Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[Ravenmoon]

KAK and TK were at the end. Even RL was rather late.

Initially, there were: people who reposted Abby's photo on the IG, the group that was invited to go to the bridge but refused, a scholar who, unhappily, did resemble BG, all schoolfriends, maybe parents of kid who squabbled with the girls, relatives, a friend who responded to a FB post, neighbors, and finally, someone with the history of unsavory behavior who happened to have an alibi. Then came: all men of Delphi, including own police. Then people living around, some local gangs, school athletes, and not to forget the young man that a Redditor met on a road. Then came the time of someone's relative returning back from jail and the family being unhappy with it. Then there was a slew of real murderers and molesters. Then some bloggers crawled out of the woodwork and started accusing everyone. I mean, this case generated a lot of oddity. I don't know whether it was that prize fund, or people simply viewed the situation as the way to resolve problems with own relatives, or what. And all of it in the context of paranoia mixed with unbelievable gullibility. Remember a troll posting as the wife of a court worker, for example. So I understand why the LE wanted to wrap it up.

Well, that is incorrect.

The Kline's were investigated in February of 2017 and RL was investigated in February and March of 2017.

RL was looked at HARD by the FBI, hence the search warrant for his property.

The Klines were brought into public view again in late 2019.

We simply were not privy to the information until later.

 

[Charlot123]

Carter kept speaking directly to the killer… A question to you: What will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls?"

RSBM - that was the PC when DC unveiled the photo to show a young man, made the age range younger (18-40 if my memory doesn’t fail me) and made him higher. Up to 6 feet, as I remember my discussions about it with some “photographers” reconstructing the case. I was saying that their pois, 6’2” youngsters with heavy legs, would break the bridge. People were saying that if 6’ was the upper LE limit, it could well be 6’2” IRL.

So either LE was suspecting someone else, which is not impossible, or they suspected more people but not RL as he was way older than their suspect, and tinier. Or, JMO, they were clueless in 2019. This might be the case way over anyone’s head, though.

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Yes, it is about justice. It is also about Libby who was so quick-witted that she left so many clues… it ought to have been solved within a week.

However, it is also a killer/the killers so bold that they abducted the girls from a bridge in full public view. And from this standpoint, we, the society, have to be kept safe from that person/persons.

If the right person has been arrested, great. If it is the wrong person, the danger still walks this earth. And given all the turns the case took, there are still big questions left/unresolved.

 

[Charlot123]

Well, that is incorrect.

The Kline's were investigated in February of 2017 and RL was investigated in February and March of 2017.

RL was looked at HARD by the FBI, hence the search warrant for his property.

The Klines were brought into public view again in late 2019.

We simply were not privy to the information until later.

Probably. (Hopefully we’ll be more privy during the trial. I have no doubt as LE collected DNA from 300 people as I think?) I can’t say that LE did nothing, I think this case was over their head, and quite possibly, the local police (Tobe L) was totally ineffective on the night of the search, and everything went askew from there. We may have not been privy to the information in 2019, but logic shows that the portrait and the description of the suspect in 2019 and had nothing to do with RA. The first sketch? I think it is the image of that guy in CO, forgot his name, the one whose wife had US and it was his alibi. That was their suspect then. In 2019, they were chasing someone else. Could happen. This is how I (being far from Delphi and not following the case since I realized their coroner in 2017 was totally ineffective) can explain the situation. And, no offense to LE. I am not against ISP and I don’t think they are corrupt. I honestly think it was a difficult case and they worked hard. But, two things:
- justice to girls
- protect us, the society from that brute

Neither of these points is valid if they arrested a wrong man.

 

[Jade]

RSBM - that was the PC when DC unveiled the photo to show a young man, made the age range younger (18-40 if my memory doesn’t fail me) and made him higher. Up to 6 feet, as I remember my discussions about it with some “photographers” reconstructing the case. I was saying that their pois, 6’2” youngsters with heavy legs, would break the bridge. People were saying that if 6’ was the upper LE limit, it could well be 6’2” IRL.

So either LE was suspecting someone else, which is not impossible, or they suspected more people but not RL as he was way older than their suspect, and tinier. Or, JMO, they were clueless in 2019. This might be the case way over anyone’s head, though.


Yes, it is about justice. It is also about Libby who was so quick-witted that she left so many clues… it ought to have been solved within a week.

However, it is also a killer/the killers so bold that they abducted the girls from a bridge in full public view. And from this standpoint, we, the society, have to be kept safe from that person/persons.

If the right person has been arrested, great. If it is the wrong person, the danger still walks this earth. And given all the turns the case took, there are still big questions left/unresolved.

Obviously from my post I was speaking of the mentality of the perp and RA fits.

They were not clueless they were also spot on in their thoughts of it being a man who lives in Delphi and/or works there in addition that he would be concerned about what those closest would think of him.

>>
"We also believe this person is from Delphi — currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here," Carter said.
>>

Delphi murders: Is Abby and Libby’s killer one of Delphi’s own? ISP says, yes


all imo

 

[katydid23]

Photo was released on February 15th. Presser where Dulin was up on stage with all the other guys was February 22nd. Why didn't he speak up and say, "Hey, that's the guy I talked to who said he was there!"

IMO MOO

Probably because Rick was just a CVS manager and local family man, nothing to see here....

 

[Ravenmoon]

Probably. (Hopefully we’ll be more privy during the trial. I have no doubt as LE collected DNA from 300 people as I think?) I can’t say that LE did nothing, I think this case was over their head, and quite possibly, the local police (Tobe L) was totally ineffective on the night of the search, and everything went askew from there. We may have not been privy to the information in 2019, but logic shows that the portrait and the description of the suspect in 2019 and had nothing to do with RA. The first sketch? I think it is the image of that guy in CO, forgot his name, the one whose wife had US and it was his alibi. That was their suspect then. In 2019, they were chasing someone else. Could happen. This is how I (being far from Delphi and not following the case since I realized their coroner in 2017 was totally ineffective) can explain the situation. And, no offense to LE. I am not against ISP and I don’t think they are corrupt. I honestly think it was a difficult case and they worked hard. But, two things:
- justice to girls
- protect us, the society from that brute

Neither of these points is valid if they arrested a wrong man.

They looked at many people, yes.
I don't think that the sketch was meant to be the man from CO.

I also disagree that any of the people that were looked at were labeled as a suspect.

Possibly a person of interest, which is a bit different.
The sketches were an attempt to put a face to witness descriptions, I would assume.

I think it's safe to say that they missed the mark.

Some see RA in the first sketch released.

The bigger match, for me, is the video.

The trial will give us more insight and answers.


JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

RSBM - that was the PC when DC unveiled the photo to show a young man, made the age range younger (18-40 if my memory doesn’t fail me) and made him higher. Up to 6 feet, as I remember my discussions about it with some “photographers” reconstructing the case. I was saying that their pois, 6’2” youngsters with heavy legs, would break the bridge. People were saying that if 6’ was the upper LE limit, it could well be 6’2” IRL.

So either LE was suspecting someone else, which is not impossible, or they suspected more people but not RL as he was way older than their suspect, and tinier. Or, JMO, they were clueless in 2019. This might be the case way over anyone’s head, though.


Yes, it is about justice. It is also about Libby who was so quick-witted that she left so many clues… it ought to have been solved within a week.

However, it is also a killer/the killers so bold that they abducted the girls from a bridge in full public view. And from this standpoint, we, the society, have to be kept safe from that person/persons.

If the right person has been arrested, great. If it is the wrong person, the danger still walks this earth. And given all the turns the case took, there are still big questions left/unresolved.

Hi Charlot, at the time of the 4/22/2019 PC, this was the height estimate for BG:
According to an FBI description, the man weighs between 180 and 200 pounds and stands between 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 5 feet, 8 inches tall. He was wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket or coat and a hoodie at the time of the killings.

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

Police released new evidence in the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana.

www.indystar.com

 

[Justice101]

Do we have a photo from social media of what RA looked like right before the murders?

I'd love to see it. I know the goatee was added later but wanted to see what he looked like before the crime was committed?

 

[rebelchild]

Do we have a photo from social media of what RA looked like right before the murders?

I'd love to see it. I know the goatee was added later but wanted to see what he looked like before the crime was committed?

I have wondered the same! Would love to see a photo .. there has got to be one out there somewhere.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Do we have a photo from social media of what RA looked like right before the murders?

I'd love to see it. I know the goatee was added later but wanted to see what he looked like before the crime was committed?

In this article, scroll to “Kathy posted a video on Facebook in 2016 that showed Ricky sitting in a car.” Video is a few paragraphs below that.

Kathy Allen, Richard Allen's Wife: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Kathy Allen is the wife of Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen, the pharmacy tech and married father who is accused in the high-profile murders of two girls in Delphi, Indiana.

heavy.com

 

[Jade]

I’m thinking RA didn’t say a word to anyone about being at the Park that day beyond his pre-splaining to DD.

The bar owner says they would talk about the girls and everything but noticeably doesn’t seem to know Richard Allen was on the trails that day and time and had come forward on record in an effort to help the investigation.

Mr. Matlock says they were social friends as well as at work so it’s interesting that there’s no mention of we knew Richard Allen was there that day and time and that it was an upset for him.

Matlock explains that he didn’t think BG looked like RA but that his patrons had said its looks like everyone.

[...]
“He would come in and we would always talk about the girls and everything,” Matlock, 75, told The Daily Beast on Monday. “We would carry on conversations about it, he would say, you know, it’s such a tragedy, and we’d say we felt sorry for the families and all that, but we tried not to talk about it too much because we all knew the families, and were friends with the families.”
[...]
He and all of the JC’s regulars were keenly aware of developments in the case as they happened, since everyone in Delphi was waiting for answers.
[..]
… “It could be anybody”
[...]
Becky Patty and Libby’s grandfather Mike told reporters on Monday that Allen didn’t charge them to print funeral photos of the two girls when they brought them into CVS for processing.
[...]
Stunned Bar Owner Recalls Delphi Murder Suspect Sitting Inches Away From ‘Wanted’ Sketch

I’m curious if he told the Patty’s at the time or his employer ever that he had been there that day and time and had made a report of such to authorities.

Knowing someone who worked at a CVS they are pretty strict about sales and stock I have a question as to who took in the photos for print originally?

Did RA take their order then they waited for there for them?

Or did they drop off the order and then RA took it upon himself to go to that counter to check out the Patty’s?

I wonder did Richard Allen who personally gave away the flyers say to his supervisor you know why and how upset I am about this crime so when I was ringing up the Patty’s photo order for the funeral I thought we wouldn’t charge them can you ok this receipt.

Or did RA go ahead and pay it out of pocket take his receipt and toss it saying nothing further?

Or did he just steal the photos from CVS give them away and say nothing to anyone after any associated paperwork was eliminated.

If that’s the case then Richard Allen had unfettered access to various means and methods of developing and distributing material with no oversight.

All imo

 

[grannygates]

Probably. (Hopefully we’ll be more privy during the trial. I have no doubt as LE collected DNA from 300 people as I think?) I can’t say that LE did nothing, I think this case was over their head, and quite possibly, the local police (Tobe L) was totally ineffective on the night of the search, and everything went askew from there. We may have not been privy to the information in 2019, but logic shows that the portrait and the description of the suspect in 2019 and had nothing to do with RA. The first sketch? I think it is the image of that guy in CO, forgot his name, the one whose wife had US and it was his alibi. That was their suspect then. In 2019, they were chasing someone else. Could happen. This is how I (being far from Delphi and not following the case since I realized their coroner in 2017 was totally ineffective) can explain the situation. And, no offense to LE. I am not against ISP and I don’t think they are corrupt. I honestly think it was a difficult case and they worked hard. But, two things:
- justice to girls
- protect us, the society from that brute

Neither of these points is valid if they arrested a wrong man.

I find that very odd that LE was willing to DNA test 300 people, but not the one person who told an FBI agent that his DNA would be found at the crime scene, even just to confidently exclude him if they considered him to be an unreliable source. Regardless of who is eventually arrested, if they are working this case with the forethought that this information would all be presented at trial, this confession, true or false, would always become an issue if they neglected to thoroughly investigate it.

 

[steeltowngirl]

#1. There was no source cited for 300 people having been DNA tested.
#2. If people submitted to DNA testing, most, to all, would have been voluntary. LE can’t just test without probable cause.

jmo

 

[FromGermany1]

Obviously from my post I was speaking of the mentality of the perp and RA fits.

They were not clueless they were also spot on in their thoughts of it being a man who lives in Delphi and/or works there in addition that he would be concerned about what those closest would think of him.

>>
"We also believe this person is from Delphi — currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here," Carter said.
>>

Delphi murders: Is Abby and Libby’s killer one of Delphi’s own? ISP says, yes


all imo

My thoughts recently were: If someone within the police apparatus knew so well, that the killer must have had much knowledge about the MHB area and had to be local therefore, then it certainly was the DO. As far as I understand, it is his job to know the same area and to control it on a daily basis. Despite that, he didn't recognize the RA as a man, who had exactly this presumed extended knowledge of the terrain AND lived/worked in the town - just like the killer, they were searching for. I wonder, if the DO never met RA in the area as a frequent walker, who liked to watch fish from a high bridge and whatelse. RA certainly didn't have his geographical knowledge through 1-2 walks only.

 

[susiQ]

Oh susiQ, you are technically correct. Touché! Drug and alcohol - related slander on Nick found in possession of defense team emails, and now in public legal domain, notwithstanding.

McLeland: Defense shows ‘Blatant dishonesty’ to Court - Carroll County Comet

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland says a press release Richard Allen’s attorneys distributed in December 2022 was just a preview of future content and “blatant dishonesty” shown to the court. On October 18, 2022, Allen was charged with two counts of felony murder, murder that occurred...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

jmo

If the shoe fits......

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I find that very odd that LE was willing to DNA test 300 people, but not the one person who told an FBI agent that his DNA would be found at the crime scene, even just to confidently exclude him if they considered him to be an unreliable source. Regardless of who is eventually arrested, if they are working this case with the forethought that this information would all be presented at trial, this confession, true or false, would always become an issue if they neglected to thoroughly investigate it.

Probably because they knew that person was intellectually challenged, easily manipulated, and that the people he claimed to have been with him that day had alibis.

 

[grannygates]

Probably because they knew that person was intellectually challenged, easily manipulated, and that the people he claimed to have been with him that day had alibis.

This person could have been manipulated into participating in the crime as well. What is the harm in being thorough in the investigation.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Probably because they knew that person was intellectually challenged, easily manipulated, and that the people he claimed to have been with him that day had alibis.

Are we talking about EF? According to the FM, he did provide a DNA swab.

Feb 27, 2018

EF is interviewed on video, by Jerry Holeman, and Kevin Murphy. Page 92. During this interview, Elvis agreed to take a mouth swab that would be used for DNA. After being dropped off at home, EF makes statement about spitting on one of the girls. Page 93.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

 

[TTF14]

This person could have been manipulated into participating in the crime as well. What is the harm in being thorough in the investigation.

BBM

Excellent question!

 

[katydid23]

I find that very odd that LE was willing to DNA test 300 people, but not the one person who told an FBI agent that his DNA would be found at the crime scene, even just to confidently exclude him if they considered him to be an unreliable source. Regardless of who is eventually arrested, if they are working this case with the forethought that this information would all be presented at trial, this confession, true or false, would always become an issue if they neglected to thoroughly investigate it.

I believe they did test him. If so, that'd explain why he was ultimately cleared. And it will hinder the DT's mission to get his backstory admitted as evidence in the upcoming trial. IMO