Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[StarryStarryNight]

I would imagine that the multiple pieces of clothing, boots and carpet from RA’s Ford would be examined thoroughly for forensic evidence.
Just my opinion.
Isn’t part of the evidence of the Gilgo Beach Murder is a hair from an occupant of RH’s home?
Which leads me to another question. Is search of one’s trash require a search warrant? Or is it property of the city once collected?

If it’s on the street, it’s fair game.

 

[Megnut]

LE may have obtained other search warrants, particularly if they had to dig.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I would imagine that the multiple pieces of clothing, boots and carpet from RA’s Ford would be examined thoroughly for forensic evidence.
Just my opinion.
Isn’t part of the evidence of the Gilgo Beach Murder is a hair from an occupant of RH’s home?
Which leads me to another question. Is search of one’s trash require a search warrant? Or is it property of the city once collected?

DNA - A Prosecutor’s Practice Notebook Inventory | Abandoned Sample

Learn more about the types of abandoned DNA samples and probable causes for a search warrant.

nij.ojp.gov

Once DNA is on items that are "discarded" in a public place, they are open to warrantless collection. Trash in a suspects own trash bins is a little bit of its own category because at what point is it technically discarded or abandoned?

I believe there was at least one case where person's lawyers argued that the bins were not yet put out by the street, therefore they were still a protected type of evidence. But in general - once you get rid of something in a public place, police can take it.

Warrantless collection has been upheld many times in courts but the main problem is showing chain of custody.

Edit to say- there is a case local to me where a guy suspected of serial rapes was under surveillance and they saw him smoke a cigarette outside a Target and throw the butt away. They collected it and used that to build their case (genetic genealogy had already provided the lead that he might be the person they were looking for).

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It’s not my opinion - Its what the search warrant return says. If you scroll down to the end you can see which ones were marked as sent to the lab. Ill screenshot the pages with the items sent for lab exam

View attachment 523938

View attachment 523936
View attachment 523937

Well then perhaps there was enough evidence collected from those items marked as returned to convict.
Otherwise I cannot formulate why they would collect evidence for testing and not test.
JMO

 

[grannygates]

Well then perhaps there was enough evidence collected from those items marked as returned to convict.
Otherwise I cannot formulate why they would collect evidence for testing and not test.
JMO

I don’t know if we have seen the car carpet mentioned anywhere in filings but the gun and toolmarkings is definitely a huge part of their case. I don’t really understand why they wouldn’t test any of the clothing. I would have assumed they’d do every inch of that blue carhartt jacket.

 

[photographer4]

Well then perhaps there was enough evidence collected from those items marked as returned to convict.
Otherwise I cannot formulate why they would collect evidence for testing and not test.
JMO

The items they collected but appear not to have forwarded to the lab - could they have done some presumptive testing on them to show the presence of XYZ or lack thereof? If they did these and they didn’t turn positive for initial presumptive tests, maybe they were deemed negative and not in need of further investigation? Presumptive and confirmatory tests - Wikipedia

 

[justtrish]

The items they collected but appear not to have forwarded to the lab - could they have done some presumptive testing on them to show the presence of XYZ or lack thereof? If they did these and they didn’t turn positive for initial presumptive tests, maybe they were deemed negative and not in need of further investigation? Presumptive and confirmatory tests - Wikipedia

I am actually wondering if those items with the X are items they had to send out for lab testing and other items they could do "in house". I know not all labs to all the various types of testing. Just a thought. Also, if they had to send just a few items initially, I think those that they have marked X were likely important enough to be the first to go. What if others were sent later and this screengrab of the documents is just the initial testing/items sent out. I'd say over the course of the last nearly 2 years other items could certainly be tested and we wouldn't have record of that, if this document was filed right after the SW was executed.

 

[TTF14]

I am actually wondering if those items with the X are items they had to send out for lab testing and other items they could do "in house". I know not all labs to all the various types of testing. Just a thought. Also, if they had to send just a few items initially, I think those that they have marked X were likely important enough to be the first to go. What if others were sent later and this screengrab of the documents is just the initial testing/items sent out. I'd say over the course of the last nearly 2 years other items could certainly be tested and we wouldn't have record of that, if this document was filed right after the SW was executed.

Yikes. With their track record, I hope they didn't rely on themselves to test anything.

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I am actually wondering if those items with the X are items they had to send out for lab testing and other items they could do "in house". I know not all labs to all the various types of testing. Just a thought. Also, if they had to send just a few items initially, I think those that they have marked X were likely important enough to be the first to go. What if others were sent later and this screengrab of the documents is just the initial testing/items sent out. I'd say over the course of the last nearly 2 years other items could certainly be tested and we wouldn't have record of that, if this document was filed right after the SW was executed.

The return on the search warrant return and its attached list of items has a file date of May 1, 2023.
The SW was executed on Oct. 13, 2022.
My wild guess is they had that in their files for months.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863675/allen-search-warrant-return.pdf

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I was originally just talking about the cat hair comment. I recall the animal hair mentioned on RL SW but I didn’t see any mention of it on RAs, in the actual search warrant or the SW return with the list of collected items? Unless I’m missing it.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Objection-Filed-6-27-2023-13.34.25-248103915-FFC47C07-5DAF-414E-9879-66EEBA100263.pdf

dbm

 

[M. Kay]

I am not tasked TODAY with convicting him because I'm not a juror, the evidence hasn't been presented yet, but I do think the jury will find him guilty, based on the case that will be before them.

Agreeing that all evidence has not yet been presented. We may collectively think "we have most"' yet do not. I was driving many years ago when National Public Radio included in a news broadcast there was discovery with regard to this case...which is how I learned detail of the case initially. Best that a plea spares family, friends and community a court ordeal. Rest in peace Libby and Abby.

 

[SouthEnd]

I would never presume to make a decision on someone's guilt BARD before a trial. We simply *don't have access to all the evidence*.

It's perfectly fine, IMO to say - I believe that the evidence leans this or that way, eg in the Idaho massacre case, IMO the evidence leans pretty hard against BK's innocence. But what frustrates me with this case is having so many leaks/public-oriented FMs that give ppl the impression that we have all the data. But we don't. The prosecution, IMO have been only revealing as little evidence as possible to argue against the DT's motion.

I'm interested in this case, and I'm the public, but I'm not interested in a trial via the public. If that makes sense.

 

[MiniMoo]

It’s not my opinion - Its what the search warrant return says. If you scroll down to the end you can see which ones were marked as sent to the lab. Ill screenshot the pages with the items sent for lab exam

View attachment 523938

View attachment 523936
View attachment 523937

Doesn't seem like any Trophies or Souvenirs from the girls were found among all that unless not listed.

It is highly unlikely the perpetrator, if he did take T & S's, would have gotten rid of anything if he didn't have to at all. It would have been done as a last resort and with immense reluctance and only if he felt threatened in some way.

Either those missing items from the girls may have been tossed in the creek and swept away or the perpetrator took them.

Did RA know he was going to be arrested when he was arrested in October of 2022?

Link:
Articles Of Clothing Missing

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It’s as if the 3-day hearings didn’t happen. And anybody who reported on them can’t be trusted

MOO

Actually, it's off to a bad start with it's lead (thanks to MS); how does this media source its information?
A whole bunch of this article comes from MS; who else?

Does anyone have any verifiable info about RA snubbing a plea deal?

TRIAL TWIST Delphi ‘killer’ Richard Allen snubbing plea deal to ‘avoid disappointing family’ despite confessing to murders 61 times

'Motive' for Delphi 'killer' refusing plea deal despite 61 confessions uncovered

ACCUSED Delphi murderer Richard Allen has allegedly confessed to killing two teen girls more than 60 times since his arrest in 2022, but questions have been raised over why he hasn’t taken a …

www.the-sun.com

I wonder if there was any "gimme monies" involved? I surely hope not. For myself... I don't trust any story that was bought and paid for. MOO

 

[photographer4]

Doesn't seem like any Trophies or Souvenirs from the girls were found among all that unless not listed.

It is highly unlikely the perpetrator, if he did take T & S's, would have gotten rid of anything if he didn't have to at all. It would have been done as a last resort and with immense reluctance and only if he felt threatened in some way.

Either those missing items from the girls may have been tossed in the creek and swept away or the perpetrator took them.

Did RA know he was going to be arrested when he was arrested in October of 2022?

Link:
Articles Of Clothing Missing

I wondered this as well. I noticed the date of the SW but I seem to recall RA was arrested in late October. Yeah Oct 26 was his arrest date per this article:

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

The SW was conducted on Oct 13 per this article:

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

I wonder what was going through his mind in the delay between the warrant and arrest??

I always thought some lab test must have come back positive for some forensic evidence and that is how they took so long between SW and arrest???

 

[MiniMoo]

I wondered this as well. I noticed the date of the SW but I seem to recall RA was arrested in late October. Yeah Oct 26 was his arrest date per this article:

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

The SW was conducted on Oct 13 per this article:

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

I wonder what was going through his mind in the delay between the warrant and arrest??

I always thought some lab test must have come back positive for some forensic evidence and that is how they took so long between SW and arrest???

October 13th until October 26th, 2022.

If he was a POI would the LE have kept an eye on him 24/7 between mid October and the arrest?

That would have been ample time to get rid of anything for sure.

For them to have made an arrest you could be right about something coming back positive in the lab tests carried out.

During the trial we may find out what sealed it for the LE to arrest RA when they did - hope so anyway.

 

[photographer4]

October 13th until October 26th, 2022.

If he was a POI would the LE have kept an eye on him 24/7 between mid October and the arrest?

That would have been ample time to get rid of anything for sure.

For them to have made an arrest you could be right about something coming back positive in the lab tests carried out.

During the trial we may find out what sealed it for the LE to arrest RA when they did - hope so anyway.

What it seems to suggest as well to me is that the police likely did put 24/7 detail on him. Maybe they left him in the wild with supervision to see what he did, where he went, who he saw and or spoke with?

If they were confident it was RA in the video, what stopped them arresting him at any point earlier? They’d have seen him when they interviewed him. They’d have seen his walk, heard his voice. Why did they need to wait for the SW to be completed and then a few days later to arrest him?

Is it possible they only got the warrant to scare him? Make him think he was going down for it and hope he would sing like a bird on anyone else who may have been involved?

Did they hope he would be so spooked he would confess? Or that he would discard something of evidentiary value in a place they could get it without a warrant??

is the waiting so long between the sw and arrest an indication the case wasn’t strong enough til something came back from the SW???