Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[sunshineray]

The footage shown publically of the cell phone video - is it at the end of what Libby German was filming or the very start.

Does anyone know?

BG was not that far from the girls, almost to them. GH did a video of measurements, figuring out where BG was in the video, going by certain trees, the platforms, and other things. It was years ago so I don't have it handy but worth a watch.

 

[sunshineray]

I am pretty sure it is close to the start. Because the next thing that happens is he says Down The Hill....but we don't know what happens next except one 'leak' seems to be that one of the girls says GUN....

I'm pretty sure Anna, Abby's Mom, discusses what she heard on the audio in this interview

 

[Cyber sleuth]

BG was not that far from the girls, almost to them. GH did a video of measurements, figuring out where BG was in the video, going by certain trees, the platforms, and other things. It was years ago so I don't have it handy but worth a watch.

Yes he is not just innocently behind them. He approaches them at the end of a dangerous bridge, he pulls a gun, he says “Guys… down the hill” and cycles the gun.
In early audio releases you could hear the gun being cycled. IMO.
The full video has been described on many motions including the one I cited earlier.
All my opinion

 

[Tealgrove]

Yes that's something Dr. W testified about (day two IIRC). RA was desperate to hear his wife and mother say they would still love him.

I’ve never heard mention of him saying he wants his daughter to still love him. Anyone?

 

[sunshineray]

I keep seeing the word "cleared" being thrown around, but I'm not sure it's being used correctly. Is there a link to a statement from law enforcement that these 4-5 men you referenced were "cleared"? Note that I'm not asking if there was an alibi, nor does the arrest of one person mean others are in the clear. Thank you!

It was testified to over and over in the recent hearings and discussed here a lot. Those men, after much investigations, cannot be placed anywhere near the crime scene where and when the girls were murdered.
The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings
Parts 1, 2 & 3 are at this link.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[grannygates]

A suggestion that someone can’t be ruled out (after LE has no further interest in investigating them) sure seems like an accusation that these people are responsible. They’ve become synonymous to RA’s SODDI defense.

During the hearing McLeland asked each defense witness if any of the named Odenists could be placed in Delphi on February 13, 2017. Each person answered NO yet you suggest “we can’t rule them out as an option”?

I don’t personally agree that the defense should be obligated to meet a higher standard of evidence than the state has in its own case, but that’s just my person opinion. There are already established rules already in place for third party defense so I expect the court to just follow those.

I do think that some information could possibly come out of the geofence report that was done and the list of names that was provided by the FBI agent. That’s definitely a wait-and-see though.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

They have video. I don't understand why you think the man approaching on video, on the bridge isn't the speaker of G, DTH?

As he's approaching Abby says (paraphrasing) Can't we keep going? and Libby answers, The trail ends. He gets close enough to the girls that Abby says (paraphrasing), Is that a gun? He has a gun. Then the man says, "Guys" Libby mutters, Umm. The next thing you hear is same guy voice, "Down the hill".

How is that NOT the same man that was just videoed crossing the bridge towards them? I don't see how that's in question?

I just don’t take things as facts unless there is actual evidence of it being a fact. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s impossible. I just don’t think it’s the only possible option.

 

[grannygates]

Probably not the greatest choice as an expert - it seems she had already decided it was ritualistic as far back as September 2023 on CourtTV. I don't think that was with photos then either as she never got those until April 2024.

If anyone understands it to be different by all means please pitch in.

That was when the Franks was released and Court TV asked her to come on as an expert. She clarified several times (as did Vinny) that it was just her impression of the description in the filing and she had not seen any photos nor any discovery.

 

[grannygates]

It was testified to over and over in the recent hearings and discussed here a lot. Those men, after much investigations, cannot be placed anywhere bear the crime scene where the girls were murdered.
The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings
Parts 1, 2 & 3 are at this link.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

Do you know if the Murder Sheet discuss the current status of the alibis of the Rushville subjects? Or do you know if there’s a transcript online to do a keyword search?

 

[sunshineray]

I just don’t take things as facts unless there is actual evidence of it being a fact. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s impossible. I just don’t think it’s the only possible option.

I just don't understand what you mean? There is video with audio...and it was taken by one of the victims to boot. How is that not actual evidence?

 

[kae27]

It was testified to over and over in the recent hearings and discussed here a lot. Those men, after much investigations, cannot be placed anywhere near the crime scene where and when the girls were murdered.
The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings
Parts 1, 2 & 3 are at this link.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

Thanks. I am familiar with the recent hearings and was asking about the technical term "cleared" and not a second-hand interpretation. Granted, I am being persnickety about the word, but that comes with being an attorney, I guess! I'll assume that this has not been stated by LE.

 

[sunshineray]

That was when the Franks was released and Court TV asked her to come on as an expert. She clarified several times (as did Vinny) that it was just her impression of the description in the filing and she had not seen any photos nor any discovery.

So it was like a garbage in, garbage out kind of thing? She decided only hearing one side what her opinion was, just for a chance to be on TV and ratings? Then a few days ago on the witness stand she stuck to her guns even after she was told the "Odinist" men all had alibis and the branches (according to the guy who's confessed over 60 times) were placed to cover up the girls?

She was an extremely bad witness for the defense. Her testimony did not go well at all.
AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Do you know if the Murder Sheet discuss the current status of the alibis of the Rushville subjects? Or do you know if there’s a transcript online to do a keyword search?

More current than a few days ago?

 

[grannygates]

I just don't understand what you mean? There is video with audio...and it was taken by one of the victims to boot. How is that not actual evidence?

I haven’t seen the full video and I haven’t seen any reference outside of Liggett’s PCA saying that he was seen and heard.

The FBI agent didn’t include that in her search warrant and, outside of the Liggets PCA, I haven’t seen that suggestion appear anywhere in filings. I’m definitely open if you know that it has appeared in a filing outside of referencing the PCA.

My assumption is that if this man was actually captured on video that close-up that you could see him speaking, LE would have used that close up video to try to find him rather than the one they went with.

MOO

 

[Vern]

The uncertainty comes from the fact that there is another way to approach the bridge so this person could’ve simply walked from the other direction.

Roadway at the far end of the bridge appears on Google Maps and If you search directions to this bridge, it will include this roadway as well.

View attachment 522310

Then surely the 'innocent man' who Libby & Abby managed to capture in their video immediately before being told "down the hill" by the 'real killer' would have approached Law Enforcement and Investigators to provide them with a full description of this killer as he MUST have also encountered him.

Instead, RA approaches a conservation officer and nary a peep from him about the true killer on-site or a description of this true killer. Nor the "bunch of other killers/men" waiting at the end of the bridge who the girls didn't care to video/comment on etc. "He's got a gun". NOT, "they've got guns", not "they've got us trapped" etc. One guy. Only one guy.

All these years and he's never approached investigators with this info to give them a true suspect description (he can't claim he didn't know the description [of himself!] of ths 'true killer' 'was off' because we've all seen the photo of him sitting right in front of the crime psoter with the sketch on it. He hasn't even given that critical info to his defence team!

IMO, it's hard to describe an invisibe man.

 

[gremlin444]

I haven’t seen the full video and I haven’t seen any reference outside of Liggett’s PCA saying that he was seen and heard.

The FBI agent didn’t include that in her search warrant and, outside of the Liggets PCA, I haven’t seen that suggestion appear anywhere in filings. I’m definitely open if you know that it has appeared in a filing outside of referencing the PCA.

My assumption is that if this man was actually captured on video that close-up that you could see him speaking, LE would have used that close up video to try to find him rather than the one they went with.

MOO

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

Yeah, I suppose we just have to really hope that they have insurmountable evidence that it was indeed RA who marched them off that bridge. I wonder how they present this significant bit to the jury and how the D might argue against it... Listening to RA's words of confession with all context...

www.websleuths.com

See Cyber sleuth's post #798 on the previous page about where it is described in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023.

 

[gremlin444]

Thanks. I am familiar with the recent hearings and was asking about the technical term "cleared" and not a second-hand interpretation. Granted, I am being persnickety about the word, but that comes with being an attorney, I guess! I'll assume that this has not been stated by LE.

As far back as 2017, regarding BH there was this statement made:
March 16--"By March 16, 2023, Unified Command member Kevin Hammond wrote that “BH has been cleared.”
(from the memorandum in support of a Frank's motion Adobe Acrobat)

 

[kae27]

As far back as 2017, regarding BH there was this statement made:
March 16--"By March 16, 2023, Unified Command member Kevin Hammond wrote that “BH has been cleared.”
(from the memorandum in support of a Frank's motion Adobe Acrobat)

Thank you so much! That's exactly what I was looking for, at least as it pertains to this one person. I guess we believe the Franks, then, for this purpose?

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks. I am familiar with the recent hearings and was asking about the technical term "cleared" and not a second-hand interpretation. Granted, I am being persnickety about the word, but that comes with being an attorney, I guess! I'll assume that this has not been stated by LE.

It was testimony, under oath in front of the judge. I wouldn't call that second hand. What was said, testified to, over and over by investigators was none of those men mentioned in the FM as alternative murderers of the girls could be place at the scene, at the time of the murders. They have been checked out, by numerous LE including one of the authors of that Odinists police report and Click himself, and cannot be the killers. That's pretty cut and dry, IMO.

 

[grannygates]

Then surely the 'innocent man' who Libby & Abby managed to capture in their video immediately before being told "down the hill" by the 'real killer' would have approached Law Enforcement and Investigators to provide them with a full description of this killer as he MUST have also encontered him.

Instead, RA approcahes a conservation officer and nary a peep from him about the true killer on-site or a description of this true killer. All these years and he's never approached investigators with this info to give them a true suspect description (he can't claim he didn't know the description [of himself!] of ths 'true killer' 'was off' because we've all seen the photo of him sitting right in front of the crime psoter with the sketch on it.

IMO, it's hard to describe an invisibe man.

I’m not really following, but RA said that he left around 1:30 and the girls arrived shortly after so they wouldn’t have run into each other. There were a lot of other people on the trail and the bridge that day.

I already did a lengthy post earlier about how if the guy in the video was innocent he would probably not come forward because people want to convict him for appearing in the back of the video. The man not coming forward doesn’t automatically mean bridge guy is RA. That connection doesn’t connect IMO

BG in the video could also just be another person involved in the crime (like a 20 year old with brown poofy hair like the witness who saw him described) who didn’t come forward as a witness and they didn’t collect evidence that identified him. Or they investigated him already and his name is in their files. Lots of options, not a lot of answers. MOO IMO