Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[grannygates]

Does it not matter that RA changed his time story?

It seems strange to me that a self-declared innocent man would need to change anything he had previously told LE, right after the murders...and doing it six years later too, that's very odd.

Do you think maybe it was his lawyers that told him he needed to change his reported arrival time at the trails to his departure time? Or did he think of that himself?

And if he agknowledged seeing the group of girls when he did, as he was walking towards the Monon High Bridge, was he mistaken about that too? Was he really walking in the same direction they were, leaving?

If it turns out his phone doesn't show up on the tower data, was he just mistaken about walking and watching his stock ticker and need to change that info?

Just some thoughts

There’s no actual video/audio evidence of his original story so I don’t know if it changed. I don’t take anyones word as fact.

If they had the cell data, it would say where he was all day long, or if he did something sketchy like left his phone at home for 9 hours straight untouched, that tells you something too.

Phone data has become pretty basic and expected evidence in these cases so I don’t get why it wouldn’t be introduced to bolster the states argument. Why rely on contradictory eyewitness accounts when they could just use phone data. It’s just so simple to me. It makes me suspicious.

MOO

 

[Willow Knight]

There is no underlying kidnapping charge because of the statute of limitations, so there are felony murder charges but no actual felony attached to it? I don’t understand what they have to prove now.

And then the other murder charges were under the accomplice statute but now the state says there’s no accomplice?

It’s incredibly confusing to try to make sense of the way this is charged. MOO

Wow. Been down with covid and trying to catch up. I truly missed this, was it at the hearing where the state said there was no accomplice? I was still holding on the the possibility CSAM ring was involved. Shocker for me.

 

[grannygates]

Wow. Been down with covid and trying to catch up. I truly missed this, was it at the hearing where the state said there was no accomplice? I was still holding on the the possibility CSAM ring was involved. Shocker for me.

I think that they’re sticking to a lone wolf theory for now. I thought they sealed the PCA because of potential accomplices but NM now says it’s just RA alone. I could be wrong about it and things can change !

 

[ClearAhead]

There’s no actual video/audio evidence of his original story so I don’t know if it changed. I don’t take anyones word as fact.

If they had the cell data, it would say where he was all day long, or if he did something sketchy like left his phone at home for 9 hours straight untouched, that tells you something too.

Phone data has become pretty basic and expected evidence in these cases so I don’t get why it wouldn’t be introduced to bolster the states argument. Why rely on contradictory eyewitness accounts when they could just use phone data. It’s just so simple to me. It makes me suspicious.

MOO

Of the various motions heard during the recent hearings, I can’t think of any that related to the time RA said he was or wasn’t at the trails. When was the missed opportunity for the state to have bolstered their case? I would anticipate evidence regarding the timeline will be heard during the actual trial.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Of the various motions heard during the recent hearings, I can’t think of any that related to the time RA said he was or wasn’t at the trails. When was the missed opportunity for the state to have bolstered their case? I would anticipate evidence regarding the timeline will be heard during the actual trial.

MOO

The PCA would be my first choice.

 

[ClearAhead]

There is no underlying kidnapping charge because of the statute of limitations, so there are felony murder charges but no actual felony attached to it? I don’t understand what they have to prove now.

And then the other murder charges were under the accomplice statute but now the state says there’s no accomplice?

It’s incredibly confusing to try to make sense of the way this is charged. MOO

So RA faces two counts of what some might refer to capital murder and two counts of felony murder. But what I don’t know, is it possible for a defendant to be convicted of four murder charges involving two victims?

Judge approves new murder charges against man in case of slain Indiana teens

A judge has approved two new murder counts against an Indiana man charged in the killings of two teenage girls but rejected a prosecutor’s bid to add kidnapping charges.

apnews.com

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — A judge approved two new murder counts Monday against an Indiana man charged in the killings of two teenage girls but rejected a prosecutor’s bid to add kidnapping charges.

Special Judge Fran Gull approved the two counts in addition to two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping that Richard Allen of Delphi already faced….

…Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said when he filed the amended charges in January that it “more accurately aligns the charging information with the cause’s discovery and probable cause affidavit.”…”

 

[ClearAhead]

The PCA would be my first choice.

Cellphone analysis is not instant. Perhaps it wasn’t available when LE was ready to arrest RA.

Notice the D is silent on the topic as well. It wasn’t even brought up during the arguments to supress the confessions …aka can’t genuinely confess to events he wasn’t present at because the murders occurred after he was long gone. MOO

 

[katydid23]

Did the murder sheet explain what they believe the legal requirements are to enter this type of defense and why the defense didn’t meet that burden?

https://law.indiana.edu/instruction/tanford/b723/04relev/T04.pdf

11. Evidence That Someone Else Committed the Crime.

(A) In general. The defendant in a criminal case may offer evidence that a third-party
committed the crime for which he is charged. Such evidence is relevant because it tends to reduce the likelihood that the defendant committed the act. Defense evidence, like the state's evidence, need only meet the basic test of relevancy -- whether it has “any tendency” to prove or disprove an issue. Although the evidence must show some direct connection between the third person and the crime, there is no enhanced relevancy standard requiring the evidence to be particularly strong, nor is there a relaxed standard favoring the defense.
(B) Motive. Evidence that a third party had a motive to commit the crime, standing alone, is too speculative to be admissible. There must be some other evidence connecting that third party with the crime.


Rule 403. Excluding Relevant Evidence for Prejudice, Confusion, or Other Reasons

The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of one or more of the following: unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence.

 

[katydid23]

If they’ve spun the heads of people who follow this enough that we’re all discussing it as we are still… then they can’t be as as bad at their jobs as MS would have people believe. If they can spin the internet into a frenzy of reasonable doubt, I imagine they’ll whip the jury into a state of difficult deliberations as well.

NO, because the jury will be protected from their nonsense. Just because they can send out their minions to spread rumours about Libby's video being phoney or tainted, or the narrative about Odinist guards threatening to kill RA's family unless he confessed even though RA was under 24/7 watch by video/audio cams, or the girls being hung upside down and blood drained from them, does not mean that the jury will be flooded with such bogus testimony. IMO

 

[photographer4]

^BBM
Far from the truth. Were you aware of all of the others investigated over the course of five years? DM lists SIX that were well-known in MSM. There were others not brought to MSM.

PICTURED: Man, 50, who was arrested in connection with Delphi murders

The suspect, 50-year-old Richard Allen, was booked in Indiana around midnight Friday - though it remains unclear what exactly he has been charged with.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I do know there were others investigated yes. But I still want the State to present one super strong case against RA to get that BARD conviction.

 

[katydid23]

There is no underlying kidnapping charge because of the statute of limitations, so there are felony murder charges but no actual felony attached to it? I don’t understand what they have to prove now.

And then the other murder charges were under the accomplice statute but now the state says there’s no accomplice?

It’s incredibly confusing to try to make sense of the way this is charged. MOO

I'm sure it will be spelled out very well at the start of the trial.

I don't think the statute of limitations nullifies the Felony Murder charges. It just means he cannot be given a sentence for that crime anymore. But he can still be proven to have walked the girls down the hill to the crime scene.

 

[grannygates]

Cellphone analysis is not instant. Perhaps it wasn’t available when LE was ready to arrest RA.

Notice the D is silent on the topic as well. It wasn’t even brought up during the arguments to supress the confessions …aka can’t genuinely confess to events he wasn’t present at because the murders occurred after he was long gone. MOO

They should know where the guys cell phone says that he was that day, before they arrest him for a freakin double homicide.

The phone data has nothing to do with the confessions. The argument was the solitary confinement conditions.

I personally think that it might be inconclusive or perhaps is slightly off in accuracy like we saw with KK and that’s why it’s not really being acknowledged. I’ve already put forth my theory as to why the state is arguing the inaccuracy of all other mobile forensic data. It’ll be interesting to see what that all means in the end.

 

[photographer4]

Nothing about this case resembles tunnel vision IMO which often involves questioning witnesses or manipulating evidence in such a way to point directly toward the accused.

The statements from the witnesses in this case and crime scene evidence was all in hand long before RA was arrested and charged.

LE had said long before RA’s arrest the only missing piece of the puzzle remaining in this case was learning the identity of the killer. That suggests all the other details of the crime including the timeline were known.

MOO

By chance, do we as a group happen to know if LE made that remark before or after they added the second sketch to the mix and initially said it was a diff person / the same person / some combination of people? I don’t have the link handy but we have discussed it before so hopefully this is ok. It just seems like that had a lot of info except who they needed and I’m still not quite clear how they arrived at RA (aside the convo he had with DD at the beginning). Wonder if he’d be ok if he had never done that? Such a twisty sad case.

 

[katydid23]

I do know there were others investigated yes. But I still want the State to present one super strong case against RA to get that BARD conviction.

And I bet they will. They have handed over a tremendous amount of Discovery and have a long list of material, forensic and expert witnesses ready to testify. Plus the eye witnesses. And the power points and exhibits.

 

[photographer4]

I’d probably also relate to Karen Read, in the sense that in that case, they did quite a bit of working backwards to try to force the “evidence” to fit the their accused. MOO

Zero understanding of that case as it’s not one I’ve followed or even heard about outside of this thread.

 

[katydid23]

They should know where the guys cell phone says that he was that day, before they arrest him for a freakin double homicide.

The phone data has nothing to do with the confessions. The argument was the solitary confinement conditions.

I personally think that it might be inconclusive or perhaps is slightly off in accuracy like we saw with KK and that’s why it’s not really being acknowledged. I’ve already put forth my theory as to why the state is arguing the inaccuracy of all other digital forensic data. It’ll be interesting to see what that all means in the end.

Maybe he left his cell phone at home that day?

 

[photographer4]

And with details that only the murderer would know.

That he wasn’t fed directly or indirectly by LE (crime scene convo / questioning that gave him ideas about what happened / crime scene photos etc etc etc). That he didn’t figure out from reading his own disclosure… etc etc etc…. To be fair, the State doesn’t have to prove these things didn’t happen but the D will probably want them to show that it didn’t / couldn’t have happened that RA got the details from these means….

 

[sunshineray]

There’s no actual video/audio evidence of his original story so I don’t know if it changed. I don’t take anyones word as fact.

If they had the cell data, it would say where he was all day long, or if he did something sketchy like left his phone at home for 9 hours straight untouched, that tells you something too.

Phone data has become pretty basic and expected evidence in these cases so I don’t get why it wouldn’t be introduced to bolster the states argument. Why rely on contradictory eyewitness accounts when they could just use phone data. It’s just so simple to me. It makes me suspicious.

MOO

There's evidence, written evidence included in the PCA and swore to in front of a judge. That's valuable evidence. Do you think every interview a cop does outside the stationhouse is recorded? When police canvas a neighborhood they don't video record every person, they write stuff down. Body cams are becoming more common for LE but not all use them. My town is around 50,000 and our local LE doesn't use body cams yet. So is everything said and written down by a cop now unworthy of being called evidence? I don't think so, MO

LE and the Prosecution are under a gag order. We'll find out about phone data in details at trial...or possible at more pretrial hearings, if they occur.

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe he left his cell phone at home that day?

And maybe there's an unaccounted for burner phone in the data?

 

[katydid23]

I don't know - have they been able to prove that BG was at the top of the bridge and followed the kids to the other side before abducting them? Or is it possible they got to the other side, were passed by someone and then that someone doubled back on them???

That does not make sense, imo. We see BG RIGHT THERE with the girls. And seconds later the audio picks up the voice ordering the 'down the hill' at gunpoint.

Would another random guy walk up to two girls and a grown man and try to kidnap the girls? We see that BG had a gun on him under his jacket---why wouldn't he pull a gun to protect himself if a guy tried to kidnap them?

If BG was able to escape the random gunman, why didnt he report the incident?