Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[FrostedGlass]

I definitely feel for Abby and Libby as well as their families.

Chaotic is what was used so you could be right with the leaves, branches, bodies and...

Where did you get piece of rope from?

IIRC, it's in the FM. A yellow rope

Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[sunshineray]

Who in their right mind slaughters little girls in a park? Maybe he hasn't been in his right mind for awhile. JMO

Or maybe he finally let his evil fantasy play out in reality. Then years later, after living with what he'd done, maybe even fighting the urge to do it again, after having been found out, he has enough remorse (for whatever reasons make sense to his mind) to want to confess it all. MO

 

[Tealgrove]

I think Libby was stabbed once in the neck and staggered closer to the tree. Another 2 blows put her on the ground. I think RA had more rage towards Libby than Abby for fighting back harder or for other twisted personal reasons?

Finding a scene like that would be beyond chaotic and the things nightmares are made of. IDK, I don't like to dwell on that part of this crime. Those poor girls suffered fear beyond our understanding and it's so very sad for them and their families who have endured many years of emotional pain by fake and sensationalized rumors.

I just want true justice, the right person, whom I believe to be RA, to go to trial, have the evidence presented, and for a jury of his peers to decide his guilt or innocence. This has gone on far too long for everyone. If the jury finds RA innocent I will accept that, but I honestly do not think that will happen here.

This has been a long journey here on WS, many threads, many thoughts, many emotions, many words, but I still believe that each one of us want the killer of these girls to face justice.

MOO

Bolded by me.

In the original Presser, I am quite certain that when they had everyone up on stage, those words were spoken by Doug Carter. It was very clear that even seasoned FBI, ISP etc., were visibly shaken.

I will NEVER forget that Presser.

 

[snarast]

My opinion, it's ludicrous to think that someone would have returned to bring their bodies back there when so many were searching for them thru the night. Bringing bloody dead bodies back into the woods in darkness when they could have driven them somewhere else where there was nobody around. Makes no sense at all, AJMO

Only chance is if they were alive to walk there under duress from Logan’s property. Still seems very unlikely considering the ongoing search.

 

[MiniMoo]

It's mentioned in the first Franks, so have your salt cellar at the ready.

MOO

Ive never seen the first Franks and there is no salt cellar whatever that is.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@MiniMoo The rope mention is on page 39, footnote 29 of the FM I posted.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ive never seen the first Franks and there is no salt cellar whatever that is.

We were posting over each other.
Here is the footnote:
29 In one crime scene photo, a yellow rope can be viewed. This photo is attached and marked as Exhibit 28 filed as confidentia

 

[TTF14]

Maybe the cell phone was turned on so that the girls would be found sooner rather than later.

Am sure Libby's phone had a pin or lock of some kind so it wouldn't have been like the...

You know what?!

Libby's cell phone would have had to have been dusted or tested for latent fingerprints or something.

I would like to know what the findings were of her cell phone being dusted and if anything was picked up at all or not.

Probably wasn't done.

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ive never seen the first Franks and there is no salt cellar whatever that is.

Do you have links to the three other versions? There's new info in each one.

 

[iamshadow21]

Ive never seen the first Franks and there is no salt cellar whatever that is.

A salt cellar is a salt container. All I meant was to take it with a grain of salt.

The first Franks mentions a piece of yellow rope then goes off on (IMO) a wild tangent about the girls possibly being strung up and bled like deer. Not supported by recent testimony from the blood spatter expert.

So there's every chance the piece of rope was just a random bit of rope lying on the ground, on the property of a man known to keep horses, and not part of the actual sequence of the crime.

MOO

 

[statt#1]

Bolded by me.

In the original Presser, I am quite certain that when they had everyone up on stage, those words were spoken by Doug Carter. It was very clear that even seasoned FBI, ISP etc., were visibly shaken.

I will NEVER forget that Presser.

Interesting you mention DC. I too will never forget that presser. DC, to my eye, was visibly shaken, near the point of an anger at that which he'd seen and learned. I don't think he'd be happy if LE had arrested the wrong guy in this case.

 

[TTF14]

Question for the "RA is already guilty" crowd: Is it still your theory that RA and the girls crossed the creek?

 

[MiniMoo]

@MiniMoo The rope mention is on page 39, footnote 29 of the FM I posted.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

I do recall reading about the crime scene in this document a little while back as it was posted in a previous thread only it couldn't be downloaded by me.

Well, I couldn't save it, but did try.

I do see that footnote on page 39 about the yellow rope - Exhibit 28.

 

[Vern]

Yes, I agree and I think it's more than the cycled round found between the victim's bodies that supposedly matches the gun recovered in the search of RA's house. There's something more I think. We shall see, if the trial happens as scheduled. MO

The SW return mentions a bullet also recovered (from a wooden box in the bedroom) in the search of RA's house as well as two magazines containing .40 cal rounds. (Page 14: Dozens of Richard Allen documents released, cause of death of girls revealed)

I wonder if they've managed to trace those bullets to the same batch and lot as well. Pretty damning if so.

 

[sunshineray]

I like a hands-on experiment! Keep in mind that pass code is not always the same as a PIN. (You could go to your settings and find out if you have your SIM PIN enabled.) One is one device level, the second is on SIM level, the card that connects you with the network. Also potentially your phone could still connect with WiFi without the SIM PIN, but would not connect with a tower and 3-5G.

This is some interesting info on iPhones. Even when it's dead, a depleted battery, it still has reserved power for a few functions, one being the FindMyPhone pinging. Didn't BP & MP mention they were trying to do that?

Even if your iPhone dies, it can still do these 3 things

Your iPhone is a lifeline to many daily activities. When it dies, it can cause problems. But here are three things it can still do.

www.komando.com

 

[MiniMoo]

A salt cellar is a salt container. All I meant was to take it with a grain of salt.

The first Franks mentions a piece of yellow rope then goes off on (IMO) a wild tangent about the girls possibly being strung up and bled like deer. Not supported by recent testimony from the blood spatter expert.

So there's every chance the piece of rope was just a random bit of rope lying on the ground, on the property of a man known to keep horses, and not part of the actual sequence of the crime.

MOO

Thanks for the clarification - have never heard that expression or term before...salt cellar.

If the girls were hung up or strung up I'm sure they would have rope marks or even rope burns on their limbs.

And if not, rope fibres would likely have been left behind on skin or clothing

What do you think?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I do recall reading about the crime scene in this document a little while back as it was posted in a previous thread only it couldn't be downloaded by me.

Well, I couldn't save it, but did try.

I do see that footnote on page 39 about the yellow rope - Exhibit 28.

Is it the scribd format that gives you problems? I have to wait for the ad each time I go to a new page, otherwise it's a blur.

 

[MiniMoo]

Is it the scribd format that gives you problems? I have to wait for the ad each time I go to a new page, otherwise it's a blur.

Scribd wants one to join and I did see lots of blank pages with ads at the top distorting what should be viewed whereas the other one that you posted above opened straight away and could be read just fine only not downloaded.

I didn't wait around with Scribd.

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks for the clarification - have never heard that expression or term before...salt cellar.

If the girls were hung up or strung up I'm sure they would have rope marks or even rope burns on their limbs.

And if not, rope fibres would likely have been left behind on skin or clothing

What do you think?

I think that the rope was at the location before the crime. Trash, detritus of farm life. Whether it was used by the offender at any point in the crime, I don't know, but I think the DT theory of the girls being strung up is wildly speculative and doesn't fit the little we know of the physical evidence.

The other thing I do know is that there's no sign in the released stills of BG that makes me believe he's carrying a length of rope long enough to restrain both girls.

So if it was used at any point, I think it was a found object that was useful, not something he brought to the crime scene.

If the girls were bound tightly enough to restrain them at any point, then I would expect there to be evidence. Bruising, fibre transfer, etc.

MOO

 

[statt#1]

I wonder if they've managed to trace those bullets to the same batch and lot as well. Pretty damning if so.

I don't know the forensics involved in terms of powder used in boxed ammunition, but I bet someone does