Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[grannygates]

I think that's splitting hairs. If the surname was written down as Whiteman, it could be filed 'correctly', but also completely incorrectly because the information used to file it was wrong.

It's the FBI saying they did the correct procedure with the information they were given... which had a major error in it from the originator. Very much 'not our problem'ing the problem.

MOO

The rumour that was started by the Murder Sheet was that an FBI agent misfiled the tip in the system which caused it to be lost for years. Somehow “finding” this tip “solved” this case.

A surname of a random person shouldn’t matter and isn’t misfiling. That would be an data entry error and not really affect the tip becoming “lost” within the system.

If there was a civilian tip, they would get RAs real name.

They also said they were combing over every tip. Why didn’t they “find” the tip then?

It’s all strange and unbelievable. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I think our memories are good around the time something occurs, but months later they can start to fade somewhat so 6 years later things may alter a little.

RA may have not had a strong recollection of what was brought up in his initial interview as to why the inconsistencies in time.

Not trying to make excuses for him - he just may not have remembered everything that was said.

That's also why so many bad people finally get caught, inconsistencies. I look forward to see DD on the stand and hear about the interview first hand what he remembers. He may have even kept his original notes.

 

[grannygates]

Didn't he also give her a full confession of the murders? I thought that was the reason the State want her to be a trial witness. It would be especially damning for the defense if she was considered a close friend of their client and he confessed his crimes to her. He would not have felt intimidated but he would have felt comfortable enough to do so.

I’m not sure. I only really heard a story about him not knowing how to dial a phone and I think that was a call to his wife? So I only heard of very general statements, nothing specific so I can’t say what he said.

I mostly recall her treatment of him as a patient, the medical diagnoses he received and the weekly involuntary IV medication haldol, so more the mental health program side of it.

So I guess if you’re the state and you want to put this witness up to get in these confessions, you have to believe that none of the jury will believe a psychologist classifying someone as psychotic and prescribing involuntary medication and then comes in all of the video of all of these events of psychopathy occurring so that the jury will see it all of it first hand.

So you gotta wonder, for the state, does the reward outweigh the risk?

 

[sunshineray]

What I am seeing is that it was misfiled by NAME.
They should have been moving heaven and earth to find out who "Whiteman" was, due to the content of the interview as he was on the trail at the time at the murders.

The first photo of BG from LGs phone was released late in the day on 2/17/17 They said the photo came from a trail cam.
It was released saying they had talked to everyone on the trail that day, except for the man on the bridge calling him a potential witness asking him to come forward.
They knew he was the killer.
BG knew the photo was from LG's POV and not a trail cam.

It may have simply been someone remembering, Dan said some guy saw the girls walking. Hey Dan what was that guy's name who said he saw the girls walking? I don't know but I think he worked at CVS. They go to CVS, we don't have a Richard Whiteman working here but we have a Richard Allen. They look him up...Whiteman Dr.

 

[mrjitty]

Why are there questions now about this video and audio being from Libby's video? I don't understand?

according to the MS reporting, the Due Process discord has been pushing the conspiracy that the video and photo are sketch. this is part of a broader theory that the murders are drug related and the family is involved.

i never understood Baldwins examination of Todd Click about JM until MS explained what the background conspiracy is.

hope that helps.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I’m not sure. I only really heard a story about him not knowing how to dial a phone and I think that was a call to his wife? So I only heard of very general statements, nothing specific so I can’t say what he said.

I mostly recall her treatment of him as a patient, the medical diagnoses he received and the weekly involuntary IV medication haldol, so more the mental health program side of it.

So I guess if you’re the state and you want to put this witness up to get in these confessions, you have to believe that none of the jury will believe a psychologist classifying someone as psychotic and prescribing involuntary medication and then comes in all of the video of all of these events of psychopathy occurring so that the jury will see it all of it first hand.

So you gotta wonder, for the state, does the reward outweigh the risk?

Yes and I guess it works in reverse as well...if the DT wants to bring in him being psychotic and having forced haldol, they have to be ready for the full confession as well?

 

[grannygates]

Wait a minute--didn't you just make a comment about the many mistakes made by DD? Wrong name, wrong address, etc?
Are we know saying everything was done correctly?


ETA:
"Dan Dulin wrote down that Rick Whiteman said that he was at the trails between 130 and 330..."

"I was highlighting the known errors in his report as a suggestion of why the other information may not be reliable. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past so we don’t need to rehash again."

This is two different people. The civilian FBI entered the tip in the system, she didn’t write the tip. DD collected the info and wrote the tip.

The FBI confirmed that the tip was not misfiled and the clerk followed the correct protocol. I don’t consider DD putting the wrong surname on his report as “misfiling” by the FBI. It’s DD recording information inaccurately in his report.

This inaccurate recording of the surname then questions the accuracy of the rest of the information in the tip written by DD.
MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

The rumour that was started by the Murder Sheet was that an FBI agent misfiled the tip in the system which caused it to be lost for years. Somehow “finding” this tip “solved” this case.

A surname of a random person shouldn’t matter and isn’t misfiling. That would be an data entry error and not really affect the tip becoming “lost” within the system.

If there was a civilian tip, they would get RAs real name.

They also said they were combing over every tip. Why didn’t they “find” the tip then?

It’s all strange and unbelievable. MOO

They got tens of thousands of tips. Once you get that much information coming in, unless there is a very, very good management of that information, it collapses under its own weight and crucial information gets missed, not just once, but sometimes many times.

I mentioned the Yorkshire Ripper earlier with good reason. The system created for that investigation was literally destroying the building with the weight of paperwork (no, really, they had to reinforce the building to prevent a collapse). They had thousands of tips, tens of thousands of actions, and still, the victims kept being attacked and/or killed.

They interviewed Sutcliffe no fewer than nine times. None of those interviews led to his arrest, despite many, many things suggesting he was a strong suspect.

In the end, he was arrested by a suspicious uniform cop who found him parking with a sex worker and thought the situation was weird. Once he'd dropped Sutcliffe at the station, he returned to the location and found the weapons Sutcliffe had tried to hide.

The investigation in the first months of this case reeks of the same desperation as the Ripper investigation, but also, the same disorganisation. How often was it said that they had mumblety eleven tips, but they hadn't got the RIGHT one yet? I think a lot of things from early on got glanced at, filed, then they'd call for new tips. How often were those early tips pulled out and combed over? I suspect not as often as they ought to have been.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I meant prosecution, I don't know why I put defense. I'm curious to see if they are going to call her as a witness

Richard Allen confessed to her with details. Her's is one of the confessions the DT is trying to suppress.Yet they absolutely love her descrptions of RA's bad mental condition...well that is until she noticed that he was doing much better...and he still kept confessing.

 

[sunshineray]

I think she said on the stand that they were "friends" - so that in itself surely compromises her professionalism and what have you.

Am sure she will be challenged if it comes to that and shot down, not by a real gun, but by the Prosecution.

She was one person RA made a confession to so pretty sure the prosecutor wants her as a witness. MO

 

[sunshineray]

If she is a prosecution witness, why would they put her on the stand? It's a lose/lose for defense and prosecution to have her as a witness.

Because she also testified about RA's poor mental health.

 

[sunshineray]

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

The missfiling was not a rumor, it came from LE.

 

[MiniMoo]

She was one person RA made a confession to so pretty sure the prosecutor wants her as a witness. MO

Possibly - seems she followed it all from the beginning so there are things there that the Prosecutors can work with to discredit her for sure if they want to go that way.

If he confessed as much as he did and he is indeed the perpetrator - there seem to be other witnesses including recordings, if permissable.

The Psychologist isn't the only one.

 

[grannygates]

The missfiling was not a rumor, it came from LE.

Which LE ? The article is directly quoting the murder sheet people

‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case

DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…

fox59.com

 

[grannygates]

Yes and I guess it works in reverse as well...if the DT wants to bring in him being psychotic and having forced haldol, they have to be ready for the full confession as well?

Of course. They go hand-in-hand.

 

[sunshineray]

according to the MS reporting, the Due Process discord has been pushing the conspiracy that the video and photo are sketch. this is part of a broader theory that the murders are drug related and the family is involved.

i never understood Baldwins examination of Todd Click about JM until MS explained what the background conspiracy is.

hope that helps.

MOO

Thank you mrjitty for explaining that. What in the world!?? That Due Process Gang are just out of control and they're partly made up of lawyers!? What a sad bunch, going after the families now. All this for a man who wants to confess to the brutal murders of two young girls. How much more dastardly scheming by friends and co-workers of the DT are these families going to have to endure? It's hearbreaking </3 AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not sure. I only really heard a story about him not knowing how to dial a phone and I think that was a call to his wife? So I only heard of very general statements, nothing specific so I can’t say what he said.

I mostly recall her treatment of him as a patient, the medical diagnoses he received and the weekly involuntary IV medication haldol, so more the mental health program side of it.

So I guess if you’re the state and you want to put this witness up to get in these confessions, you have to believe that none of the jury will believe a psychologist classifying someone as psychotic and prescribing involuntary medication and then comes in all of the video of all of these events of psychopathy occurring so that the jury will see it all of it first hand.

So you gotta wonder, for the state, does the reward outweigh the risk?

He broke his tablet that he used to call out with. Nobody else had one of those, I believe the warden gave it to him special. He had to borrow a phone from Dr. W. Being that it was inside a prison, there was probably a special way to connect to an outside line. It wasn't due to RA's mental deficiency. MO

 

[snarast]

They got tens of thousands of tips. Once you get that much information coming in, unless there is a very, very good management of that information, it collapses under its own weight and crucial information gets missed, not just once, but sometimes many times.

I mentioned the Yorkshire Ripper earlier with good reason. The system created for that investigation was literally destroying the building with the weight of paperwork (no, really, they had to reinforce the building to prevent a collapse). They had thousands of tips, tens of thousands of actions, and still, the victims kept being attacked and/or killed.

They interviewed Sutcliffe no fewer than nine times. None of those interviews led to his arrest, despite many, many things suggesting he was a strong suspect.

In the end, he was arrested by a suspicious uniform cop who found him parking with a sex worker and thought the situation was weird. Once he'd dropped Sutcliffe at the station, he returned to the location and found the weapons Sutcliffe had tried to hide.

The investigation in the first months of this case reeks of the same desperation as the Ripper investigation, but also, the same disorganisation. How often was it said that they had mumblety eleven tips, but they hadn't got the RIGHT one yet? I think a lot of things from early on got glanced at, filed, then they'd call for new tips. How often were those early tips pulled out and combed over? I suspect not as often as they ought to have been.

MOO

It would be shocking if they used the same methods to document and analyze cases now as in the 70s.

I would have thought ppl positioning themselves on the bridge during that afternoon would be among the most pertinent tips. Could there have been more than even 100 names to investigate?

Honestly, taking those names with regular expressions against the population of Delphi would have solved that with some data processing. I mean, I hope the population dataset is information readily available to LE?

 

[katydid23]

It would be shocking if they used the same methods to document and analyze cases now as in the 70s.

I would have thought ppl positioning themselves on the bridge during that afternoon would be among the most pertinent tips. Could there have been more than even 100 of those to investigate?

Honestly, taking those names with regular expressions against the population of Delphi would have solved that. I mean, I hope that is information readily available to LE?

I think it is important to remember that RA did not go talk to any of the investigators or police officers. He met very informally with a fish and game warden---a conservation officer. That guy was not front and center on the case. That was intentional on RA's part, imo.

The conservation officer just jotted down his notes and it seems like he saw this as a local who came forward to help but he didn't really see anything so whatever...

If it had been one of the police officers or investigators the interview would have been more in-depth, once he said he was on the bridge that afternoon. IMO

 

[snarast]

I think it is important to remember that RA did not go talk to any of the investigators or police officers. He met very informally with a fish and game warden---a conservation officer. That guy was not front and center on the case. That was intentional on RA's part, imo.

The conservation officer just jotted down his notes and it seems like he saw this as a local who came forward to help but he didn't really see anything so whatever...

If it had been one of the police officers or investigators the interview would have been more in-depth, once he said he was on the bridge that afternoon. IMO

I guess you can’t underestimate the importance of data collection.

Did you get info from a local or a junkie or a sex worker? It’s still data - just log it.

And the notion that he didn’t see anything. He was there. That is highly relevant information by any standard.

In fact, the population density in the immediate area is crucial in order to understand anything about the case.