Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[steeltowngirl]

DELPHI, Ind. ― Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's defense is missing the proof needed to present evidence of Odinism, ritual human sacrifices and third-party suspects in front of the jury, according to Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland 's memorandum filed Monday night.
[…]

By contrast, as the August 1st hearing demonstrated," McLeland wrote in Monday night's filings, "the defense has only offered up speculation supported by conjecture and buttressed by 'what-ifs.' Without evidence, material or otherwise, that these were ritualistic murders, the defense speculates that various social media posts ... could be connected to the crime scene."

Journal & Courier

Lafayette Indiana News - The Lafayette Journal & Courier provides in-depth coverage of local news, sports, entertainment and Purdue University.

www.jconline.com

 

[TTF14]

Ballistic analysis on unspent bullets cycled through a gun is not junk science. It was used recently in the Murdaugh trial. Because it relies, like many forensic issues, on the opinion of the analyst, it’s always going to be contested, but it doesn’t make it illegitimate.
Group that together with the confessions and everything else, taking it all in in, in its entirety, and the prosecution has a pretty good case.

I didn't realize it had been used in the Murdaugh trial. I watched the whole trial, but usually ballistics stuff bores me to tears so I'm sure I zoned out. Was there an unspent round in that case? Where was it found, etc.? I'd like to rewatch the testimony if you have any clue what day it would have been on? I'm not asking you to find it for me, but if you happen to know, that would be great.

 

[TTF14]

DELPHI, Ind. ― Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's defense is missing the proof needed to present evidence of Odinism, ritual human sacrifices and third-party suspects in front of the jury, according to Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland 's memorandum filed Monday night.
[…]

By contrast, as the August 1st hearing demonstrated," McLeland wrote in Monday night's filings, "the defense has only offered up speculation supported by conjecture and buttressed by 'what-ifs.' Without evidence, material or otherwise, that these were ritualistic murders, the defense speculates that various social media posts ... could be connected to the crime scene."

Journal & Courier

Lafayette Indiana News - The Lafayette Journal & Courier provides in-depth coverage of local news, sports, entertainment and Purdue University.

www.jconline.com

Well, thankfully Nick isn't making the decision. Judge Gull is.

What in the world is taking her so long??

IMO MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

I didn't realize it had been used in the Murdaugh trial. I watched the whole trial, but usually ballistics stuff bores me to tears so I'm sure I zoned out. Was there an unspent round in that case? Where was it found, etc.? I'd like to rewatch the testimony if you have any clue what day it would have been on? I'm not asking you to find it for me, but if you happen to know, that would be great.

I think it was during the testimony of SLED Firearms Identification Examiner Paul Greer, this article says it was on day 10 of the trial that he was questioned on ammunition found near one victim that he testified was loaded into and ejected from specific guns: Prosecution, defense argue over ammunition found near Maggie Murdaugh’s body

Hope this helps you locate it.

Full disclosure: I have not watched this testimony yet. Didn't keep up with the Murdaugh trial after a few days.

 

[Spartygirl]

I didn't think either girls struggled?

From the search warrant for Ron Logan, bullet #7:
LG and AW had no visible signs of a struggle or fight".
Link to Search Warrant

According to girl's families, they fought like He!l IIRC & JMO

Delphi murders thrown into question by shocking new probe into deaths

A shocking new probe into the Delphi murders has raised doubt over the suspect charged with the brutal double-slaying of Libby German and Abby Williams in 2017 that shocked a nation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

\
PLUS THIS--- BOTH GIRLS WERE HEROES !!!!!!!!!!!
“Both the girls were heroes -- they stuck together,” Patty said. “I don’t know exactly what happened out there that day, but I imagine there was probably an opportunity for one or both to separate or try to make a break, but those girls loved each other. They were good friends -- neither one of them left each other’s side.”

Just breaks my heart !!!!!!!!!!

Delphi, Indiana teens slain: Liberty German's grandfather says "Both girls were heroes"

The family of slain teen Liberty German spoke publicly for the first time since German and her friend Abigail Williams were found slain Feb. 14 in the woods near Delphi

www.cbsnews.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Well, thankfully Nick isn't making the decision. Judge Gull is.

What in the world is taking her so long??

IMO MOO

She is likely giving a thorough and thoughtful review of both sides on a complex matter. Her decision will need to withstand legal challenges.

jmo

 

[Spartygirl]

I read similar, but according to RL’s search warrant, as posted by @Vaderman, it appears the quote is not based on fact. Perhaps just someone’s assumption? JMO

More than likely, just FBI (NR) assumption

I am not a fan of her so I take anything written by her with a grain of salt.
JMO

 

[katydid23]

Well, thankfully Nick isn't making the decision. Judge Gull is.

What in the world is taking her so long??

IMO MOO

She gave both sides the chance to make written statement of their closing arguments. We just saw Nick's submission. Did the D send theirs in yet?

 

[TTF14]

She gave both sides the chance to make written statement of their closing arguments. We just saw Nick's submission. Did the D send theirs in yet?

I think Nick's was a response to the DT's from last week.

IMO MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

She gave both sides the chance to make written statement of their closing arguments. We just saw Nick's submission. Did the D send theirs in yet?

Probably Not.

They are too busy writing up another FM LOL

They did NOT submit reimbursement properly
They did NOT subpoena this latest Doctor correctly.

Are we sure this isn't their first murder case ??

JMO

 

[justtrish]

I didn't realize it had been used in the Murdaugh trial. I watched the whole trial, but usually ballistics stuff bores me to tears so I'm sure I zoned out. Was there an unspent round in that case? Where was it found, etc.? I'd like to rewatch the testimony if you have any clue what day it would have been on? I'm not asking you to find it for me, but if you happen to know, that would be great.

I zoned out a bit on the Murdaugh trial also.

One ballistics expert that kept my attention was Matt White in the Rhoden family murders, when George Wagner was on trial. He talked to the average person, but you could tell he was top notch and he was so sharp. He didn't use all the terms that would be over most people's heads. He also didn't dumb it down, but he spoke in a way that just made it easy to follow. He seemed like a teacher the way he explained things. This is so very helpful for juries. Often experts seem to talk like they are speaking to other experts who would know what they are talking about already instead of explaining it to someone that has never heard of this before. Anyway sorta off track, but wanted to mention this in case you'd be interested in listening.

 

[sunshineray]

Well, thankfully Nick isn't making the decision. Judge Gull is.

What in the world is taking her so long??

IMO MOO

She had to wait for the defense and the prosection's filings before making rulings on things.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think it was during the testimony of SLED Firearms Identification Examiner Paul Greer, this article says it was on day 10 of the trial that he was questioned on ammunition found near one victim that he testified was loaded into and ejected from specific guns: Prosecution, defense argue over ammunition found near Maggie Murdaugh’s body

Hope this helps you locate it.

Full disclosure: I have not watched this testimony yet. Didn't keep up with the Murdaugh trial after a few days.

I thought the firearms expert in this case was very informative. I learned a lot during his testimony.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

She is likely giving a thorough and thoughtful review of both sides on a complex matter. Her decision will need to withstand legal challenges.

jmo

Yes, she surely doesn't want to be perceived as biased.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Let's go back to our young teenage years and just imagine for a moment:

You are walking on a 60-70ft corroded, dangerous high bridge (Abby for the first time) and some creeper man brandishing a weapon while on said bridge approaches you and orders you DTH at gunpoint.

Do you really think these girls had time to even begin to process what avenue would have been a better route of escape or if Libby was supposedly banned from a property she wouldn't have run to it for safety regardless of the consequences?

This is real life, real time happenings. These young girls were probably in shocked compliance mode. I will not blame them for being brutally murdered that day for ANY of their choices. What happened to them is beyond our understanding from our comfy analytical armchair.

Abby & Libby were innocent victims period and to think they had time and the mental wherewithal to figure out an escape plan or save themselves from a monster but didn't for whatever reason is hurtful and shockingly in poor taste. Haven't they suffered enough? They've been dead for over seven years, I think Abby & Libby have paid the ultimate price.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

There area circled is the abduction side of the bridge. There's a driveway and 3 private properties, right there on that side of the bridge there's no public trail.
View attachment 527358

Thank you for posting this map; it's one I've been looking for. I was thinking it was one GH put out and the drop off time of 1:35 was of special interest to me.

 

[mrjitty]

In terms of a learning opportunity, I am quite grateful for the recent legal filings following the motion in limine hearing on 3rd party suspects. I'd read a number of these cases but now it is easier to discuss via reference to the filing.

I think one thing that is perhaps conceptually a leap with this stuff, is that the prosecution need only prove RA guilty beyond reasonable doubt. They do not need to disprove every tip or theory. Especially tips are not of themselves evidence. This is a theme in the case law.

If you want to indulge your inner lawyer anorak, this happened in the case where AH is saying BH told her that PW did it. IMO it's a classic tip situation. Word is, X did it. AH has no evidence PW did it. Also it's hearsay.

IMO it shows how hard it is for Judges to draw the line. These cases receive 1000s of tips. Logistically it is not possible to rule them all out at trial. Therefore there is an evidential onus on the defence to point to some evidence of involvement that could raise reasonable doubt.

It feels unconstitutional - but how else can it work?

States Response
Adobe Acrobat

 

[susiQ]

DBM

 

[katydid23]

In terms of a learning opportunity, I am quite grateful for the recent legal filings following the motion in limine hearing on 3rd party suspects. I'd read a number of these cases but now it is easier to discuss via reference to the filing.

I think one thing that is perhaps conceptually a leap with this stuff, is that the prosecution need only prove RA guilty beyond reasonable doubt. They do not need to disprove every tip or theory. Especially tips are not of themselves evidence. This is a theme in the case law.

If you want to indulge your inner lawyer anorak, this happened in the case where AH is saying BH told her that PW did it. IMO it's a classic tip situation. Word is, X did it. AH has no evidence PW did it. Also it's hearsay.

IMO it shows how hard it is for Judges to draw the line. These cases receive 1000s of tips. Logistically it is not possible to rule them all out at trial. Therefore there is an evidential onus on the defence to point to some evidence of involvement that could raise reasonable doubt.

It feels unconstitutional - but how else can it work?

States Response
Adobe Acrobat

I think the judge in the Chase Merrit trial gave a whole lot of leeway to the defense to allow testimony about SODDI.

Joseph McStay's tumultuous business partnership did seem to raise some reasonable doubt, but the ex-partner was lucky enough to have some pretty credible alibi receipts, allegedly proving he was in Hawaii on vacay during the murders. But even then the defense was able to poke some holes in some of that evidence---maybe someone else used his airline tickets, maybe some of those FB posts of him surfing were taken on a previous trip, etc...

Defending against that SODDI took a lot of time and energy from the State's main case--but they had no choice but to play whack-a-mole.

I could see the same thing happening in this case if JG allows this Odin stuff in.