Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[Vern]

With great respect, I think we may be talking about two diff things. I am NOT commenting on the overall lack of ruling / ruling against her removal. I am not even looking at why the motion was invalid.

I am ONLY pointing out the the SCOIN agreed with the D that JG failed to rule within the time she should have.

I can’t keep trying to explain my point. I’m sad. I feel I’m usually much better at expressing myself in writing and didn’t imagine I had failed so hard here. Again though, thanks for the discussion.

I am hopefully now off to enjoy the weekend. I hope you are too!

In all fairness, here's the text (bolding, colour and italisis by me):

According to T.R. 53.1(A), if a trial judge fails to rule on a motion or set the motion
for a hearing within 30 days, the cause may be withdrawn from the trial court.

The word may is not equal to will. To turn the may into an actual removal, further consideration would actually delve into whether or not the judge was justified in missing the 30 day deadline (there are exceptions and legally allowable reasons for non-response as already pointed out (Ie: the filing of repetetive motions seeking same thing). SCOIN did not even look at the reasons why the Judge missed her deadline - or whether or not she erred in doing so - because the defence repeatedly continued to file motions vice the required praecipe.

Here's what the SCOIN cited for the reason that RA had no relief:

Similarly, the benefit of Trial Rules 53.1 or 53.2 may be waived where the deadline
for a ruling has passed, but rather than filing a praecipe to withdraw the cause,
a party files pleadings or otherwise takes voluntary action of record inconsistent with
that party's right to invoke those rules. See generally Board of Medical Registration v.
Turner, 241 Ind. 73, 77-78, 168 N.E.2d 193, 195 (1960)(applying a predecessor rule).

With this they are literally pointing out that the Defence Team (not the Judge) messed up and was wrong with what they filed (more motions rather than the praecipe).

Nothing in SCOIN's ruling states that the Judge did in fact err in missing the deadlines (because the D Team messed up in ther filings and negated their own Franks Motions, SCOIN didn't even look that far). It does state that the Defence erred in their filings. And, we all know now as previously discussed that the filing of repetetive motions on same topic are one of the exceptions to requiring a Judge to respond in 30 days ... or at all.

I'm pretty certain that this ruling would/will hold up for/if any future appeals (ie: should RA be convicted) too, IMO, precisely because SCOIN had already ruled to keep Judge Gull on the case. Then the D Team, once re-instated, started firing in the Franks --- so Gull has probably covered her butt already with a simple "this has already been ruled upon (by SCOIN whose earlier decision kept her on the case) and nothing has changed since that ruling, so these Franks are repetitive thus require no response from me" arguement upon any appeal that may happen in the future.

2024-07-19 - Notice of Chief Administrative Officer's Determination Pursuant to Trial Rule 53.1E.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[susane7]

At this point I'm just hoping the pretrial evidentiary hearings happen as scheduled.

Me too. I think the defense don't want the hearings because it is likey that Judge Gull will stop the odinist theory. They want to file more motions about the "odinists".


I am remembering wrongly or the judge also still doesn't decide about a motion from the prosecution? The one the prosecution asked for the court to order the defense to say which confessions were coerced.

 

[sunshineray]

Me too. I think the defense don't want the hearings because it is likey that Judge Gull will stop the odinist theory. They want to file more motions about the "odinists".


I am remembering wrongly or the judge also still doesn't decide about a motion from the prosecution? The one the prosecution asked for the court to order the defense to say which confessions were coerced.

Ohh I missed that one. Do you by chance have a link to that? I'm horrible at trying to find these motions unless someone posts a pdf. I can find the court docket on MyCase but don't know where the actual documents are posted. TIA if you can help.

 

[sunshineray]

Here we sit, approx 3 months away from the start of the trial and my guess is that the Defence is still nowhere near ready to go to trial.

I’m beginning to think that maybe, just maybe, they have no intention of preparing for trial.

They only way to get RA off was getting the SW thrown out, allowing the Odinist SODDI strategy, or getting Judge Gull thrown off the case and getting a more favourable judge and starting all over. And if none of that worked, now messing with the jury and hoping for a mistrial is the plan. But, now we know their intentions. They’ve tried all of that. It didn’t work and won’t work.

Let’s not be naive. The D has read the Discovery. They know what’s in it. These are desperate times which calls for desperate measures.

Maybe, just maybe, RA will plead guilty. Maybe the Discovery is so bad that there’s no way to really defend him thus all this fantasy and skullduggery.

I cannot fathom why, with all of these confessions, the D just doesn’t let RA plead guilty and end it all. The only thing I can come up with is that they have lost their way and twisted it around so badly that they made this about them and not about RA.

It makes no sense.

I’m beginning to think that we may actually see a Guilty plea.

MOO

Snipped for focus...
"I cannot fathom why, with all of these confessions, the D just doesn’t let RA plead guilty and end it all. The only thing I can come up with is that they have lost their way and twisted it around so badly that they made this about them and not about RA.

It makes no sense."

The only thing that comes to my mind is they were hoping to become famous, legal rock stars and all the notoriety that would bring them. What they may wind up getting in the end is infamy instead. AJMO

 

[susane7]

Ohh I missed that one. Do you by chance have a link to that? I'm horrible at trying to find these motions unless someone posts a pdf. I can find the court docket on MyCase but don't know where the actual documents are posted. TIA if you can help.

Will the confessions be discussed in the next hearings? I don't remember.

 

[photographer4]

I think JG will hold R&B's feet to the fire after all of the ridiculous garbage from SM and their yet again failed attempt to get her kicked off the case.

Guys, do your jobs. For the sake of Abby, Libby, their families and the entire community of Delphi. Let's go.

MOO

In an ideal world they would have to act for the sake of the victims and families however, these folks, are not their client. They cannot act as if they are. RA is their client. No one else.

It does not mean they don’t care about these folks or what happened to them or what they’re dealing with currently.

 

[photographer4]

That's comparing apples to oranges IMO. This is a public true crime website. We are not affiliated with the Defense or Prosecution, nor are members here gathering intel on the down low to pass along to the DPG on up to R&B.

We are armchair sleuths commenting openly, this DPG is supposed to be Professional Licensed Attorneys who have and/or are still working with the Defense Duo of Defendant RA, in a double homicide case. This is very real for him, not a game or a SM crank session. Major difference.

I believe R&B have done RA a huge disservice in their representation even though I believe him to be guilty. RA is still entitled to a competent and vigorous defense, of which I think R&B have done neither.

JMO

I have sometimes wondered though, how do we know that invested parties are not here (or on other online platforms), perhaps just lurking and following along to learn more about: the case, the accused, the victims, the crime, get a sense of general public opinion on which side of the fence people sit on in terms of guilt etc. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that actually, there are lurkers for the D or the P or even the police here. Family members may even be here and may wish to approach the State to voice their concerns if that is allowable.

 

[photographer4]

Here we sit, approx 3 months away from the start of the trial and my guess is that the Defence is still nowhere near ready to go to trial.

I’m beginning to think that maybe, just maybe, they have no intention of preparing for trial.

They only way to get RA off was getting the SW thrown out, allowing the Odinist SODDI strategy, or getting Judge Gull thrown off the case and getting a more favourable judge and starting all over. And if none of that worked, now messing with the jury and hoping for a mistrial is the plan. But, now we know their intentions. They’ve tried all of that. It didn’t work and won’t work.

Let’s not be naive. The D has read the Discovery. They know what’s in it. These are desperate times which calls for desperate measures.

Maybe, just maybe, RA will plead guilty. Maybe the Discovery is so bad that there’s no way to really defend him thus all this fantasy and skullduggery.

I cannot fathom why, with all of these confessions, the D just doesn’t let RA plead guilty and end it all. The only thing I can come up with is that they have lost their way and twisted it around so badly that they made this about them and not about RA.

It makes no sense.

I’m beginning to think that we may actually see a Guilty plea.

MOO

RA may have plead guilty many times over to various people. But if he instructs counsel not to accept any deals offered, they must not accept any deal. Even if they believe it in his best interest, if he says no, they can’t do anything about it. Wonder if he has been offered any deal or if he asked the team to seek on out?

 

[justtrish]

That's comparing apples to oranges IMO. This is a public true crime website. We are not affiliated with the Defense or Prosecution, nor are members here gathering intel on the down low to pass along to the DPG on up to R&B.

We are armchair sleuths commenting openly, this DPG is supposed to be Professional Licensed Attorneys who have and/or are still working with the Defense Duo of Defendant RA, in a double homicide case. This is very real for him, not a game or a SM crank session. Major difference.

I believe R&B have done RA a huge disservice in their representation even though I believe him to be guilty. RA is still entitled to a competent and vigorous defense, of which I think R&B have done neither.

JMO

BBM- I don't know about this one. I wouldn't put it past the D to have people in this forum engaging with the public to plant seeds and gather info.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Me too. I think the defense don't want the hearings because it is likey that Judge Gull will stop the odinist theory. They want to file more motions about the "odinists".


I am remembering wrongly or the judge also still doesn't decide about a motion from the prosecution? The one the prosecution asked for the court to order the defense to say which confessions were coerced.

Yes, hopefully that will come up at hearing scheduled for next week. Judge Gull couldn't make any rulings until the Office of Administration of the SCOIA came back with their decision not to replace her IIRC.

There should be no reason R&B shouldn't be ready to go, unless they come up with another sly tactic for a continuance.

JMO

EBM: Added correct party

 

[TTF14]

Reading and reporting back maybe. Actually “planting seeds?” Very doubtful.

 

[photographer4]

In all fairness, here's the text (bolding, colour and italisis by me):


The word may is not equal to will. To turn the may into an actual removal, further consideration would actually delve into whether or not the judge was justified in missing the 30 day deadline (there are exceptions and legally allowable reasons for non-response as already pointed out (Ie: the filing of repetetive motions seeking same thing). SCOIN did not even look at the reasons why the Judge missed her deadline - or whether or not she erred in doing so - because the defence repeatedly continued to file motions vice the required praecipe.

Here's what the SCOIN cited for the reason that RA had no relief:

With this they are literally pointing out that the Defence Team (not the Judge) messed up and was wrong with what they filed (more motions rather than the praecipe).

Nothing in SCOIN's ruling states that the Judge did in fact err in missing the deadlines (because the D Team messed up in ther filings and negated their own Franks Motions, SCOIN didn't even look that far). It does state that the Defence erred in their filings. And, we all know now as previously discussed that the filing of repetetive motions on same topic are one of the exceptions to requiring a Judge to respond in 30 days ... or at all.

I'm pretty certain that this ruling would/will hold up for/if any future appeals (ie: should RA be convicted) too, IMO, precisely because SCOIN had already ruled to keep Judge Gull on the case. Then the D Team, once re-instated, started firing in the Franks --- so Gull has probably covered her butt already with a simple "this has already been ruled upon (by SCOIN whose earlier decision kept her on the case) and nothing has changed since that ruling, so these Franks are repetitive thus require no response from me" arguement upon any appeal that may happen in the future.

2024-07-19 - Notice of Chief Administrative Officer's Determination Pursuant to Trial Rule 53.1E.pdf

drive.google.com

Well, on page two of the doc you linked to, it says the judge failed…. It also says she failed to rule by another date as well just below where I highlighted. I understand their filing again vs stopping work and filing their complaint to SCOIN nullified their motion. But the point to me is, JG has in fact erred by failing. To rule by the date she should.

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM- I don't know about this one. I wouldn't put it past the D to have people in this forum engaging with the public to plant seeds and gather info.

True, I think they have 'associates' that come on and take the temperature of things. I believe it has happened in other cases as well, but that is just my personal feeling.

It's funny how when anything big comes up against the D we get a lot of traffic lol.

Planters and gatherers indeed.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Snipped for focus...
"I cannot fathom why, with all of these confessions, the D just doesn’t let RA plead guilty and end it all. The only thing I can come up with is that they have lost their way and twisted it around so badly that they made this about them and not about RA.

It makes no sense."

The only thing that comes to my mind is they were hoping to become famous, legal rock stars and all the notoriety that would bring them. What they may wind up getting in the end is infamy instead. AJMO

Maybe the State isn't offering Rick a plea? It's a horrendous double homicide of young girls. That's a heavy hitter and tells me the State is confident in their case, even though we don't (as we shouldn't) know the totality of their evidence yet.

Obviously it's strong enough for Rozzi & Baldwin to write 4 Franks and try to Replace Judge Gull 3 times already. LOL

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I have sometimes wondered though, how do we know that invested parties are not here (or on other online platforms), perhaps just lurking and following along to learn more about: the case, the accused, the victims, the crime, get a sense of general public opinion on which side of the fence people sit on in terms of guilt etc. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that actually, there are lurkers for the D or the P or even the police here. Family members may even be here and may wish to approach the State to voice their concerns if that is allowable.

Kind of a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. MO

 

[sunshineray]

RA may have plead guilty many times over to various people. But if he instructs counsel not to accept any deals offered, they must not accept any deal. Even if they believe it in his best interest, if he says no, they can’t do anything about it. Wonder if he has been offered any deal or if he asked the team to seek on out?

Do you really think that's the case, that RA is running this show? I don't.

 

[photographer4]

A

Do you really think that's the case, that RA is running this show? I don't.

I would have concerns about his fitness to do so given this is the same man who ate his disclosure, and smeared himself with fecal matter etc etc. I am unsure why anyone would think he is fit to instruct his attorneys really. But since it doesn’t appear that anyone in power has raised this concern or taken steps to override his right to instruct his counsel how he sees fit…. Then I guess the powers that be believe he is competent to do so?

Could the State have him found unfit to participate in his own defence? Or other concerned parties such as for instance his family?

 

[sunshineray]

Reading and reporting back maybe. Actually “planting seeds?” Very doubtful.

Why not? We already know, from the MS whistleblower, that some on the defense team have been doing just that within X, youtube and podcasts. It's a short hop and a skip to other platforms. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

A

I would have concerns about his fitness to do so given this is the same man who ate his disclosure, and smeared himself with fecal matter etc etc. I am unsure why anyone would think he is fit to instruct his attorneys really. But since it doesn’t appear that anyone in power has raised this concern or taken steps to override his right to instruct his counsel how he sees fit…. Then I guess the powers that be believe he is competent to do so?

Could the State have him found unfit to participate in his own defence? Or other concerned parties such as for instance his family?

His defense hasn't ordered an evaluation. Wonder why?

 

[iamshadow21]

His defense hasn't ordered an evaluation. Wonder why?

Given how hard they seem to be straining for any 'out', I suspect they haven't asked for one because they know it wouldn't paint the picture they want.

MOO