Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

[ItalyReader]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828710861201866824

Thank you -
here is also the scuttlebutt article - Former Bayesian captain offers insight

 

[Charlot123]

Crew. Were All Fluent in a Common Language? Language Barrier?

@RedHaus Thanks for your post w listing of crew members' ages, good point.

My title pretty much says it. Even in a crisis where everyone is fluent in a shared language, it's easy for miscommunications to happen.
Did all the crew members speak a common language?

Is it reasonable to guess, w a Kiwi captain & British passengers/guests (were some from other countries?) that it would be English? IDK.

Despite some crew hailing from Myanmar,* Ireland,** France,*** The Netherlands,**** it's possible they all spoke English fluently.

Also what about language of WEATHER REPORTS? Broadcast? Online? Or ?

Regardless, even if weather was the only/primary direct cause, circumstances would have been ripe for miscommunication.
What a tragedy.


____________________________
Languages, per wiki
* Official = Burmese.
** English, Irish, & Ulster Scots dialect.
*** Official = French.
**** Official = Dutch.

If they lived in Europe for a while, chances are, many of them were at least bilingual, if not trilingual. JMO.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828745612571087145

"Italian prosecutors are investigating Tim Parker Eaton,
who was in charge of the engine room on the night of the sinking,
a judicial source told Reuters today.

Investigators are also said to be probing another British crew member, Matthew Griffith,
who was keeping watch on deck,
as well as Tijs Koopmans, 33, the Dutch first officer."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828751016650551629

 

[Alyce]

In addition to @Dotta's response with sources about the possible inexperience of the crew, take a look at the ages of the surviving crew per today's DM article.

While not all have ages listed, many who do are quite young. Granted that could be explained by the split between hospitality and sailing crew as we don't know each survivor's role on the yacht. But I still find it striking how young aka inexperienced many of the crew was.

So I suppose one line of inquery by the prosecutor could be hiring decisions and training protocols. And I wonder now, does the captain and/or the owners of a yacht hire crew?

"Who are the nine surviving crew members
Captain James Cutfield, 51, a New Zealander
Sasha Murray, 29, from Ireland
Kyaw Htun Myin, 31 from Myanmar
Matthew Griffith, 22, from France
Leo Eppel, from South Africa
Onboard hostess Leah Randall, 20 from South Africa
Hostess Katja Chicken, 23, from Germany
Tus Koopmans, from the Netherlands
Eaton Parker, believed to be from the UK"

All IMO

Sasha Murray, 29, Chief Stewardess
Kyaw Htun Myin, Burmese, age 39
Matthew Griffith, 22 was look out on that night
Leo Eppel, 19, on his first voyage
Tim Parker Eaton, no age found, but described as long serving crew member, was the ship engineer
Tijs Koopmans, 33, First Officer




Italian prosecutors are investigating Tim Parker Eaton, who was in charge of the engine room on the night of the sinking, a judicial source told Reuters today.

Investigators are also said to be probing another British crew member, Matthew Griffith, who was keeping watch on deck, as well as Tijs Koopmans, 33, the Dutch first officer.

Two British crew members on Bayesian placed under investigation

James Cutfield, a 51-year-old New Zealander, was quizzed by Italian prosecutors after being placed under investigation on Monday for manslaughter and shipwreck.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Two British crew members on Bayesian superyacht under investigation

The captain of the yacht, James Cutfield, from New Zealand, was put under investigation on Monday but has decided not to respond to prosecutors' questions.

news.sky.com

 

[RedHaus]

@branmuffin
So I found some photos - there were windows in at least some of the staterooms - if you go here you can see a room with 3 portholes - BAYESIAN Yacht Photos (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Great photo album of the yacht. How magnificent. And yes, I see portals in some of the stateroom pics. I doubt they can be opened, but if so, of course the investigators will want to check their status when the yacht is recovered.

That said, since the yacht owner reported windows shattering while in the primary stateroom, then I have to think those shattered windows allowed water ingress as swells overwhelmed the yacht.

Now, is anyone able to blow this control panel up to see what language the controls are labeled in, or even the screen displays? I'm still curious about that.

 

[RedHaus]

Thank you -
here is also the scuttlebutt article - Former Bayesian captain offers insight

Thank you for posting the article since "X" is not a platform I can easily access. I found this interesting as we explore water ingress:

"The Downflooding Angle is much more important though in the scenario we are talking about. This is the angle of heel at which water will start to enter the vessel (usually through engine room or accommodation ventilation ducts)… once this starts the vessels is in serious trouble as stability is quickly reduced or lost due to the flooding.

The downflooding angle for Bayesian was around 40-45 degrees… much less than the AVS. So, unless the vent dampers are closed (which with HVAC systems and generator running they would NOT be as they need to be open for that), the vessel will start to flood rapidly if heeled more than the downflooding angle."

ETA: "In sailing, the... angle of vanishing stability (AVS) is the angle from the vertical at which a boat will no longer stay upright but will capsize, becoming inverted, or turtled." Wiki

 

[ItalyReader]

Great photo album of the yacht. How magnificent. And yes, I see portals in some of the stateroom pics. I doubt they can be opened, but if so, of course the investigators will want to check their status when the yacht is recovered.

That said, since the yacht owner reported windows shattering while in the primary stateroom, then I have to think those shattered windows allowed water ingress as swells overwhelmed the yacht.

Now, is anyone able to blow this control panel up to see what language the controls are labeled in, or even the screen displays? I'm still curious about that.

I also assumed Angela intended the windows of the stateroom, but I don't believe she specified that, so it could have been the windows of the owner's stateroom or it could have been the sound of other windows breaking.

That said, these quotes especially early on will need to be confirmed when the full report comes out.

"Angela explained that she and her husband weren't concerned at first but upon further investigation, the sound of shattering glass sparked panic"

All about Angela Bacares, Mike Lynch's wife rescued from sinking yacht

THE WIFE of missing British billionaire Mike Lynch has been rescued after her yacht was involved in a devastating incident off the coast of Sicily. Angela Bacares managed to escape after heavy stor…

www.the-sun.com

 

[Ruthbullock]

The living/dining area walls appears to have been made entirely of windows. Even if the shutters had been made of metal, I doubt it would have been considered safe, especially with lots of things that could be tossed around in a storm.

I think they were mirror windows- you get them on inside cabins on cruise ships- frosted glass in front of a mirrored lit panel, it gives the sense of daylight, but with no view.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sounds very lawyerly.


“The captain exercised his right to remain silent for two fundamental reasons,” lawyer Giovanni Rizzuti told reporters. “First, he’s very worn out. Second, we were appointed only on Monday and for a thorough and correct defence case we need to acquire a set of data that at the moment we don’t have.”

Superyacht latest: Captain ‘insists he did everything he could’ to save passengers

Captain James Cutfield, ship engineer Tim Parker Eaton and sailor Matthew Griffith all under investigation for manslaughter

www.independent.co.uk

There may have been initial difficulties forming legal teams as his employee who would be responsible for providing the legal team, is also related to some of the deceased who will also need legal representation. They will have had to work out who is representing who without conflicts of interest, as that would jeopardise any outcome.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Thank you for posting the article since "X" is not a platform I can easily access. I found this interesting as we explore water ingress:

"The Downflooding Angle is much more important though in the scenario we are talking about. This is the angle of heel at which water will start to enter the vessel (usually through engine room or accommodation ventilation ducts)… once this starts the vessels is in serious trouble as stability is quickly reduced or lost due to the flooding.

The downflooding angle for Bayesian was around 40-45 degrees… much less than the AVS. So, unless the vent dampers are closed (which with HVAC systems and generator running they would NOT be as they need to be open for that), the vessel will start to flood rapidly if heeled more than the downflooding angle."

ETA: "In sailing, the... angle of vanishing stability (AVS) is the angle from the vertical at which a boat will no longer stay upright but will capsize, becoming inverted, or turtled." Wiki

The belief was, and the company who built the ship have shared video of a similar model ship being hit by a storm in Australia, it would be righting itself even once it has hit the point most sailing boats would submerge- if the keel is lowered.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Thank you -
here is also the scuttlebutt article - Former Bayesian captain offers insight

It sounds like the keel didn’t need to be down due to the distance to shore, I could be wrong, but I didn’t think it was 60 nautical miles out as it could be seen from the shoreline. The impression I got from this article is that it’s a design flaw with sudden bad weather, but I could have misinterpreted it.

 

[RedHaus]

More from CBS about today's investigation developments re: Engineer Tim Parker Eaton.

"According to reports by Italian media, investigators are looking into whether the engineer, Eaton, might have neglected to activate security systems designed to automatically close all the hatches on the vessel, leaving the engine room to flood and possibly causing a power outage and the subsequent rapid flooding of the entire yacht."

 

[vls12345]

Yes, it is safer for passengers to be below deck in a storm.


Passengers should go into the cabin and sit in the centre of the boat. If you are in an open boat with no cabin, passengers are to sit on the floor in the centre of the boat, away from metal objects.
Sailing in a Storm


Protecting passengers during a thunderstorm

The first task is to get everyone below decks and located as follows:

• Up as high in the cabin as possible (i.e. away from the waterline)
• Away from the sides of the vessel
• Well away from the mast
• As far as possible from the lightning protection system
• Away from all electrical cabling and electronic instruments

How to protect your boat and passengers

Thank you for posting this. This is what I had been thinking all along, just as "common" knowledge but I hadn't looked up anything. That's why I felt surprised at so many early reports saying all passengers should have been on deck.

Speaking generally, I think the thought is that a boat is not going to sink. If going on that assumption, it seems dangerous to have passengers on deck during a tumultuous storm as there is a liklihood they could be swept overboard, as well as they could get injured or be in the way of working crew during that time. Also, even if a ship takes on some water, it's ok. There are usually hatches to shut to localize the issue, etc. Obviously, in some cases, there are times when everyone is brought on deck because the decision has been made to abandon ship.

If there was a downdraft as has been suggested, I think the impact was catastrophic very quickly. And there may not have been an official decision/process to abandon ship because events transpired quickly/survivors may have been washed overboard. If the electrical systems had already failed, how would they have made an announcement to the lower berths?

Just musing and MOO only.

 

[bmacmillan1]

Dbm

 

[bmacmillan1]

Dbm

 

[Dotta]

Thank you for posting this. This is what I had been thinking all along, just as "common" knowledge but I hadn't looked up anything. That's why I felt surprised at so many early reports saying all passengers should have been on deck.

Speaking generally, I think the thought is that a boat is not going to sink. If going on that assumption, it seems dangerous to have passengers on deck during a tumultuous storm as there is a liklihood they could be swept overboard, as well as they could get injured or be in the way of working crew during that time. Also, even if a ship takes on some water, it's ok. There are usually hatches to shut to localize the issue, etc. Obviously, in some cases, there are times when everyone is brought on deck because the decision has been made to abandon ship.

If there was a downdraft as has been suggested, I think the impact was catastrophic very quickly. And there may not have been an official decision/process to abandon ship because events transpired quickly/survivors may have been washed overboard. If the electrical systems had already failed, how would they have made an announcement to the lower berths?

Just musing and MOO only.

The passengers should have been gathered in one place,
wearing life jackets and ready to move into life boats (plural)

Not left in cabins which turned to be their coffins.

The weather forecasts were clear what was coming.

Who on this vessel was a designed Safety person?

JMO

 

[Ruthbullock]

Thank you for posting this. This is what I had been thinking all along, just as "common" knowledge but I hadn't looked up anything. That's why I felt surprised at so many early reports saying all passengers should have been on deck.

Speaking generally, I think the thought is that a boat is not going to sink. If going on that assumption, it seems dangerous to have passengers on deck during a tumultuous storm as there is a liklihood they could be swept overboard, as well as they could get injured or be in the way of working crew during that time. Also, even if a ship takes on some water, it's ok. There are usually hatches to shut to localize the issue, etc. Obviously, in some cases, there are times when everyone is brought on deck because the decision has been made to abandon ship.

If there was a downdraft as has been suggested, I think the impact was catastrophic very quickly. And there may not have been an official decision/process to abandon ship because events transpired quickly/survivors may have been washed overboard. If the electrical systems had already failed, how would they have made an announcement to the lower berths?

Just musing and MOO only.

If I was notified, I would do as instructed. That being said, I have never been on a ship that doesn’t instruct you to at least get your life jacket on- no matter where you are then told to muster. Most muster stations are below deck and I assume you would then be taken to your life raft. That is my personal experience of cruising, although some have mustered on the decks. This is obviously a different style of ship, but had they put on life jackets and gathered at a muster point in the lounge- things would have potentially been different. It’s shocking the fact that it’s being reported the crew were on the life raft first and a mother and baby sleeping on deck ended up in the water- that suggests even with a tight schedule something went very wrong with regards the safety of the passengers.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Having looked closer at the pictures of the deck- should they have even been up there minus life jackets? There was little rim to prevent sliding off, even with normal waves tilting the boat. It looks to me like the design of ship where if you left the interior you had a life jacket on.

 

[vls12345]

Were the survivors wearing life jackets? If so, who was wearing life jackets and were they from the ship or the lifeboat itself?

Often, life jackets are stored in cabins. So the mother with the child possibly would have needed to return to her cabin to get her life jacket. Unless there were extras stored in the common area or on deck.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sometimes, Sailors Don't Wear Lifejackets

Is it our business whether someone else wears a lifejacket on their boat? What's the balance between encouraging safe habits and giving opinions?

www.latitude38.com

The article itself is amplified 1000 times in the comments section- it reminds me of when people started first pushing cycle helmets and the majority kicked back and said, but they aren’t needed most of the time.