Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[girlhasnoname]

They are in fact the only contemporaneous notes, to which no external motivation or conspiracy can be directed. IMO the jury could well give them higher weight than anything said years later.

MOO

Agree, DD met RA at a grocery store near his workplace first contact with LE. DD wrote the notes down as we know he did because he has the statement of RA admitting he was there at 13:30 - 15:30, provided a phone identifier MEID number and RA admitting to seeing the other girls on the Freedom trail. He noticed one was taller and had dark hair, which was true.

Dulin made a notation to follow up with the girls. All this 5+ years before RA was arrested. It will be given tremendous weight IMO.

What if the phone identifier number RA gave DD wasn't located in the CAST, geocaching reports at all, but a phone found during the SW of RA's home was on the trails that day?

JMO

 

[Salah11]

Second time, correct. Recorded I assume.

First time was in a grocery store parking lot without a recording.

Yes quite convenient on his part to appear like the model citizen and admit he was out there as he knew he had been seen multiple times.

It’s funny though when that video of BG came out he never once in 5 years came forward and said ……. “Hold on there is some confusion here as that’s me but I didn’t kill them”

 

[girlhasnoname]

Looks like MW Motion for Continuance was Allowed Pre Trial in July, Trial in Sept - now he's seeking a bench trial. Hah

 

[FrostedGlass]

Looks like MW Motion for Continuance was Allowed Pre Trial in July, Trial in Sept - now he's seeking a bench trial. Hah

View attachment 510762

IMO That's likely a smart move on their part.
Just let the judge decide on the legal issue.

 

[Salah11]

Is a Bench trial the same as the UK so no jury?

If this is the same and I’m not sure if it is I can’t see the pro RA liking it considering how many here loath Judge Gull.

ETA - sorry if this a stupid question to ask
Moo

 

[TTF14]

Is a Bench trial the same as the UK so no jury?

If this is the same and I’m not sure if it is I can’t see the pro RA liking it considering how many here loath Judge Gull.

ETA - sorry if this a stupid question to ask
Moo

Yes, it's the same, but this is about Mitch Westerman, not Richard Allen.

 

[TTF14]

They are in fact the only contemporaneous notes, to which no external motivation or conspiracy can be directed. IMO the jury could well give them higher weight than anything said years later.

MOO

But if the judge allows information in (or the defense gets questions in even if they are sustained) about how much was "lost" or "recorded over" in the first several weeks of the investigation, I think contemporaneous notes (in lieu of the "lost recording") may start to lose their credibility with a jury. They're gonna start to wonder about all of this "lost evidence" on the part of the investigators.

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

But if the judge allows information in (or the defense gets questions in even if they are sustained) about how much was "lost" or "recorded over" in the first several weeks of the investigation, I think contemporaneous notes (in lieu of the "lost recording") may start to lose their credibility with a jury. They're gonna start to wonder about all of this "lost evidence" on the part of the investigators.

IMO MOO

Doesn’t change the facts RA is the culprit and that LE have evidence of that.

Just because they made mistakes it doesn’t outweigh the facts that they over came the early obstacles and did in the end get their man who has since confessed multiple times and can be placed on the bridge dressed as BG.

Moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

@TTF14
the thread closed but here are the links I promised

The defense team claims the phone and the girls had left the woods near the trail, arguing the timeline doesn't line up with the 90-minute window prosecutors say Allen was on the trail.

New Delphi murders evidence raises fresh questions in case, defense claims

DEFENSE attorneys for accused killer Richard Allen have argued cell phone evidence from the hours surrounding the murders of two young girls in 2017 could shed new light on the case. Allen, 50, is …

www.the-sun.com

Regarding this quote from your link: so far, this part in red is the only thing I've seen that he actually said. That wording seems rather unusual for what should have been an emotionally-charged (paper-eating and other stuff) confession.

I need to hear it in context, I need to hear what his wife was saying prior to his admission.

"He admits several times within the phone call that he committed the offenses as charged. His wife, Kathy Allen, ends the phone call abruptly," court docs said.

New Delphi murders evidence raises fresh questions in case, defense claims

DEFENSE attorneys for accused killer Richard Allen have argued cell phone evidence from the hours surrounding the murders of two young girls in 2017 could shed new light on the case. Allen, 50, is …

www.the-sun.com

 

[Salah11]

Yes, it's the same, but this is about Mitch Westerman, not Richard Allen.

Thank you I’m clearly a idiot who missed that part

 

[sunshineray]

Yes quite convenient on his part to appear like the model citizen and admit he was out there as he knew he had been seen multiple times.

It’s funny though when that video of BG came out he never once in 5 years came forward and said ……. “Hold on there is some confusion here as that’s me but I didn’t kill them”

I've said this before. I honestly think the only reason RA came forward is because of those girls, one of whom said "Hi" to him. I think he got really spooked after the fact, sitting home going over in his head the events of February 13th. The girls on the trail, did one of them recognize me from CVS? My town's much bigger than Delphi. For years and years when I look to get make-up or perfume I've never gone to the department stores, always to either Walgreens or CVS. Delphi being so small I bet it's even more of a draw for female teenage shoppers. JMO. RA had to come forward and say he was at the trails because of those girls and the fear he'd been spotted and recognized as that CVS guy. It wasn't because of any sense of trying to help, it was out of fear. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Looks like MW Motion for Continuance was Allowed Pre Trial in July, Trial in Sept - now he's seeking a bench trial. Hah

View attachment 510762

Wonder what the spin will be on this one? Poor MW, manipulated by AB? Will this simple case (he admitted in writing he committed the theft) be continued again to go to trial after RA's trial date?

 

[nadia90]

Doesn’t change the facts RA is the culprit and that LE have evidence of that.

Just because they made mistakes it doesn’t outweigh the facts that they over came the early obstacles and did in the end get their man who has since confessed multiple times and can be placed on the bridge dressed as BG.

Moo

Yes

 

[Megnut]

I've said this before. I honestly think the only reason RA came forward is because of those girls, one of whom said "Hi" to him. I think he got really spooked after the fact, sitting home going over in his head the events of February 13th. The girls on the trail, did one of them recognize me from CVS? My town's much bigger than Delphi. For years and years when I look to get make-up or perfume I've never gone to the department stores, always to either Walgreens or CVS. Delphi being so small I bet it's even more of a draw for female teenage shoppers. JMO. RA had to come forward and say he was at the trails because of those girls and the fear he'd been spotted and recognized as that CVS guy. It wasn't because of any sense of trying to help, it was out of fear. AJMO

But I bet he PRESENTED as helpful, CVS guy.

Didn't see anything, so a group of girls but wasn't paying attention. Gee, wish I could be more helpful.

Classic misdirection. And it worked. It offloaded his importance onto the group of girls.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

But I bet he PRESENTED as helpful, CVS guy.

Didn't see anything, so a group of girls but wasn't paying attention. Gee, wish I could be more helpful.

Classic misdirection. And it worked. It offloaded his importance onto the group of girls.

JMO

One has to wonder how this case would have gone if they hadn't lost that pesky tip narrative for all those years. Would they have even looked at anyone else? How much money would they have saved?

I remind myself that maybe he did commit the murders. Maybe he got rid of his blood stained clothes, knives, changed out his tires, replaced blood stained carpet in his vehicle, maybe he wiped all evidence from his devices, maybe he really did shoot the girls in the back, molesting them and others, maybe he committed more crimes than we know about... I could keep going.

 

[sunshineray]

Regarding this quote from your link: so far, this part in red is the only thing I've seen that he actually said. That wording seems rather unusual for what should have been an emotionally-charged (paper-eating and other stuff) confession.

I need to hear it in context, I need to hear what his wife was saying prior to his admission.

New Delphi murders evidence raises fresh questions in case, defense claims

DEFENSE attorneys for accused killer Richard Allen have argued cell phone evidence from the hours surrounding the murders of two young girls in 2017 could shed new light on the case. Allen, 50, is …

www.the-sun.com

I agree that context would be important, like if she said something like, "Tell the truth Rick". If it was something straightforward like that it would be very convincing, to me. But even if it was just uttered or muttered it could also be convincing within the right context. The jurors are charged with determining with whether there's a "reasonable" doubt, not zero doubt. AJMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

But if the judge allows information in (or the defense gets questions in even if they are sustained) about how much was "lost" or "recorded over" in the first several weeks of the investigation, I think contemporaneous notes (in lieu of the "lost recording") may start to lose their credibility with a jury. They're gonna start to wonder about all of this "lost evidence" on the part of the investigators.

IMO MOO

The notes that you are referring to...I assume those that include the Vinlanders, are not relevant to the guilt of RA.
The evidence that the jury will discuss is based on RA and his connections to the crime.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree that context would be important, like if she said something like, "Tell the truth Rick". If it was something straightforward like that it would be very convincing, to me. But even if it was just uttered or muttered it could also be convincing within the right context. The jurors are charged with determining with whether there's a "reasonable" doubt, not zero doubt. AJMO

Well, she and his mom still continue to support him so they must not have found him too convincing.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Well, she and his mom still continue to support him so they must not have found him too convincing.

Just because they seem to be supporting him doesn’t mean they think he’s innocent.
Lots of family members support their obviously guilty kin, even ones that have confessed or pleaded guilty.

 

[Jade]

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