Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[photographer4]

They have video. I don't understand why you think the man approaching on video, on the bridge isn't the speaker of G, DTH?

As he's approaching Abby says (paraphrasing) Can't we keep going? and Libby answers, The trail ends. He gets close enough to the girls that Abby says (paraphrasing), Is that a gun? He has a gun. Then the man says, "Guys" Libby mutters, Umm. The next thing you hear is same guy voice, "Down the hill".

How is that NOT the same man that was just videoed crossing the bridge towards them? I don't see how that's in question?

is it possible that they were met at the END of the bridge by someone who isn’t RA? We see he approached the kids in his walk toward them from the opposite side, but could that have been someone who might have been originally at the side they were ending up at and then he doubled back so he was no behind them? If RA was at the end where they were dropped off - IFFFFFF he did leave as he says he did (which the D will surely be pushing, though I have no idea how they’ll try to prove this!!)… is this an avenue the D might then try to push - SODDI did it. The SOD was already at the end of the bridge, went out, doubled back and it went down that way - RA wasn’t the guy….??

Just trying to see ways the D might try to dissuade a jury from thinking RA is the guy BARD.

 

[iamshadow21]

Would that not make her a conflict of interest and an unreliable witness? Couldn't the defense attorneys tear into her and say she went into this already bias towards him?

It'd be the prosecution ripping into her, but yes, I think she wouldn't look good if that was allowed to be asked about in front of the jury.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

I hope BH and company file against the D team for dragging these innocent men into a double murder case.
Blasting their names when LE already investigated them and cleared them is definitely defamation of character and all other kinds of character/personal damage to them and their families.

When would we expect them to do so if they were going to do so? I remember reading that one of them was planning to or had (?) consulted a lawyer about it then didn’t hear anything further - has there been some progress in this regard - does anyone know? MOOOOO because I cannot find the link about him consulting a lawyer…. Does anyone have it handy??? Why are links never around and easy to find a year later?? UGH.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

It'd be the prosecution ripping into her, but yes, I think she wouldn't look good if that was allowed to be asked about in front of the jury.

MOO

I meant prosecution, I don't know why I put defense. I'm curious to see if they are going to call her as a witness

 

[MiniMoo]

I meant prosecution, I don't know why I put defense. I'm curious to see if they are going to call her as a witness

It'd be the prosecution ripping into her, but yes, I think she wouldn't look good if that was allowed to be asked about in front of the jury.

MOO

I think she said on the stand that they were "friends" - so that in itself surely compromises her professionalism and what have you.

Am sure she will be challenged if it comes to that and shot down, not by a real gun, but by the Prosecution.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

I think she said on the stand that they were "friends" - so that in itself surely compromises her professionalism and what have you.

Am sure she will be challenged if it comes to that and shot down, not by a real gun, but by the Prosecution.

I'm sure she will be too. I would think that her own admission of them being "friends", will make the defense do everything they can to keep her from testifying. I can only imagine what she truly knows if she was comfortable enough with him to use that to describe their relationship instead of her saying he was a patient.

 

[photographer4]

We don’t have to guess. It’s clearly explained in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023
Begins on page 123 and description of video of page 124

Libby is video taping Abby walking on the MHB and RA is seen approaching Abby from behind. One of girls says “Gun” and then the man is seen and heard directing the girls down the hill.
The video ends shortly after.
Page 128 states that on the video you can hear the gun being cycled.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

I wonder how much he was “seen”!? Watch them drop a full face shot of him at the trial. lol. That would be amazing!

 

[grannygates]

I agree that there’s professional conflict there but I’m wondering..

if the prison psychologist is the prosecutions witness, why would the prosecution want to stop her from testifying or rip into her? She’s the states witness.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

I agree that there’s professional conflict there but I’m wondering..

if the prison psychologist is the prosecutions witness, why would the prosecution want to stop her from testifying or rip into her? She’s the states witness.

If she is a prosecution witness, why would they put her on the stand? It's a lose/lose for defense and prosecution to have her as a witness.

 

[sunshineray]

I was highlighting the known errors in his report as a suggestion of why the other information may not be reliable. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past so we don’t need to rehash again.

I think DD will have no problem answering these two questions on the stand.

Q: Do you see the man that you interviewed outside the CVS on this date in the courtroom today?
A: Yes sir
Q: Can you please point him out for the record?
A: That's him sitting right there.

As far as his report. We don't know yet how the error happened. Was it transposed into the computer system incorrectly? We will know in October. Or maybe sooner, if there are more pretrial hearings.
AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

What ever are you talking about here?

It's a joke

 

[sunshineray]

is it possible that they were met at the END of the bridge by someone who isn’t RA? We see he approached the kids in his walk toward them from the opposite side, but could that have been someone who might have been originally at the side they were ending up at and then he doubled back so he was no behind them? If RA was at the end where they were dropped off - IFFFFFF he did leave as he says he did (which the D will surely be pushing, though I have no idea how they’ll try to prove this!!)… is this an avenue the D might then try to push - SODDI did it. The SOD was already at the end of the bridge, went out, doubled back and it went down that way - RA wasn’t the guy….??

Just trying to see ways the D might try to dissuade a jury from thinking RA is the guy BARD.

No I don't think so. According to Anna, Abby's Mom, in that interview I posted, the girls were discussing getting away from the approaching man in that direction but it was private property. Sweet things </3 Abby said something like (paraphrasing) can we go that way? And Libby answered something like (paraphrasing) No the trail ends there, that's private property. They were too young to see the real danger and just hightail it through wherever they had to to get away. </3 MO

 

[katydid23]

is it possible that they were met at the END of the bridge by someone who isn’t RA? We see he approached the kids in his walk toward them from the opposite side, but could that have been someone who might have been originally at the side they were ending up at and then he doubled back so he was no behind them? If RA was at the end where they were dropped off - IFFFFFF he did leave as he says he did (which the D will surely be pushing, though I have no idea how they’ll try to prove this!!)… is this an avenue the D might then try to push - SODDI did it. The SOD was already at the end of the bridge, went out, doubled back and it went down that way - RA wasn’t the guy….??

Just trying to see ways the D might try to dissuade a jury from thinking RA is the guy BARD.

I don't think your scenario is possible because of the timing on the video clip. We SEE BG right there, walking up to the girls, and you hear them talking about him being right behind Abby, and then very quickly a man says Guys, Down the Hill... There is no time for it to be someone else besides BG. IMO

But IF someone else had suddenly appeared, would they have dared try to kidnap the girls with BG standing right there? Why didn't BG say anything if that was supposedly some other guy with a gun?

Why didn't BG ever say anything if he witnessed the kidnapping?

 

[katydid23]

I wonder how much he was “seen”!? Watch them drop a full face shot of him at the trial. lol. That would be amazing!

If they had a full face shot of him they'd have shown it to the public from day one, IMO

 

[grannygates]

If she is a prosecution witness, why would they put her on the stand? It's a lose/lose for defense and prosecution to have her as a witness.

She’s one of the witnesses the state called from the prison to testify to the circumstances at the prison during the time period surrounding his confessions. The state already knew about her personal interest in the case and they still kept her in her position and called her to testify. This isn’t anything new lol

The doctor has record of detailed patient notes surrounding RAs condition over the time period of the confessions so it gives a lot of expert insight and opinion into those behaviours.

She’s a state witness so it is interesting if the state no longer calls her and she then becomes beneficial to the defense.

I have the impression that if her testimony aligned with the state, her personal interests would be minimized and far fewer people would think she shouldn’t testify.

I think that, just like at this hearing, everyone should be made aware that she had a personal interest in this case prior to the arrest so they can consider this when she gives her expert opinion and decide for themselves if she seems biased in her patient care. Unfortunately she was the primary care provider for the entire time he was in solitary confinement so she is an incredibly important witness. There’s not really any rehiring anyone at this point.

All MOO

 

[grannygates]

But if it was misfiled from the beginning, it would be invisible to the investigation. Garbage in, garbage out.

MOO

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

 

[katydid23]

She’s one of the witnesses the state called from the prison to testify to the circumstances at the prison during the time period surrounding his confessions. The state already knew about her personal interest in the case and they still kept her in her position and called her to testify. This isn’t anything new lol

The doctor has record of detailed patient notes surrounding RAs condition over the time period of the confessions so it gives a lot of expert insight and opinion into those behaviours.

She’s a state witness so it is interesting if the state no longer calls her and she then becomes beneficial to the defense.

I have the impression that if her testimony aligned with the state, her personal interests would be minimized and far fewer people would think she shouldn’t testify.

I think that, just like at this hearing, everyone should be made aware that she had a personal interest in this case prior to the arrest so they can consider this when she gives her expert opinion and decide for themselves if she seems biased in her patient care. Unfortunately she was the primary care provider for the entire time he was in solitary confinement so she is an incredibly important witness. There’s not really any rehiring anyone at this point.

All MOO

Didn't he also give her a full confession of the murders? I thought that was the reason the State want her to be a trial witness. It would be especially damning for the defense if she was considered a close friend of their client and he confessed his crimes to her. He would not have felt intimidated but he would have felt comfortable enough to do so.

 

[katydid23]

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

Wait a minute--didn't you just make a comment about the many mistakes made by DD? Wrong name, wrong address, etc?
Are we know saying everything was done correctly?


ETA:
"Dan Dulin wrote down that Rick Whiteman said that he was at the trails between 130 and 330..."

"I was highlighting the known errors in his report as a suggestion of why the other information may not be reliable. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past so we don’t need to rehash again."

 

[photographer4]

If they had a full face shot of him they'd have shown it to the public from day one, IMO

I agree. But I do wonder if they have something identifiable in terms of clothing (eg : a button missing or a broken zipper).

 

[iamshadow21]

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

I think that's splitting hairs. If the surname was written down as Whiteman, it could be filed 'correctly', but also completely incorrectly because the information used to file it was wrong.

It's the FBI saying they did the correct procedure with the information they were given... which had a major error in it from the originator. Very much 'not our problem'ing the problem.

MOO