Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[sunshineray]

I was highlighting the known errors in his report as a suggestion of why the other information may not be reliable. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past so we don’t need to rehash again.

I think DD will have no problem answering these two questions on the stand.

Q: Do you see the man that you interviewed outside the CVS on this date in the courtroom today?
A: Yes sir
Q: Can you please point him out for the record?
A: That's him sitting right there.

As far as his report. We don't know yet how the error happened. Was it transposed into the computer system incorrectly? We will know in October. Or maybe sooner, if there are more pretrial hearings.
AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

What ever are you talking about here?

It's a joke

 

[sunshineray]

is it possible that they were met at the END of the bridge by someone who isn’t RA? We see he approached the kids in his walk toward them from the opposite side, but could that have been someone who might have been originally at the side they were ending up at and then he doubled back so he was no behind them? If RA was at the end where they were dropped off - IFFFFFF he did leave as he says he did (which the D will surely be pushing, though I have no idea how they’ll try to prove this!!)… is this an avenue the D might then try to push - SODDI did it. The SOD was already at the end of the bridge, went out, doubled back and it went down that way - RA wasn’t the guy….??

Just trying to see ways the D might try to dissuade a jury from thinking RA is the guy BARD.

No I don't think so. According to Anna, Abby's Mom, in that interview I posted, the girls were discussing getting away from the approaching man in that direction but it was private property. Sweet things </3 Abby said something like (paraphrasing) can we go that way? And Libby answered something like (paraphrasing) No the trail ends there, that's private property. They were too young to see the real danger and just hightail it through wherever they had to to get away. </3 MO

 

[katydid23]

is it possible that they were met at the END of the bridge by someone who isn’t RA? We see he approached the kids in his walk toward them from the opposite side, but could that have been someone who might have been originally at the side they were ending up at and then he doubled back so he was no behind them? If RA was at the end where they were dropped off - IFFFFFF he did leave as he says he did (which the D will surely be pushing, though I have no idea how they’ll try to prove this!!)… is this an avenue the D might then try to push - SODDI did it. The SOD was already at the end of the bridge, went out, doubled back and it went down that way - RA wasn’t the guy….??

Just trying to see ways the D might try to dissuade a jury from thinking RA is the guy BARD.

I don't think your scenario is possible because of the timing on the video clip. We SEE BG right there, walking up to the girls, and you hear them talking about him being right behind Abby, and then very quickly a man says Guys, Down the Hill... There is no time for it to be someone else besides BG. IMO

But IF someone else had suddenly appeared, would they have dared try to kidnap the girls with BG standing right there? Why didn't BG say anything if that was supposedly some other guy with a gun?

Why didn't BG ever say anything if he witnessed the kidnapping?

 

[katydid23]

I wonder how much he was “seen”!? Watch them drop a full face shot of him at the trial. lol. That would be amazing!

If they had a full face shot of him they'd have shown it to the public from day one, IMO

 

[grannygates]

If she is a prosecution witness, why would they put her on the stand? It's a lose/lose for defense and prosecution to have her as a witness.

She’s one of the witnesses the state called from the prison to testify to the circumstances at the prison during the time period surrounding his confessions. The state already knew about her personal interest in the case and they still kept her in her position and called her to testify. This isn’t anything new lol

The doctor has record of detailed patient notes surrounding RAs condition over the time period of the confessions so it gives a lot of expert insight and opinion into those behaviours.

She’s a state witness so it is interesting if the state no longer calls her and she then becomes beneficial to the defense.

I have the impression that if her testimony aligned with the state, her personal interests would be minimized and far fewer people would think she shouldn’t testify.

I think that, just like at this hearing, everyone should be made aware that she had a personal interest in this case prior to the arrest so they can consider this when she gives her expert opinion and decide for themselves if she seems biased in her patient care. Unfortunately she was the primary care provider for the entire time he was in solitary confinement so she is an incredibly important witness. There’s not really any rehiring anyone at this point.

All MOO

 

[grannygates]

But if it was misfiled from the beginning, it would be invisible to the investigation. Garbage in, garbage out.

MOO

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

 

[katydid23]

She’s one of the witnesses the state called from the prison to testify to the circumstances at the prison during the time period surrounding his confessions. The state already knew about her personal interest in the case and they still kept her in her position and called her to testify. This isn’t anything new lol

The doctor has record of detailed patient notes surrounding RAs condition over the time period of the confessions so it gives a lot of expert insight and opinion into those behaviours.

She’s a state witness so it is interesting if the state no longer calls her and she then becomes beneficial to the defense.

I have the impression that if her testimony aligned with the state, her personal interests would be minimized and far fewer people would think she shouldn’t testify.

I think that, just like at this hearing, everyone should be made aware that she had a personal interest in this case prior to the arrest so they can consider this when she gives her expert opinion and decide for themselves if she seems biased in her patient care. Unfortunately she was the primary care provider for the entire time he was in solitary confinement so she is an incredibly important witness. There’s not really any rehiring anyone at this point.

All MOO

Didn't he also give her a full confession of the murders? I thought that was the reason the State want her to be a trial witness. It would be especially damning for the defense if she was considered a close friend of their client and he confessed his crimes to her. He would not have felt intimidated but he would have felt comfortable enough to do so.

 

[katydid23]

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

Wait a minute--didn't you just make a comment about the many mistakes made by DD? Wrong name, wrong address, etc?
Are we know saying everything was done correctly?


ETA:
"Dan Dulin wrote down that Rick Whiteman said that he was at the trails between 130 and 330..."

"I was highlighting the known errors in his report as a suggestion of why the other information may not be reliable. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past so we don’t need to rehash again."

 

[photographer4]

If they had a full face shot of him they'd have shown it to the public from day one, IMO

I agree. But I do wonder if they have something identifiable in terms of clothing (eg : a button missing or a broken zipper).

 

[iamshadow21]

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

I think that's splitting hairs. If the surname was written down as Whiteman, it could be filed 'correctly', but also completely incorrectly because the information used to file it was wrong.

It's the FBI saying they did the correct procedure with the information they were given... which had a major error in it from the originator. Very much 'not our problem'ing the problem.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

I think that's splitting hairs. If the surname was written down as Whiteman, it could be filed 'correctly', but also completely incorrectly because the information used to file it was wrong.

It's the FBI saying they did the correct procedure with the information they were given... which had a major error in it from the originator. Very much 'not our problem'ing the problem.

MOO

The rumour that was started by the Murder Sheet was that an FBI agent misfiled the tip in the system which caused it to be lost for years. Somehow “finding” this tip “solved” this case.

A surname of a random person shouldn’t matter and isn’t misfiling. That would be an data entry error and not really affect the tip becoming “lost” within the system.

If there was a civilian tip, they would get RAs real name.

They also said they were combing over every tip. Why didn’t they “find” the tip then?

It’s all strange and unbelievable. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I think our memories are good around the time something occurs, but months later they can start to fade somewhat so 6 years later things may alter a little.

RA may have not had a strong recollection of what was brought up in his initial interview as to why the inconsistencies in time.

Not trying to make excuses for him - he just may not have remembered everything that was said.

That's also why so many bad people finally get caught, inconsistencies. I look forward to see DD on the stand and hear about the interview first hand what he remembers. He may have even kept his original notes.

 

[grannygates]

Didn't he also give her a full confession of the murders? I thought that was the reason the State want her to be a trial witness. It would be especially damning for the defense if she was considered a close friend of their client and he confessed his crimes to her. He would not have felt intimidated but he would have felt comfortable enough to do so.

I’m not sure. I only really heard a story about him not knowing how to dial a phone and I think that was a call to his wife? So I only heard of very general statements, nothing specific so I can’t say what he said.

I mostly recall her treatment of him as a patient, the medical diagnoses he received and the weekly involuntary IV medication haldol, so more the mental health program side of it.

So I guess if you’re the state and you want to put this witness up to get in these confessions, you have to believe that none of the jury will believe a psychologist classifying someone as psychotic and prescribing involuntary medication and then comes in all of the video of all of these events of psychopathy occurring so that the jury will see it all of it first hand.

So you gotta wonder, for the state, does the reward outweigh the risk?

 

[sunshineray]

What I am seeing is that it was misfiled by NAME.
They should have been moving heaven and earth to find out who "Whiteman" was, due to the content of the interview as he was on the trail at the time at the murders.

The first photo of BG from LGs phone was released late in the day on 2/17/17 They said the photo came from a trail cam.
It was released saying they had talked to everyone on the trail that day, except for the man on the bridge calling him a potential witness asking him to come forward.
They knew he was the killer.
BG knew the photo was from LG's POV and not a trail cam.

It may have simply been someone remembering, Dan said some guy saw the girls walking. Hey Dan what was that guy's name who said he saw the girls walking? I don't know but I think he worked at CVS. They go to CVS, we don't have a Richard Whiteman working here but we have a Richard Allen. They look him up...Whiteman Dr.

 

[mrjitty]

Why are there questions now about this video and audio being from Libby's video? I don't understand?

according to the MS reporting, the Due Process discord has been pushing the conspiracy that the video and photo are sketch. this is part of a broader theory that the murders are drug related and the family is involved.

i never understood Baldwins examination of Todd Click about JM until MS explained what the background conspiracy is.

hope that helps.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I’m not sure. I only really heard a story about him not knowing how to dial a phone and I think that was a call to his wife? So I only heard of very general statements, nothing specific so I can’t say what he said.

I mostly recall her treatment of him as a patient, the medical diagnoses he received and the weekly involuntary IV medication haldol, so more the mental health program side of it.

So I guess if you’re the state and you want to put this witness up to get in these confessions, you have to believe that none of the jury will believe a psychologist classifying someone as psychotic and prescribing involuntary medication and then comes in all of the video of all of these events of psychopathy occurring so that the jury will see it all of it first hand.

So you gotta wonder, for the state, does the reward outweigh the risk?

Yes and I guess it works in reverse as well...if the DT wants to bring in him being psychotic and having forced haldol, they have to be ready for the full confession as well?

 

[grannygates]

Wait a minute--didn't you just make a comment about the many mistakes made by DD? Wrong name, wrong address, etc?
Are we know saying everything was done correctly?


ETA:
"Dan Dulin wrote down that Rick Whiteman said that he was at the trails between 130 and 330..."

"I was highlighting the known errors in his report as a suggestion of why the other information may not be reliable. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past so we don’t need to rehash again."

This is two different people. The civilian FBI entered the tip in the system, she didn’t write the tip. DD collected the info and wrote the tip.

The FBI confirmed that the tip was not misfiled and the clerk followed the correct protocol. I don’t consider DD putting the wrong surname on his report as “misfiling” by the FBI. It’s DD recording information inaccurately in his report.

This inaccurate recording of the surname then questions the accuracy of the rest of the information in the tip written by DD.
MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

The rumour that was started by the Murder Sheet was that an FBI agent misfiled the tip in the system which caused it to be lost for years. Somehow “finding” this tip “solved” this case.

A surname of a random person shouldn’t matter and isn’t misfiling. That would be an data entry error and not really affect the tip becoming “lost” within the system.

If there was a civilian tip, they would get RAs real name.

They also said they were combing over every tip. Why didn’t they “find” the tip then?

It’s all strange and unbelievable. MOO

They got tens of thousands of tips. Once you get that much information coming in, unless there is a very, very good management of that information, it collapses under its own weight and crucial information gets missed, not just once, but sometimes many times.

I mentioned the Yorkshire Ripper earlier with good reason. The system created for that investigation was literally destroying the building with the weight of paperwork (no, really, they had to reinforce the building to prevent a collapse). They had thousands of tips, tens of thousands of actions, and still, the victims kept being attacked and/or killed.

They interviewed Sutcliffe no fewer than nine times. None of those interviews led to his arrest, despite many, many things suggesting he was a strong suspect.

In the end, he was arrested by a suspicious uniform cop who found him parking with a sex worker and thought the situation was weird. Once he'd dropped Sutcliffe at the station, he returned to the location and found the weapons Sutcliffe had tried to hide.

The investigation in the first months of this case reeks of the same desperation as the Ripper investigation, but also, the same disorganisation. How often was it said that they had mumblety eleven tips, but they hadn't got the RIGHT one yet? I think a lot of things from early on got glanced at, filed, then they'd call for new tips. How often were those early tips pulled out and combed over? I suspect not as often as they ought to have been.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I meant prosecution, I don't know why I put defense. I'm curious to see if they are going to call her as a witness

Richard Allen confessed to her with details. Her's is one of the confessions the DT is trying to suppress.Yet they absolutely love her descrptions of RA's bad mental condition...well that is until she noticed that he was doing much better...and he still kept confessing.