Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[grannygates]

Are you talking the 12 page Odin report or the Frank's motion?

The Odin Report that Murphy and Click compiled, which is quoted and cited in Franks and can be confirmed by us through the court transcripts as they both testified in hearings. MOO

 

[justtrish]

I am wondering if the cellphone data for RA says he was elsewhere or was inconclusive and that is why the prosecution isn’t using it and also why the prosecution is planting this (unsubstantiated) argument early about the unreliability of GPS, ping and cell data, which contradicts the actual experts and their reports. MOO

I feel pretty certain if RA's phone put him elsewhere then the defense would have been all over that. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't be writing that in one of their memos because that could really give him an alibi and if they have his phone data showing he was at the trail as he said he was watching his stock tracker and then was elsewhere during the time the state thinks the murders happened, WHY would the defense sit on that when it could get their client out?

 

[steeltowngirl]

The prosecution has not made any reference to RAs cell data to prove where RA was that day.

To be clear - you are alleging prosecution may have RA’s cell phone data, haven’t released it into evidence (and therefore not into discovery) and that it may show RA was elsewhere. And that prosecution may be sitting on it, as it is clearly exculpatory.

jmo - but the only way I can interpret what you are telling me.

 

[grannygates]

To be clear - you are alleging prosecution may have RA’s cell phone data, haven’t released it into evidence (and therefore not into discovery) and that it may show RA was elsewhere. And that prosecution may be sitting on it, as it is clearly exculpatory.

jmo - but the only way I can interpret what you are telling me.

No? I haven’t said any of that? I’ve done my best to try to explain in plain language, Im not sure how else I can to word it so you will understand. Sorry !

 

[photographer4]

So you are straight up alleging that prosecution knows RA wasn’t at the bridge, cannot be the killer, but they are proceeding with prosecuting him?

That doesn’t make sense of course given that RA put himself at the bridge. I can see why LE thinks he COULD be the killer. I don’t think they could go with RA as the killer if they didn’t believe they had a chance at a conviction here. I also think they’d have waited and got more evidence before charging if they weren’t confident of a conviction. I’d like to ask - does the Prosecution have to approve their case before they charge someone? Not from there, not sure how it works…

 

[photographer4]

The prosecution has not made any reference to RAs cell data to prove where RA was that day.

This makes me think they don’t want to bring up RA’s cell data bc it is not conducive to their theory that RA and his device were at the murder scene during the time of the crimes. Otherwise, why exclude it? Is it possible we just haven’t heard that evidence as of yet and should expect it at trial?

 

[grannygates]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Okay I can try again. I am wondering if the phone data that was collected was either inconclusive or puts the phone at another location and that is the reason why the prosecution is saying that ping/GPS is unreliable.

 

[grannygates]

This makes me think they don’t want to bring up RA’s cell data bc it is not conducive to their theory that RA and his device were at the murder scene during the time of the crimes. Otherwise, why exclude it? Is it possible we just haven’t heard that evidence as of yet and should expect it at trial?

This is what I’m wondering too! I’m so curious why this cell data isn’t included as part of the prosecutions case at this point.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I think that’s why prosecution is hammering on how inaccurate and unreliable the ping/geofence/cellphone data is. There might be cell data that says RA was miles away and the prosecution wants to find a way to make this not viable. Otherwise… where’s the cell data? MOO

So you think the geofence area includes RA’s residence? Why would that be?
They had no idea RA was the perpetrator in 2017. The geofence area would be the area around the where the girls were video taped being abducted and the final crime scene IMO.

My opinion is there is no cell phone evidence of any kind (geofencing, pinging, cellobrite, gps) that is exculpatory or exonerating for RA. If there were it would have been introduced in Frank’s number 1.

It is also my opinion that there no cellphone data of any kind that supports that any of the individuals named as Odinists in any of the Franks memos were near the crime scene during those 5 hours of geofencing the defense keeps referencing.

All my opinion

 

[steeltowngirl]

Okay I can try again. I am wondering if the phone data that was collected was either inconclusive or puts the phone at another location and that is the reason why the prosecution is saying that ping/GPS is unreliable.

That makes more sense. Thank you. Either way, I do not believe we have heard that they have any phone data for RA.

If the data were available at all, it will be in evidence. If it puts him elsewhere, defense would clearly be telling us.

jmo

 

[Ravenmoon]

Okay I can try again. I am wondering if the phone data that was collected was either inconclusive or puts the phone at another location and that is the reason why the prosecution is saying that ping/GPS is unreliable.

It was my impression that this was more about the people that were alleged to have been in the area "during the time of the murders".
Isn't the argument saying that it can't be proven that anyone was at the crime scene with the information that the D are trying to bring in?

 

[grannygates]

So you think the geofence area includes RA’s residence? Why would that be?
They had no idea RA was the perpetrator in 2017. The geofence area would be the area around the where the girls were video taped being abducted and the final crime scene IMO.

My opinion is there is no cell phone evidence of any kind (geofencing, pinging, cellobrite, gps) that is exculpatory or exonerating for RA. If there were it would have been introduced in Frank’s number 1.

It is also my opinion that there no cellphone data of any kind that supports that any of the individuals named as Odinists in any of the Franks memos were near the crime scene during those 5 hours of geofencing the defense keeps referencing.

All my opinion

From what I’ve been able to read online,geofencing can be mapped now that would include data from 10 years ago. They already know the owner of the phone so they can use more traditional methods of finding the location of that phone. A geofence of his house wouldn’t be necessary.

Based this most recent hearing, the defense appears to have found at least some of the “missing” parts of the geofencing reports such as the list of names that was originally provided by the FBI in 2017, the remainder FBIs report and info about an additional 2019 geofence map, so there defense has a lot more info now than was detailed in the Franks.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

RA places himself on the bridge so if his phone data doesn’t support what he claims then that’s on him. By his own admission he was on his phone so then the data should support his claims or he is lying.

IMO

 

[photographer4]

So you think the geofence area includes RA’s residence? Why would that be?
They had no idea RA was the perpetrator in 2017. The geofence area would be the area around the where the girls were video taped being abducted and the final crime scene IMO.

My opinion is there is no cell phone evidence of any kind (geofencing, pinging, cellobrite, gps) that is exculpatory or exonerating for RA. If there were it would have been introduced in Frank’s number 1.

It is also my opinion that there no cellphone data of any kind that supports that any of the individuals named as Odinists in any of the Franks memos were near the crime scene during those 5 hours of geofencing the defense keeps referencing.

All my opinion

If the state had cell evidence that was part of their proof that RA was killer - / supports that he was there when the killings etc happened, would they not be keen to make this known at this point? Or are we expecting them to drop this at trial maybe?

 

[tlcya]

Okay I can try again. I am wondering if the phone data that was collected was either inconclusive or puts the phone at another location and that is the reason why the prosecution is saying that ping/GPS is unreliable.

but if, as you suggest, the phone data puts RA elsewhere, that insinuates prosecution is hiding possibly exculpatory evidence because it shows RA being elsewhere at the time of the murders does it not?

 

[Inthedetails]

That doesn’t make sense of course given that RA put himself at the bridge. I can see why LE thinks he COULD be the killer. I don’t think they could go with RA as the killer if they didn’t believe they had a chance at a conviction here. I also think they’d have waited and got more evidence before charging if they weren’t confident of a conviction. I’d like to ask - does the Prosecution have to approve their case before they charge someone? Not from there, not sure how it works…

Prosecutors have the role of deciding what cases are brought to trial.

They don't bring cases where they are simply confident of conviction. They bring cases where they are confident of conviction of the person who committed the crime.

jmo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It was my impression that this was more about the people that were alleged to have been in the area "during the time of the murders".
Isn't the argument saying that it can't be proven that anyone was at the crime scene with the information that the D are trying to bring in?

Yes the hearing was narrow in scope. If it was RA’s phone that showed up on the geofencing and supported prosecutions narrative then defense would be arguing about the how unreliable it is IMO. And I guess he would have been arrested long before 2022.
If defense had evidence that RA’s phone was elsewhere being used and manipulated by him during the abduction and murders we would have had it hammered out many times.
Unfortunately I believe his phone was turned off or left at home or in his car and was inactive. Which is why we have not heard any of his phone activity brought up yet IMO
Prosecution is saving it for trial and defense knows it’s damning.
All my opinion.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think it's an issue of verb tense.

He was in fact the warden when RA was there. "Is" would have made for an awkard sentence. IMO he was -- and remains -- the warden.

JMO

That (kind of) sounds reasonable except four independent sources used the word "former":
1.
During testimony, former Westville warden John Galipeau acknowledged

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Author: Bob Segall, Emily Longnecker
Published: 4:18 AM EDT August 1, 2024
2.
Those statements are then given to facility staff, according to former Westville Correctional Facility Warden John Galipeau, who testified Wednesday.
During Galipeau’s testimony, the former warden said

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Kim Dunlap , Kokomo Tribune, Ind.
Wed, July 31, 2024 at 11:59 PM EDT
3.
Former Westville warden’s testimony
The defense said the overall psychological environment at Westville Correctional Facility led Allen to say things he otherwise wouldn’t have.
John Galipeau, who was warden at Westville when Allen was there

https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/delphi-murders-case-attorneys-argue-where-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

by: Alyssa Ivanson, Lydia Reuille, Clayton McMahan
Posted: Jul 30, 2024 / 02:11 PM EDT
4.
Allen confessed '60-plus' times to Delphi murders. Defense ...
Dave Bangert
Based in Lafayette, Indiana | Dave Bangert | Substack › isp-detective-allen-c...
4 days ago — On Wednesday, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville, said the ... Galipeau testified that the unit was selected because of Allen's safekeeping ...

ISP detective: Allen confessed ’60-plus’ times to Delphi murders. Defense looks to toss it all

An effort to suppress those confessions was key Wednesday, the second of three days devoted to pretrial questions in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German

www.basedinlafayette.com

 

[susiQ]

If the state had cell evidence that was part of their proof that RA was killer - / supports that he was there when the killings etc happened, would they not be keen to make this known at this point? Or are we expecting them to drop this at trial maybe?

If evidence existed that unequivocally placed RA at the CS during the time in question, would the P not have presented this in discovery to the D and would R&B not have worked toward a plea bargain to save the expense of a trial and all the slandering they have endured trying to defend RA? One would think, that if they believed the “confessions” were factual, and RA wanted to plead guilty, they would have respected his decision as attorneys should? I believe the answer lies in them not believing he is guilty, believing the so-called confessions were “planted” in his broken mind and that the State cannot meet the threshold of BARD. JMHO

 

[SpanishInquisition]

RA places himself on the bridge so if his phone data doesn’t support what he claims then that’s on him. By his own admission he was on his phone so then the data should support his claims or he is lying.

IMO

If phone data doesn't support that, that's on the prosecution. It's like he could have confessed to shooting the girls, which if they weren't shot, that's on the prosecution. People do make false statements intentionally or accidentally, give false confessions, etc. Someone can say "That was me!" and that doesn't just settle it. If the phone data doesn't support him being on there, that then raises a number of issues. I don't exactly think he's innocent, but like others could be involved and you want to be sure you get all the murderers. He for instance could be guilty of felony murder but not murder itself with the phone data calling into question that he committed the actual murders, so he could get off because the prosecution's case was incorrect...there could have been a child molestor conspiracy with him a part of it where his defense is able to convince a jury there was a murder conspiracy so he gets off that way.