Maybe that’s what the podcast meant? Idk I haven’t listened yet.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I’m probably in the minority, but that cartridge was the deal-sealer for me.

Even if it were the only shred of evidence there is, nobody should be that unlucky. That there should be an unrelated cartridge between the two victims, six inches from one. That the caliber matches the accused’s gun. That the feeding and ejection marks would be seen as a complete match by a metric employed by LE to make such identifications. (They wouldn’t use a test if it doesn’t at least eliminate some large percent of cases.)

Yes and he didn’t know it was there before his October 2022 interview. He walked right into the trap.
This is why it’s so important that evidence and crime scene information isn’t made public.
No doubt if RA knew they had that cartridge he would have adapted his story and told LE a very good reason this evidence would have been found at the crime scene.
He would have most likely tossed the gun, the souvenir bullet and any corresponding gun evidence long before that search warrant was served.
all my opinion

 

[grannygates]

I’m probably in the minority, but that cartridge was the deal-sealer for me.

Even if it were the only shred of evidence there is, nobody should be that unlucky. That there should be an unrelated cartridge between the two victims, six inches from one. That the caliber matches the accused’s gun. That the feeding and ejection marks would be seen as a complete match by a metric employed by LE to make such identifications. (They wouldn’t use a test if it doesn’t at least eliminate some large percent of cases.)

I think it’s important to note that the lab didn’t say the cartridge came from RAs gun, LE did. LE states it’s from RAs gun and then quote the lab who say that it’s possible followed by a bunch of caveats. Ballistics isn’t a science. It’s a humans opinion. So all it takes is an opposition expert to explain how none of these tests mean anything unless you are able to test every single 40 cal gun in the entire world. (ALL MOO plus possible chain of command issues IMO)

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Wow, that is really interesting.

there are actually live satellite images but I think then scan/move so you don't actually get a live view.. but I might be wrong...and that would be good

Before RA was arrested, Tom Webster put out his first YouTube video researching the Delphi murders, titled “Delphi Murders: My Research”. It is over two hours long and very thorough and he’s not taking sides since it’s prior to the arrest.
One thing he did was manage to get a satellite picture of Delphi on 2/13/2017 at 12:58pm. Around the 6 minute mark. He was more interested in the CPS building but it didn’t matter because the resolution was so bad you couldn’t make out anything. So that was a bust.
He did mentioned that he found out Gray Hughes had done the same thing in 2019 and GH had said LE knew about satellite pictures at that time.
What all that means at this moment, who knows.

 

[Boxer]

Great question. It’s entirely possible he acted alone and I get why many firmly believe so. My theory is that others were involved digitally, if not physically. If physically involved at the crime scene, others may have entered via the cemetery or another path that didn’t cross with any witnesses. I have toyed with the idea that the girls left the area and got in a car or walked elsewhere and met someone or a group of someones, then returned to the creek bed, but LE is adamant that they were deceased by 3:30. So, that theory doesn’t work.

jmo

MOO
To me this is a one man crime. Always has seemed a crime of opportunity, the kind where someone is generally ready for the opportunty and pounces.

 

[Salah11]

I think it’s important to note that the lab didn’t say the cartridge came from RAs gun, LE did. LE states it’s from RAs gun and then quote the lab who say that it’s possible followed by a bunch of caveats. Ballistics isn’t a science. It’s a humans opinion. So all it takes is an opposition expert to explain how none of these tests mean anything unless you are able to test every single 40 cal gun in the entire world. (ALL MOO plus possible chain of command issues IMO)

It’s another bit of circumstantial evidence that ties him directly to the crime.

 

[Megnut]

I wonder when RA, if he's guilty of the crimes with which he's charged, loaded that gun.

At the time he loaded it, was he worried about fingerprints?

Could a fingerprint or trace DNA have been left behind, from the loading event?

He might not have been thinking about committing any crimes with that gun and didn't give it a thought, nor even he picked it up again to go to the MHB.

We know how badly the Defense would like to kick it out of the courtroom.

JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

Interesting thought. Perhaps LE did investigate the Odinist angle more than we know. And were duped by someone who inserted themselves into the investigation. “You want to know what we know”. Thus, the change in investigative strategy in 2019.

jmo

It sounds like LE did fully investigate the people noted to be involved with that angle. (Odinist) I've read this response several times, gives me the impression LE is making it clear there is nothing to tie these persons with the crime.

And again, I think back to those two burn pits that were dug up.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It sounds like LE did fully investigate the people noted to be involved with that angle. (Odinist) I've read this response several times, gives me the impression LE is making it clear there is nothing to tie these persons with the crime.

And again, I think back to those two burn pits that were dug up.

I too feel there’s a connection between the burn pits dug up and RA’s arrest soon after.

 

[Willow Knight]

It sounds like LE did fully investigate the people noted to be involved with that angle. (Odinist) I've read this response several times, gives me the impression LE is making it clear there is nothing to tie these persons with the crime.

And again, I think back to those two burn pits that were dug up.

Quoting my own post, forgot to add the link.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[Spartygirl]

There’s been a longstanding discussion by people that the photo was cropped and edited by LE. Posters here on WS discussed it and said they could see Abby’s shoulder near BG or something like that. Or her shoe. Maybe that’s what the podcast meant? Idk I haven’t listened yet.

Right !!!
some people have said they thought they can see part of Abby's sleeve or arm but honestly, I have looked at that video over and over ( and again tonight) and I just do not see anything at all like that.

Although, I could not see a goat or a puppy either so there's that.

 

[WildHuncher]

So all it takes is an opposition expert to explain how none of these tests mean anything unless you are able to test every single 40 cal gun in the entire world.

You could get someone to say the same thing about DNA. Some DNA matches are partial due to degradation or contamination. Even the highest level DNA match doesn’t rigorously prove that no one else in the world will test the same. It just makes doubt “unreasonable” to most people.

 

[grannygates]

You could get someone to say the same thing about DNA. Some DNA matches are partial due to degradation or contamination. Even the highest level DNA match doesn’t rigorously prove that no one else in the world will test the same. It just makes doubt “unreasonable” to most people.

I mean that ballistics in general is not reliable or reproducible.

There was a study called Ames 2, and what that study found that when they tried to reproduce the opinions of one examiner versus another examiner, they found that over 50% of the time, the second examiner came to a different conclusion on the same evidence than the first examiner," Gilleran explained.

"Reproducibility is a basic science 101 and a requirement for a valid scientific method. This particular method simply is not reproducible, and that's a big, big problem."

Ballistics evidence not reliable, Maryland Supreme Court says

The "DNA of a gun" used to convict the DC Snipers and hundreds of others doesn't meet scientific standards, judges rule.

www.wusa9.com

 

[FromGermany1]

That would be absolutely moronic and make zero sense as with audio and video footage now he has been caught it’s helped sink his ship.

If they were in communication then he likely took a phone not realizing there was more than one.

Imo

It would be nice, if LE had found the first phone (if there were 2 phones), which wasn't left at the CS, with RA's devices .....

 

[girlhasnoname]

If I were on the jury and only the phone video and some "witnesses" was all the state had, I would think he is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

However, if that combined with confessions that seem real(are they good enough?) and an unspent cartridge that may have come from Richard Allen's gun are believable, I would think he is guilty.

The phone video is simply too grainy to make a positive identification. How do we know someone else was not there that day who was not seen or remembered?

We don't know the totality of the State's evidence against RA. It's more than witnesses, the bullet and the grainy video. IMO.

The State has confessions, geo caching and something solid found from the Search of his home. That is my estimate. I think it will be the totality of all the bricks in the wall that will convince a jury of his guilt.

MOO

 

[susane7]

There’s been a longstanding discussion by people that the photo was cropped and edited by LE. Posters here on WS discussed it and said they could see Abby’s shoulder near BG or something like that. Or her shoe. Maybe that’s what the podcast meant? Idk I haven’t listened yet.

I don't know what Ausbrook really think but there are a niche of people who think the pic is fake and the girls never were at the bridge. I hate that theory because usually people who have that theory are always trying to implicate the family without any evidence. They think the girls died before and LE covered it because some reason.

I was wondering why any respected attorney would want to have anything to do with this defense team. The MS episode helped to clarify some things to me.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't know what Ausbrook really think but there are a niche of people who think the pic is fake and the girls never were at the bridge. I hate that theory because usually people who have that theory are always trying to implicate the family without any evidence. They think the girls died before and LE covered it because some reason.

I was wondering why any respected attorney would want to have anything to do with this defense team. The MS episode helped to clarify some things to me.

I am glad that MS commented on this area that has been confusing me for ages.

If you are a respected constitutional scholar or appeal attorney, the innocence or otherwise of the client is not your primary concern. Justice is your concern. Sometimes those can overlap as we see in well known false conviction cases. However in the present case, we haven't had the trial yet, and for all anyone knows, RA is guilty.

The reason i raise this, is we recently had a case of a relatively well known defence attorney who personally vouched for the innocence of her client, hugged him at the dismissal, did media claiming it was all a great injustice - then the body finally turns up in highly incriminating circumstances that torches her own reputation. Why do this?

It feels like every case I follow right now comes not with the mere claim that LE got it wrong but actual allegations of conspiracy and corruption by LE and the DA.

Murder Sheet posed the question, who is all this for exactly? And how is it helping RA?

MOO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don't know what Ausbrook really think but there are a niche of people who think the pic is fake and the girls never were at the bridge. I hate that theory because usually people who have that theory are always trying to implicate the family without any evidence. They think the girls died before and LE covered it because some reason.

I was wondering why any respected attorney would want to have anything to do with this defense team. The MS episode helped to clarify some things to me.

That's one theory I haven't come across yet. I will admit I'm one of those who question the picture of the man on the bridge. From the first time I looked at it, my brain decided he wasn't really on the bridge when the image was taken. BUT that's what LE presented to us so I pretty much went with it.

Ausbrook is a habeas attorney and who he represents is probably not about how he feels personally about those people. Considering the level at which he argues, I'll give his opinions more weight than some others offering their opinions.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

LOL, right? A podcast who has always been critical of the defense continues to be critical of the defense. News at 6.

TMS wasn't always critical of the Defense. It actually didn't start until the big CS photo leak, and even then I think they kept it more professional than I would have.

JMO