Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[sunshineray]

Well to me, If the persecution was presenting that many witnessed and taking that long to get through the case, I would have expected the defence should have similar time to refute their case. It doesn’t seem ok to me that one side would get more time by so much than the other.

All their cross examination of the State's witnesses is part of the prosecution's time. Why in the world would they need more time? It's RA's trial not the defense is free to put someone(s) else (SODDI) on trial?

 

[photographer4]

All their cross examination of the State's witnesses is part of the prosecution's time. Why in the world would they need more time? It's RA's trial not the defense is free to put someone(s) else (SODDI) on trial?

Given that we don’t know what the defence thinks they know or how they intend to defend their man, I couldn’t even begin to guess at how much time they may need. Pretty sure rozzi said something similar to JG when he accused her of having no idea how long their case might take given she had no idea what was going on.

 

[MiniMoo]

Wasn't the muddy/bloody man walking down the road seen around 4 PM? By 4 PM people could probably be heard calling out Abby and Libby's names. I'm certain the killing coward would have ran from the crime scene to the road as fast as his little feet could run.

Possibly. Could be. Maybe.

Witnesses, however, don't always remember things correctly like the time of day, scars or no scars or if the person was old or young and so on.

Was it really 4 pm and did they really see blood and mud.

A test was carried out some years ago of a mock accident to see what each person would recall as a witness.

Some of them witnessed it differently because of the angle they saw it at, some placed importance on whatever stood out for them first, some heard the impact before seeing anything so couldn't say who was at fault and some were a bit shocked so nothing really registered at all.

When it came to colours, that varied, as well as describing the driver and car.

That is why I have a strong appreciation for cameras.

The shoe and mobile phone were under one of the girls so I wonder if that really was a mistake or oversight.

Somehow I don't think so, but it doesn't mean I'm right.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The fear of discovery also easily explains the weird situation regarding clothes being swapped, some clothes being ditched in the river, one victim being cleaned up while the other is not, items being left at the scene probably inadvertently (like the phone and unspent round). It's my opinion that the plan (whatever that ultimately was) was taking longer than anticipated, and it's also possible he did hear some commotion and realized he needed to scurry off quickly.

JMO

Yes, I think the same about all of that.
And I’ll add, that I think it also explains the tree limbs and branches placed over the girls.
RA was panicked and rushing to get out of there. Not hard to imagine that hurriedly throwing some branches on top of the bodies would have been a quick and easy attempt to hide the bodies.

Opinion

Edit: typo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Possibly. Could be. Maybe.

Witnesses, however, don't always remember things correctly like the time of day, scars or no scars or if the person was old or young and so on.

Was it really 4 pm and did they really see blood and mud.

A test was carried out some years ago of a mock accident to see what each person would recall as a witness.

Some of them witnessed it differently because of the angle they saw it at, some placed importance on whatever stood out for them first, some heard the impact before seeing anything so couldn't say who was at fault and some were a bit shocked so nothing really registered at all.

When it came to colours, that varied, as well as describing the driver and car.

That is why I have a strong appreciation for cameras.

The shoe and mobile phone were under one of the girls so I wonder if that really was a mistake or oversight.

Somehow I don't think so, but it doesn't mean I'm right.

JMO

If I remember right, the 3:57pm time given for the witness seeing the guy walking along the road, came from the witness’s car being seen by the Harvestore security camera driving by just a very short distance down the road.

 

[MiniMoo]

If I remember right, the 3:57pm time given for the witness seeing the guy walking along the road, came from the witness’s car being seen by the Harvestore security camera driving by just a very short distance down the road.

So, was the witness driving?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So, was the witness driving?

Yes.
She drove by the security camera and then, probably a minute late passed RA walking on the road back to his car.

 

[MiniMoo]

Yes.
She drove by the security camera and then, probably a minute late passed RA walking on the road back to his car.

And when she gave her statement about what she witnessed - was it back in 2017 within a short time of that incident?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

And when she gave her statement about what she witnessed - was it back in 2017 within a short time of that incident?

As far as I can remember….yes.
LE was tight lipped about how they thought the killer left the crime scene and I think this is why. They already had a witness who saw him leaving.

Edit: added something

 

[grannygates]

Do you have something to link saying the FBI have had no involvement in the case with RA?

Someone here on the threads recently posted an article that said even though the FBI had scaled back their operation (because they got the right man IMO) they were still involved in the case.

Thanks

In the CCSO sheriffs debate, SEP29/2022, TL announces that he is the only investigator left on this case. MP says outside agencies have offered and are being ignored and refused to help.

Shortly after, they interview RA October 13/22 and arrest him Oct26/22. TL was the affiant for the PCA. The bullet went to the ISP state lab, not FBI.

We know FBI&Click task force focused on 3rd party culp, the FBI BAU was 3rd party culps and the FBI geofence division’s work contradicts the states timeline so state doesn’t want it at trial. I’m not sure where the FBI would be involved in the RA case. IMO it’s only ISP/CCSO.

ALL MOO

 

[sunshineray]

He didn't do a very good job of that by going to a conservation officer right after the crime to tell them he was there.

He was seen and the one girl saying hello, like a lot of hikers do as they pass someone on the trail, may have planted the seed in his mind that maybe she'd recognized him from CVS. He didn't walk into the PD, he told a CO. How that conversation happened, scheduled or just happenstance, we don't know yet.

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM

None of the witness statements that we know about even match each other, according what's been revealed in the Franks memo (that cites discovery from the State, depositions, etc. to support their claims). So, we really don't know who saw RA, or who else they may have seen that DID match their statements. We also don't know who RA saw....do we? Do we have confirmation he saw BB? Did he describe her?

IMO MOO

It's the ommission of BB and Libby and Abby from the statements to the CO that now make it seem very odd that RA didn't mention seeing them. It will also be even more suspicious if the phone RA says he was using to watch his stick ticker doesn't show up on the tower data or nearby Wifi

 

[TTF14]

It's the ommission of BB and Libby and Abby from the statements to the CO that now make it seem very odd that RA didn't mention seeing them. It will also be even more suspicious if the phone RA says he was using to watch his stick ticker doesn't show up on the tower data or nearby Wifi

Well, maybe he didn't see them because he's not "BG."

 

[Justice101]

Yes.
She drove by the security camera and then, probably a minute late passed RA walking on the road back to his car.

Yep, otherwise very hard to pinpoint a time just based on her recollection

 

[TTF14]

Possibly. Could be. Maybe.

Witnesses, however, don't always remember things correctly like the time of day, scars or no scars or if the person was old or young and so on.

Was it really 4 pm and did they really see blood and mud.

A test was carried out some years ago of a mock accident to see what each person would recall as a witness.

Some of them witnessed it differently because of the angle they saw it at, some placed importance on whatever stood out for them first, some heard the impact before seeing anything so couldn't say who was at fault and some were a bit shocked so nothing really registered at all.

When it came to colours, that varied, as well as describing the driver and car.

That is why I have a strong appreciation for cameras.

The shoe and mobile phone were under one of the girls so I wonder if that really was a mistake or oversight.

Somehow I don't think so, but it doesn't mean I'm right.

JMO

The witness didn't even say "bloody." Just "muddy." "Bloody" appears to have been added to bolster the PCA. Also, changing the coat color from tan to blue.

 

[Justice101]

Well, maybe he didn't see them because he's not "BG."

But he saw all the other people on the trail at the time who saw him??

How convenient of him no to see those 2.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

We know FBI&Click task force focused on 3rd party culp, the FBI BAU was 3rd party culps and the FBI geofence division’s work contradicts the states timeline so state doesn’t want it at trial. I’m not sure where the FBI would be involved in the RA case. IMO it’s only ISP/CCSO.

ALL MOO

RSBM/BBM

Can you please source your proof that the FBI geofence does not support the States timeline?

I have not seen any evidence of this.
Defense has changed the geofence area and timeline several times in their motions.
Perhaps I have missed a specific one that contradicts the States timeline.

 

[grannygates]

RSBM/BBM

Can you please source your proof that the FBI geofence does not support the States timeline?

I have not seen any evidence of this.
Defense has changed the geofence area and timeline several times in their motions.
Perhaps I have missed a specific one that contradicts the States timeline.

In addition to the motions from P&D regarding the content of the geofencing, the prosecution requesting that the FBI agent KH not be allowed to testify and his geofencing work & maps be excluded from trial tells me that the prosecution thinks this will conflict with their case and their timeline.

IMO If the information was simply transcribed incorrectly by defense and did support their case/timeline, prosecution would either be presenting the FBI work themselves or would otherwise not care if it was presented by defense because it wouldn’t conflict with their case.

https://www.scribd.com/document/728043164/Motion-in-Limine-Richard-Allen

 

[TTF14]

But he saw all the other people on the trail at the time who saw him??

How convenient of him no to see those 2.

Do you have a link for that? I'm blanking on him saying he saw Betsy Blair.

 

[TTF14]

In addition to the motions from P&D regarding the content of the geofencing, the prosecution requesting that the FBI agent KH not be allowed to testify and his geofencing work & maps be excluded from trial tells me that the prosecution thinks this will conflict with their case and their timeline.

IMO If the information was simply transcribed incorrectly by defense and did support their case/timeline, prosecution would either be presenting the FBI work themselves or would otherwise not care if it was presented by defense because it wouldn’t conflict with their case.

https://www.scribd.com/document/728043164/Motion-in-Limine-Richard-Allen

It strikes me how similar this is to the argument that RA must want the search warrant thrown out because of something incriminating they had to have found in his home. What other reason could there be?

Does the State want the geofence findings excluded because of something incriminating (exculpatory) it shows? What other reason could there be?

IMO MOO