Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[sunshineray]

I cannot wait to hear about the testimony in court yesterday...in details.

 

[MiniMoo]

I’m sorry, but I don’t think that it can be emphasized enough that these conditions are nearly unheard of for a pre-trial detainee. The prison itself has a rule that an inmate cannot be held in segregation for more than 30 days.

I think the most important thing that isn’t being said enough - the posted “trustee” felons perched at his door with a pad and paper get TIME OFF THEIR SENTENCES IF THEY GET A CONFESSION OUT OF HIM. I want to scream that from the mountains. These inmates are benefiting from these confessions. IMO the one inmate (L) was released in exchange and the prosecutor and judge were like “whoa what??? No way!! Bring him back here!!”

The psychologist who oversaw his mental health treatment for the time period of these statements testified in detail today regarding her expert opinion of his psychological condition over that time period. She also testified in detail about the conditions that RA was subjected to and her concerns. I don’t understand how any human could hear these conditions and not be shocked, disgusted and horrified by them.

This information directly from the psychologist is incredibly important for anyone who wants to make an informed decision. We finally have expert testimony, so we don’t have to guess what his mental health state was during that time period.

I think one of my most notable moments from the psychologist testimony is that she gave RA a book to read because she thought it would help him. The book was written about a man who had survived a POW camp. That’s certainly interesting.

All MOO IMO just my opinion for the sake of discussion.

6 months, if true, is a long time to be incarcerated in isolation even if for someone's own protection - that really is a prison within a prison.

Not making excuses for anyone, but under such conditions I believe it would be possible for anyone to be crawling up the walls, pulling hair out and doing unspeakable acts as well as confessing left, right and centre.

Could it not have been done a different way if a confession was what they were after.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

If the case gets to trial to hear from experts and see all the evidence, I do agree. I am a "innocent til proven guilty' supporter of the US criminal justice system. When it works lol

But I have to say that what I've seen so far, I'm not willing to die on the hill of RA's innocence. I'm truly baffled by those who are. We're not to trial yet and haven't seen most of the evidence IMO but so far... Yikes.

I'm certainly willing to keep an open mind but my arms don't stretch so far as some others' do.

I don’t think that there are any die-hard innocence protestors here. I’m an “innocent before proven guilty” person and I expect to see actual real evidence of a person being guilty of a crime. (I admit I’m cynical with this case at this point. I don’t think blue jackets are compelling evidence)

I also find the vast destruction of evidence and the dishonest demeanours of key players to be very concerning. On the other hand , we have FBI/law enforcement testifying in court yesterday and tomorrow that have their original field notes, their interview videos and none of that was destroyed once RA was arrested. So naturally I find those LE to be far credible than those involved in all the missing evidence.

The testimony today by the Dr gave way more information surrounding the “confessions” so we are able to make a far more informed decision regarding them.

I understand how someone could think “wow how does someone confess to a crime they didn’t do” but good lord, we have talked about that til we’re blue in the face. Some people don’t believe in false confessions or that solitary confinement is inhumane.

I don’t want my response to deter you from posting your opinion at all. I’m always open to any thoughtful discussions and opinions about what’s said in the court filings, the evidence, testimony , court stuff, asking questions etc.

All MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

I don’t think that there are any die-hard innocence protestors here. I’m an “innocent before proven guilty” person and I expect to see actual real evidence of a person being guilty of a crime. (I admit I’m cynical with this case at this point. I don’t think blue jackets are compelling evidence)

I also find the vast destruction of evidence and the dishonest demeanours of key players to be very concerning. On the other hand , we have FBI/law enforcement testifying in court yesterday and tomorrow that have their original field notes, their interview videos and none of that was destroyed once RA was arrested. So naturally I find those LE to be far credible than those involved in all the missing evidence.

The testimony today by the Dr gave way more information surrounding the “confessions” so we are able to make a far more informed decision regarding them.

I would like to see what comes out in court as well.

I understand how someone could think “wow how does someone confess to a crime they didn’t do” but good lord, we have talked about that til we’re blue in the face. Some people don’t believe in false confessions or that solitary confinement is inhumane.

I don’t want my response to deter you from posting your opinion at all. I’m always open to any thoughtful discussions and opinions about what’s said in the court filings, the evidence, testimony , court stuff, asking questions etc.

If fully grown men that are seasoned hunters can break down emotionally and ugly cry just one day after missing their helicopter pick up - I reckon anything is possible.

All MOOi

 

[sunshineray]

Cannot wait to hear all the details of RA confessing in phone calls as documented by Detective Harshman. Just a few things. The count of confessions has risen to over 100. RA found God in 2023 and wants to be honest. RA has confessed many, many times to his wife and mother on phone calls. He confessed details to numerous people. He's STILL confessing even after the move to Wabash away from those nasty Odinist guards. He's worried about going to trial and his family will seeing what he did. WOWSA, what a day in court!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59.com/news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/amp/

 

[Salah11]

So he was coherent enough to realize he didn’t want his family hearing all the gruesome details at trail so he willingly confessed to protect them.

I find it more damning that he mentioned Abby and apologized for killing specificlly. Is it because Libby took the video and without that he likely gets away with the crime and there is some anger or is it more sinister and comes back to Libby looking like his daughter?!

https://fox59.com/news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/

 

[sunshineray]

So he was coherent enough to realize he didn’t want his family hearing all the gruesome details at trail so he willingly confessed to protect them.

I find it more damning that he mentioned Abby and apologized for killing specificlly. Is it because Libby took the video and without that he likely gets away with the crime and there is some anger or is it more sinister and comes back to Libby looking like his daughter?!

https://fox59.com/news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/

It crossed my mind that maybe RA was involved with catfishing Libby and it was her he expected to be there, as he walked with a purpose past that group of girls towards the Monon High Bride. Abby being there may have been a complete surprise to him? Just some thoughts

 

[Salah11]

It crossed my mind that maybe RA was involved with catfishing Libby and it was her he expected to be there, as he walked with a purpose past that group of girls towards the Monon High Bride. Abby being there may have been a complete surprise to him? Just some thoughts

Yes that’s also a valid point as well

 

[katydid23]

I’m sorry, but I don’t think that it can be emphasized enough that these conditions are nearly unheard of for a pre-trial detainee. The prison itself has a rule that an inmate cannot be held in segregation for more than 30 days.

I think the most important thing that isn’t being said enough - the posted “trustee” felons perched at his door with a pad and paper get TIME OFF THEIR SENTENCES IF THEY GET A CONFESSION OUT OF HIM. I want to scream that from the mountains. These inmates are benefiting from these confessions. IMO the one inmate (L) was released in exchange and the prosecutor and judge were like “whoa what??? No way!! Bring him back here!!”

The psychologist who oversaw his mental health treatment for the time period of these statements testified in detail today regarding her expert opinion of his psychological condition over that time period. She also testified in detail about the conditions that RA was subjected to and her concerns. I don’t understand how any human could hear these conditions and not be shocked, disgusted and horrified by them.

This information directly from the psychologist is incredibly important for anyone who wants to make an informed decision. We finally have expert testimony, so we don’t have to guess what his mental health state was during that time period.

I think one of my most notable moments from the psychologist testimony is that she gave RA a book to read because she thought it would help him. The book was written about a man who had survived a POW camp. That’s certainly interesting.

All MOO IMO just my opinion for the sake of discussion.

It is very hard for me to take her testimony seriously after learning about her background----working exclusively with pro-defence social media platforms, in order to help bolster her patient's abilities to be found Not Guilty eventually.

I'd prefer a non-biased mental health worker who was not there with preconceived notions about Justice Reform, etc, So it is hard for me to accept her description of his situation.

I will have to look more into the issue with trustees and their inmate duties. I don't know enough about it yet.

 

[katydid23]

I would assume if a box cutter was used, the pathologist would recognize this type of injury, and a box cutter would be included in the search warrant request for RL and RA. IMO

I'm not sure that there would be a quick recognition between a knife blade and a similar blade on a box cutter noted from the wounds. A pathologist can tell differences between straight edges and serrated edges, and can tell the size of blades, and estimate sharpness. But I am not sure they could tell if it was a boxcutter or a knife if both blades were same size and straight edged. IMO

 

[Niner]

Thursday, August 1st:
*Motions Hearing (Day 3 of 3) (@ 10am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 51) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westfield Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westfield to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Carroll County
Trial set to begin with jury selection on 10/14/24 (thru 10/17) & Trial reset to begin on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Saturdays from 9am to 5pm.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding / Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Jury will be chosen from among 600 people. Special judge Frances Gull expects jury selection to take approximately three days. She said the jury would then be sworn in on the fourth day (10/17/24) with opening statements beginning by Day 5, 10/18/24. That means the jury could start hearing testimony on 10/18/24. After jury selection, the actual trial phase of the proceedings will take place at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Gull confirmed Allen’s trial will take place six days a week — Monday through Saturday — if there are no religious objections from any of the jurors. Jury will be sequestered.
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 7/26/24 reference post #631 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-189.719769/page-32
7/30/24 Update: Judge Gull will hold hearings in Carroll County on Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday. She’s scheduled to hear multiple motions over the course of the three days:
*State’s Motion for Admissibility (filed May 6, 2024)
*Defense Motion to Suppress Second Statement (filed April 15, 2024) [under Advisement/7/31/24]
*State’s Objection to Defendant’s Motion to Suppress (filed April 15, 2024)
*Defendant’s Motion to Compel & Motion for Sanctions (filed April 23, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24].
*Defendant’s Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order (filed May 13, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24].
*State’s Motion in Limine (filed April 28, 2024)
*Defense Response to State’s Motion in Limine
*Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed May 20, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24/withdrawn by defense/7/31/24]
*State’s Response to Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed June 9, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]
See post #485, page 25, thread #189 for more details (article).
The defense has two motions to suppress various statements. The first motion to suppress deals with statements Allen reportedly made while in pre-trial custody. The defense wants to eliminate the possibility of prison guards or other inmates testifying about what they reportedly heard Allen say. The second motion to suppress deals with statements made to ISP just before he was arrested. Oct. 26, 2022, Allen & his wife went to the police station in West Lafayette pick up a vehicle that was seized earlier that month. When they got to the station, Allen had a conversation with ISP officer Jerry Holeman. The defense wants the content of that conversation kept out. Prosecutors object to both motions to suppress statements.
*Defense team argued that arrangements have been made to move Allen from Wabash Valley prison to Cass County Jail or Tippecanoe County jail, modifying safekeeping order from Nov 2022. Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett says he’s ok with that, as long as Allen isn’t returned to jail in Delphi. Judge Gull takes safekeeping motion under advisement.
*Defense asks to compel prosecutor to hand over evidence with better organization of 26TB of case files. Prosecutor says he’s giving Allen’s attorneys what they need, even ‘spoon feeding’ them, but they want things prosecutors don’t have. Judge takes that under advisement.
*Defendant’s 2nd Motion to Dismiss – Judge takes that under advisement.
*The Defense requested compensation of $12,600 for Baldwin to drive to Georgia to retrieve a photo from an internet sleuth found on BH's FB. No other info on motions for the afternoon. No tweets posted. Motions hearing continues on Wednesday, 7/31/24.
7/31/24 Update: The 2nd motion filed to suppress evidence, has been removed by the defense. First half of the day the Court heard testimony regarding the 1st motion to suppress. During two hours on the stand, former warden at Westville testified that Allen confessed to him, saying he’d murdered the girls, calling them by name. Prosecution suggests that the situation involves 61 incriminating statements over two months offered by Allen. Allen’s psychologist testified that normal DOC rules say someone with his type of mental health should only be in solitary for 30 days straight but he was in solitary for 12 times that. They got around those rules because he technically wasn’t incarcerated, he was just in the “safe keeper” program. She said other inmates were yelling at him to kill himself & that he was a baby killer. Allen told his family he felt like he was being mentally tortured. The prosecution says his mental health was properly treated & got better with medication. Also, an ISP detective in his testimony said Allen was being treated better than all the other inmates. Because of Allen’s “voluntary confessions,” the prosecution argued the motion to suppress should be thrown out altogether. See post #744, page #38, thread #189 for more info on Day 2.
The judge says she will take the State’s motion to dismiss under advisement, and allowed testimony, but voiced concerns about the language inside the defense’s motion. The two witnesses we heard from so far were employees of the DOC while Allen was at the Westville correctional facility. Some of their testimony was contradicting to each other. The witnesses appeared on the second day of what is expected to be three days of marathon hearings on key motions filed by the prosecution & defense attorneys. See post #840, page 42, thread #189 for more info on hearing. Motions hearing continues on Thursday, 8/1/24.

 

[Niner]

Question?? - Do I have "Under Advisement" correct on the above motions? Or??? TIA if someone can help me keep my notes straight!

 

[grannygates]

It is very hard for me to take her testimony seriously after learning about her background----working exclusively with pro-defence social media platforms, in order to help bolster her patient's abilities to be found Not Guilty eventually.

I'd prefer a non-biased mental health worker who was not there with preconceived notions about Justice Reform, etc, So it is hard for me to accept her description of his situation.

I will have to look more into the issue with trustees and their inmate duties. I don't know enough about it yet.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re saying she worked with podcasters? Not even murder sheet is alleging that? MS stated there was a list of her favourite podcasts admitted into evidence and that somehow they knew the Murder Sheet was not on there. I did not hear any testimony regarding of her opinion on the case or her list any podcast she listened to. You’ll have to give me more info.

 

[sunshineray]

Wow what testimony today! Detective Harshman's and Dr. W's...WOW! It seems RA wanted desperately to confess to his family for what he's done, the murder of two children. His mother and wife just won't except the reality of it. It was so upsetting to RA that he wanted Dr. W to stay in the room, while he recalled his wife (I guess she disconnected the first call?) and listen to him confess, yet again, to his wife and mother. They were having none of it, nope you don't know what you're sayjng, they've made you crazy in there. RA was so worried about his family still loving him after he told them and still he confessed over and over again only to be told by his wife and mother we don't want to hear it, don't believe it, let's change the subject.

It's not the accused that's in denial, it seems it's his family and attorneys. Just WOW. JMO

Murder Sheet

 

[MiniMoo]

CourtTV - Day 2 of the Hearings.

It was brought up today that RA confessed at one point that he shot the girls in the back - it seems he confessed all kinds of things at times.

What I want to know more than anything right now though is why did he turn around and glare at Libby's family without apparently losing that hold or stare whatsoever.

This was brought up by one guest on CourtTV who witnessed it firsthand as she was sitting near them so saw him doing it - she found it creepy.

I want to know if there is some kind of history there between the Germans and RA that we don't know about.

 

[grannygates]

CourtTV - Day 2 of the Hearings.

It was brought up today that RA confessed at one point that he shot the girls in the back - it seems he confessed all kinds of things at times.

What I want to know more than anything right now though is why did he turn around and glare at Libby's family without apparently losing that hold or stare whatsoever.

This was brought up by one guest on CourtTV who witnessed it firsthand as she was sitting near them so saw him doing it - she found it creepy.

I want to know if there is some kind of history there between the Germans and RA that we don't know about.

Oh man, this is why I hate that we can’t watch the hearings ourselves and we’re forced to listen to these podcasters trying to create drama to sell their shows. No one else who was present has reported that story or claim. MOO

 

[Andieinsyd]

Oh man, this is why I hate that we can’t watch the hearings ourselves and we’re forced to listen to these podcasters trying to create drama to sell their shows. No one else who was present has reported that story or claim. MOO

Agree, everyone will bring their own perspective to their report, it’s only human. And in fact I find myself cherry picking who I want to listen to. I would love to get the transcript - wonder if/when it will be available.

 

[Salah11]

CourtTV - Day 2 of the Hearings.

It was brought up today that RA confessed at one point that he shot the girls in the back - it seems he confessed all kinds of things at times.

What I want to know more than anything right now though is why did he turn around and glare at Libby's family without apparently losing that hold or stare whatsoever.

This was brought up by one guest on CourtTV who witnessed it firsthand as she was sitting near them so saw him doing it - she found it creepy.

I want to know if there is some kind of history there between the Germans and RA that we don't know about.

This is definitely intriguing as we have heard he specifically apologized about Abby’s murder.

This goes back to him dressing Abby and not Libby and leaving her out in the open nude for me.

Add in the fact his daughter according to Gary Hughes isn’t supporting him and hasn’t been at Court. Then her resemblance to Libby as well.


I believe it was this video where he says he has heard the daughter isn’t supporting her dad

MOOOOOO

 

[technicallymissing]

Oh man, this is why I hate that we can’t watch the hearings ourselves and we’re forced to listen to these podcasters trying to create drama to sell their shows. No one else who was present has reported that story or claim. MOO

Murder Sheet has also said they've witnessed RA doing what they would describe as "glaring" at various people in the courtroom. I haven't had a chance to listen to their Day 2 episode yet so not sure about this specific incident but they mentioned it in the Day 1 episode.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I’m interested to understand whether the confessions were made during the time period RA was possibly experiencing a psychotic episode, according to the Psychologist. If RA was in fact experiencing a psychotic episode at this exact time, and if they were contradictory and didn’t really make sense, that would reduce the impact of confessions for me. I want to read exactly what the Psychologist said.