Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[MiniMoo]

If you want a TLDR, I think the new thing we talked about today was the letters from Holeman and Mullin, the transcript, and whether that documentation would say that they were still investigating other possible accomplices after RAs arrest. Have you had a chance to read those?

No. Not yet.
Will go back and look.

 

[FromGermany1]

Some of my thought on the catfishing account A.S. I believe LE suspect Richard Allen had a connection to A.S. account, not only because of the searches at the two homes, (KAK family and RA) also because LE states KAK was in contact with Libby. ETC

LE also stated more than one person in the KAK household was using that account.

However, to my knowledge, only KAK has been charged. No one else in his household, why, because possibly LE could not positively identify another A.S. user. No evidence to charge another.

Same with Richard Allen, LE could find no evidence to prove he was involved with A.S. account. Without evidence a person should/can't be charged with the crime.

I do think this was a CSAM crime, however lack of evidence does not mean a person is innocent of the crime, simply that the person isn't charged.

Others involved. (simply can't prove it)

I vague remember, when KAK learned of the missing/murdered girls, he was shocked and said/thought something like "that would looking very bad for himself now". The wording isn't quite right, but the meaning of the statement is tantamount, as far as I remember. (I don't know, where to find this sentence now, which KAK thought or said. Otherwise I would present a link.)

WHY did KAK have concern, the missing/murdered girls would in some form lead to him? Only because he had phone calls with Libby?? Only because he feared to be unmasked with his fake account A_S?? Or because he knew, which person he enabled to have direct contact?

There may have been a connection between A/L and KAK and in addition with the person (say: RA), who was the most responsible for things, which happened to the girls (going missing/being murdered).

We will see in October/Nov. hopefully, if KAK played a role, although now there is never any talk of him.

 

[MiniMoo]

Regarding LE checking the HHS video for time accuracy:

They did check the video at the transfer station when they were checking on RL's alibi. It's stated the video appears to be off by 26 minutes. If they checked for correct times for RL, I would hope they would do the same in RA's case.

It's in the PCA, item 17.

LOGAN WARRANT final_Redacted.pdf

et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. ...

www.docdroid.net

26 minutes - which way? Behind or ahead.

 

[MiniMoo]

RA told DD according to his note that he was at the trail between 13:30-15:30 on Feb 13th. In his interview with LE RA stated he was there between 1:30 and 3:30. I believe the only other place that claims he was there from Noon to 1:30 is the Franks Memo. Is that still correct?

I never believed RL was a serious POI. Too old, too tall, and his body build was completely different to me.

The SCOIN stated in their findings that SJG was not biased. I am attaching the actual document in case anyone wants to read through it.

It's been awhile and plainly states that SJG had reasonable cause to be concerned about the actions of R&B but hit the eject button too early.

They also found she showed no bias towards them or RA, if anything she expressed genuine concern that he was receiving proper legal representation under his 6th Amendment Right. (Due Process Gang)

Adobe Acrobat

JMO

"RA told DD..."

Is a copy of that note available or a record of it anywhere.

That I haven't seen.

Does anyone by chance have it anywhere?

 

[mrjitty]

It's worth remembering about the first Franks that it essentially hangs on two key allegations. Namely that Ligget misrepresented witness statements or omitted exculpatory evidence.

Given the Judge was provided the witness statements and Liggets depo, she is able to reach her factual conclusions without a hearing. It is not as if the witnesses or ligget need to testify. The question is simply does Ligget's statement accord with the witness statements viewed side by side.

Once Judge Gull decided there was no misrepresentation or misleading as a factual question, the D failed to meet the burden for a hearing. Had she found misrepresentation/omission, then there would have to be a hearing for oral arguments as to consequences.

Some might have the idea a Franks hearing would have involved the witnesses and Ligget testifying, but i don't see it that way. Whether he misrepresented anything had to be determined by comparing the witness statement to the SW PCA IMO

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

The geofencing done by the FBI agent would be as accurate as the GPS used for google maps, as that is where they get the data from.

I was looking more for actual proof that any of the defenses filings are truly “filled with lies”, as this is a claim that continues to be repeated and I’m never able to get a clear answer from anyone of what exactly the proven lies are. Just because you cant believe it, doesn’t make it not true. Crimes happen everyday that are beyond our comprehension.

I’m able to compare documents and see discrepancies on the states half, which I’ve provided some examples, so I’m asking for the same if these accusations are going to continue. I still haven’t been provided with the line within the in-chambers meeting transcript where the defense allegedly lied either.

We're at polar opposite sides in the viewing and digesting of the FMs. I'm of the mind that the actual proof is in the documents and speaks volumes for itself. IIRC the FBI is of the mind that geofencing is not very accurate. Let the experts testify and the jury decide. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

"RA told DD..."

Is a copy of that note available or a record of it anywhere.

That I haven't seen.

Does anyone by chance have it anywhere?

It's referenced in the PCA.

 

[Salah11]

I’m sorry, who does this? I may be missing a joke about the fifth amendment or something here? Maybe I need a keg of coffee

BBM

Who does what?

It was in Reference to a possible Fifth Franks Motion. It’s a very well known expression when I last checked. I don’t have the fifth amendment in the UK. I believe we have “Right to remain silent“.

 

[MiniMoo]

I wonder how much their memory of who they saw has been impacted by having seen mugshots or a line up? I wonder if they were asked to point out who they saw vs - the person you saw may or may not be in these mug shots / line up etc... Memory is fragile and easy to mess with unfortunately - I'll say MOO for now, but its a matter of googling witness issues really.

We definitely wouldn't want it to be something akin to falsified memories.

Don't think he should be pointed out in court as who wouldn't know his face from Delphi (neighbouring towns) by now.

 

[sunshineray]

BBM

Who does what?

It was in Reference to a possible Fifth Franks Motion. It’s a very well known expression when I last checked. I don’t have the fifth amendment in the UK. I believe we have “Right to remain silent“.

Because anything can and will be used against you in a court of law? Like don't confess over 60 times because that might not work in your favor?

 

[Salah11]

Because anything can and will be used against you in a court of law? Like don't confess over 60 times because that might not work in your favor?

Yes exactly that

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder how much their memory of who they saw has been impacted by having seen mugshots or a line up? I wonder if they were asked to point out who they saw vs - the person you saw may or may not be in these mug shots / line up etc... Memory is fragile and easy to mess with unfortunately - I'll say MOO for now, but its a matter of googling witness issues really.

Then the defense can put on an expert witness to testify to that at trial...I suppose.

 

[sunshineray]

If you want a TLDR, I think the new thing we talked about today was the letters from Holeman and Mullin, the transcript, and whether that documentation would say that they were still investigating other possible accomplices after RAs arrest. Have you had a chance to read those?

And if they still were still investigating whether or not any others were involved, that would somehow absolved RA from guilt?

 

[sunshineray]

Remains to be seen whether they’re horrible to witnesses or conduct themselves gracefully. It’s not always a defense attorney’s fault if a witness starts to crumble or cry on the stand. Sometimes that happens, no matter how gentle a lawyer is.

Well certainly if the subject matter is the horrific murder of two contemporaries.

 

[MiniMoo]

Especially since the bullet was allegedly found 3 days after the crime scene was released and resecured.

And found by whom?

IMO MOO

3 days after? What!

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder when JG will rule on the motion in limine

Kind of critical to the shape of the trial

 

[sunshineray]

Using your handy link April 12,2017 is the date that the man from Georgia called Winters about the mimicked crime scene photo, so that was really quick after the murders that people were looking at him and his online presence. I didn’t realize it was that fast.

And on April 12, 2017 how did the man from Georgia know what the murder scene looked like?

 

[MiniMoo]

I said poofy, not goofy.

We may need a clear break down of what is considered a goofy hairstyle and a poofy hairstyle, but especially poofy.

 

[sunshineray]

Especially since the bullet was allegedly found 3 days after the crime scene was released and resecured.

And found by whom?

IMO MOO

Was this in the FMs too?

 

[MiniMoo]

It's referenced in the PCA.

What is a tip narrative exactly?

Does anyone know.