Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[sunshineray]

<modsnip - no link>

I was looking more for actual proof that any of the defenses filings are truly “filled with lies”, as this is a claim that continues to be repeated and I’m never able to get a clear answer from anyone of what exactly the proven lies are. Just because you cant believe it, doesn’t make it not true. Crimes happen everyday that are beyond our comprehension.

I’m able to compare documents and see discrepancies on the states half, which I’ve provided some examples, so I’m asking for the same if these accusations are going to continue. I still haven’t been provided with the line within the in-chambers meeting transcript where the defense allegedly lied either.

We're at polar opposite sides in the viewing and digesting of the FMs. I'm of the mind that the actual proof is in the documents and speaks volumes for itself. IIRC the FBI is of the mind that geofencing is not very accurate. Let the experts testify and the jury decide. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

"RA told DD..."

Is a copy of that note available or a record of it anywhere.

That I haven't seen.

Does anyone by chance have it anywhere?

It's referenced in the PCA.

 

[Salah11]

I’m sorry, who does this? I may be missing a joke about the fifth amendment or something here? Maybe I need a keg of coffee

BBM

Who does what?

It was in Reference to a possible Fifth Franks Motion. It’s a very well known expression when I last checked. I don’t have the fifth amendment in the UK. I believe we have “Right to remain silent“.

 

[MiniMoo]

I wonder how much their memory of who they saw has been impacted by having seen mugshots or a line up? I wonder if they were asked to point out who they saw vs - the person you saw may or may not be in these mug shots / line up etc... Memory is fragile and easy to mess with unfortunately - I'll say MOO for now, but its a matter of googling witness issues really.

We definitely wouldn't want it to be something akin to falsified memories.

Don't think he should be pointed out in court as who wouldn't know his face from Delphi (neighbouring towns) by now.

 

[sunshineray]

BBM

Who does what?

It was in Reference to a possible Fifth Franks Motion. It’s a very well known expression when I last checked. I don’t have the fifth amendment in the UK. I believe we have “Right to remain silent“.

Because anything can and will be used against you in a court of law? Like don't confess over 60 times because that might not work in your favor?

 

[Salah11]

Because anything can and will be used against you in a court of law? Like don't confess over 60 times because that might not work in your favor?

Yes exactly that

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder how much their memory of who they saw has been impacted by having seen mugshots or a line up? I wonder if they were asked to point out who they saw vs - the person you saw may or may not be in these mug shots / line up etc... Memory is fragile and easy to mess with unfortunately - I'll say MOO for now, but its a matter of googling witness issues really.

Then the defense can put on an expert witness to testify to that at trial...I suppose.

 

[sunshineray]

If you want a TLDR, I think the new thing we talked about today was the letters from Holeman and Mullin, the transcript, and whether that documentation would say that they were still investigating other possible accomplices after RAs arrest. Have you had a chance to read those?

And if they still were still investigating whether or not any others were involved, that would somehow absolved RA from guilt?

 

[sunshineray]

Remains to be seen whether they’re horrible to witnesses or conduct themselves gracefully. It’s not always a defense attorney’s fault if a witness starts to crumble or cry on the stand. Sometimes that happens, no matter how gentle a lawyer is.

Well certainly if the subject matter is the horrific murder of two contemporaries.

 

[MiniMoo]

Especially since the bullet was allegedly found 3 days after the crime scene was released and resecured.

And found by whom?

IMO MOO

3 days after? What!

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder when JG will rule on the motion in limine

Kind of critical to the shape of the trial

 

[MiniMoo]

I said poofy, not goofy.

We may need a clear break down of what is considered a goofy hairstyle and a poofy hairstyle, but especially poofy.

 

[sunshineray]

Especially since the bullet was allegedly found 3 days after the crime scene was released and resecured.

And found by whom?

IMO MOO

Was this in the FMs too?

 

[MiniMoo]

It's referenced in the PCA.

What is a tip narrative exactly?

Does anyone know.

 

[Salah11]

I am still patiently waiting for people to point out how many other bullets were found at the crime scene under the bodies.
Because I believe it was just the one Bullet found and no other random ones, which again points to his guilt. I know some parts of America love guns, so the fact there was only one bullet found matching his gun speaks volumes. It was not a place where the local town people went to shoot their guns.


It surely can’t be a conspiracy, because then why did it take over 5 years to match this bullet to his gun?!

moo

 

[sunshineray]

What is a tip narrative exactly?

Does anyone know.

A spoken or written account/report of something...in this case any information that LE has solicited from the public concerning the murders of two children.

 

[FrostedGlass]

26 minutes - which way? Behind or ahead.

We had been talking about the accuracy of the HHS video. I used RL as an example to show LE did confirm accuracy. They said the transfer station vid appeared to be off by 26 minutes. It was slow.

To further clarify the issue: LE did check for accuracy on the HHS video and have it down to the seconds actual time.
BB is seen on video at Hoosier Harvestore on 300 North traveling east bound to the trailhead
to park at 13:46:20 actual time

Page 9

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863675/allen-search-warrant-return.pdf

 

[girlhasnoname]

I supplied the link to the filing several times. I’m assuming that people are asking for links because they want to read the filing for themselves.

The information that I was trying to get across is that there are video recordings of the statements from these witnesses that the court would be able to watch and confirm what the witness actually said in their statements. We have also discussed several times that lawyers are not allowed to lie to the court. Considering the defense supplied the court with a copy of these videotaped recordings to confirm, it would be ridiculous for the defense to lie about statements made on the video recordings.

This Defense has proven to be ridiculous time and time again. I trust nothing that comes out of their mouths, just like this hypothesizing Franks 3.

I will wait to hear BB's and SC's testimony at trial and see how much of this 'interpretation' by the D is factually correct.

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Murder Sheet Coverage of court hearing Day 3, defense introduced the deposition and discussed it. You can listen to that episode to confirm.

I have listened to the episode and do not recall this being discussed. I do not recall her deposition being discussed here or anywhere else, for that matter. I have provided the search warrant and affidavit that says nothing about books regarding Nordic beliefs. This is a pretty large claim that is unsubstantiated (just like several others, really). Do you have a time in the episode I could reference?

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's worth remembering about the first Franks that it essentially hangs on two key allegations. Namely that Ligget misrepresented witness statements or omitted exculpatory evidence.

Given the Judge was provided the witness statements and Liggets depo, she is able to reach her factual conclusions without a hearing. It is not as if the witnesses or ligget need to testify. The question is simply does Ligget's statement accord with the witness statements viewed side by side.

Once Judge Gull decided there was no misrepresentation or misleading as a factual question, the D failed to meet the burden for a hearing. Had she found misrepresentation/omission, then there would have to be a hearing for oral arguments as to consequences.

Some might have the idea a Franks hearing would have involved the witnesses and Ligget testifying, but i don't see it that way. Whether he misrepresented anything had to be determined by comparing the witness statement to the SW PCA IMO

MOO

Do you suppose the judge would have set a FM hearing for the Lebrato/Scremin team? This bit from her 11/14/23 order (from the CCS) seems to indicate that she would. They apparently saw some problems, too.

If defendant's new counsel inform the Court they intend to pursue the Franks Motion, the Court will schedule a hearing.

Barbara MacDonald talking about the Lebrato interview after he and Scremin were taken off the case.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com