Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[katydid23]

In my opinion, if someone is just trying to cover up a body by throwing some sticks over it, the sticks do not land and place themselves in such a formation so that criminal investigators think it could possibly be some type of Odinist ritual.

That's not really true, imo. If you look at how the 'formations' of the runes are, literally EVERY possible way a stack of sticks could fall, will fit into some description of a rune.

Especially if you art just using your 'imagination' to find the images of runes in a pile of twigs and branches...

[see examples below]

"The twigs fell individually but made patterns or shapes …"
Photograph: Paul Evans

" They fell individually but made patterns or shapes together – shapes like the Chinese characters or the symbolism of Nordic runes used in spells, or Mimih spirit sticks in the ceremonies of the Kunwinjku people of Australia, or the stick divination of the Dagara people of Burkina Faso.

These stick pictograms belonged to alphabets of shamanism and magic."

Country diary: The wind writes its own history in broken branches | Paul Evans

The Marches, Shropshire: Gales like this have a violent beauty as they rip through trees, bending trunks and pulling at the roots

www.theguardian.com

 

[katydid23]

In my opinion, if someone is just trying to cover up a body by throwing some sticks over it, the sticks do not land and place themselves in such a formation so that criminal investigators think it could possibly be some type of Odinist ritual.

I don't know...They might not have thrown the sticks but literally placed them or arranged them...Even if done haphazardly they can mimic runes...See below,

20

Country diary: The wind writes its own history in broken branches | Paul Evans

The Marches, Shropshire: Gales like this have a violent beauty as they rip through trees, bending trunks and pulling at the roots

www.theguardian.com

These ^^^ branches randomly fell that way, and look as 'rune-like' as the blood splatter does, IMO.

Also, I think the detectives fooled themselves by believing the blood splatter was some type of clue. And they may have done the same thing with the twigs and branches BECAUSE the bodies were allegedly staged in weird poses themselves.

So if there were twigs and branches and leaves etc, piled on top, and possibly even arranged as they were placed there, it could look like a ritual. It does not mean that it was though. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not able to access the article from my region, so this is all my opinion:

I believe all the spending is related to the trial, aka starting from when RA was arrested. So the genetic genealogy test must be recent enough.

My theory is that there was little dna found in the scene, possibly on clothes/shoes etc, possibly touch dna or a partial profile. It was never linked directly to any of the POI otherwise it would have come up, I am certain. If there was any DNA the prosecution would be running it through genetic genealogy to ensure it won't be a funky surprise come trial (I don't know, an Odinist that's not in the system yet). Most likely the results have come back to a non-POI (a school friend, a person with an alibi that gave the poor girls a hug or something) and that's why neither the DT or the Prosecution are talking about that DNA.

That's all MOO

It's a fascinating subject. On the other hand, to what you mentioned, in genealogy testing it could be a partial DNA sample that shows a unique gene mutation that can be used to eliminate people...or include them as a possible match within a uniquely low percentage of people that carry that mutation. I saw a cold case, IIRC in Britain, years ago where a gene mutation helped to convict.

Genealogy research has also venturing into to realm of a "warrior gene" made them do it defense, with some success.

Convicted Murderer Claims 'Warrior Gene' Caused Him to Kill

The New Mexico Supreme Court heard arguments Monday in a bid to overturn the conviction of Anthony Blas Yepez due to a gene mutation in his DNA that has been theorized to impair anger regulation.

www.newsweek.com

 

[FromGermany1]

That thin sticks are able to fall down on the ground like Mikado sticks, which are being dropped, and are suddenly a creation of a pattern like runes, I'm doubting. BUT what I find much more interesting is, that the sticks or part of the sticks were fresh cut like with a saw (was it even an electric saw?). Since 2017 nobody is admitting, he had been on that part of RL-land, not even RL himself, afaik. Who sawed the sticks (in the middle of February) and left them there? And for which purpose was it done?

I think, we know, that RA/BG didn't have fresh sawed, long sticks hidden in his clothing, and he also had no electric saw with him. We saw "white things" and other oddities, he might have had in his blouson or in his pants, but a saw wasn't discovered by anyone.

 

[FromGermany1]

My understanding is that image was posted many years before the murders.

IMO it's most likely confirmation bias from investigators looking to make a connection, and has zero to do with it.

I don't know and just believed the last poster. If the image is an old one, my question would be: Did RA by staging copy the image, which BH posted, because he knew of the relation between BH's son and Abby?
On the other hand: Abby seems to be not his main victim. It makes less sense, if he used a template for his staging, what was connected only with her.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't know who was in Putnamville Correctional.

As I stated it could be something or nothing but the fact they are both in the same small town was worth a look. I'm open to hearing other opinions as to why she was subpoenaed.
MOO

Where did she do her residency and what years that occured might shed some light? She could have been at a hospital that treated someone? Maybe in the years before the arrest? Idk, just some thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

That thin sticks are able to fall down on the ground like Mikado sticks, which are being dropped, and are suddenly a creation of a pattern like runes, I'm doubting. BUT what I find much more interesting is, that the sticks or part of the sticks were fresh cut like with a saw (was it even an electric saw?). Since 2017 nobody is admitting, he had been on that part of RL-land, not even RL himself, afaik. Who sawed the sticks (in the middle of February) and left them there? And for which purpose was it done?

I think, we know, that RA/BG didn't have fresh sawed, long sticks hidden in his clothing, and he also had no electric saw with him. We saw "white things" and other oddities, he might have had in his blouson or in his pants, but a saw wasn't discovered by anyone.

A few people from the area have said that locals often go into the woods and cut twigs and branches for kindling and firewood. All they need is a small hand held ax. There are many homes around there and most of them have fireplaces and many have wood stoves . Not hard to believe someone went on a morning walk to grab some fresh kindling. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Even with the trial, guilt or innocence might never actually be known imo. Many times the wrong person is convicted for crime(s) they did not commit. RA wouldn't be the first, IF it happens to him.

And the guilty go free many times too. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Nope. Two pled guilty to avoid the DP. So no, it's not comparing apples to oranges. Estimates when this case is finally over and done could be well over 10 million. MO.

That article said the Wagner defense lawyers were getting $150 an hour for GWIV. Do we know how much RA's DT is charging an hour?

 

[Vern]

That article said the Wagner defense lawyers were getting $150 an hour for GWIV. Do we know how much RA's DT is charging an hour?

The case at the 10 million level also has many more attorneys involved and getting paid than this case does. I believe there werre 4 defendants ... it may have been 5. Each one of them is going to have their own cohort of lawyers and assistants. The Prosecution will also have much more staff etc on their side getting paid when there are multiple defendants. Given that "wages" and any associated travel fees (milege, meals etc) usually consume the bulk of any expense account, any case involving multiples of those being tried separtely is not really reflective of the cost of the average case involving a single defendant, multiple motions, multiple appeals etc. IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Photographer 4 has never said they think RA is innocent. It’s possible to see that things are very odd and don’t know yet if he’s guilty. Open mind.

Moo imo

In all fairness and of course only my opinion, it's hard to ignore when a man confesses an inordinate amount of times, that he's slaughtered two children, not to believe him. AJMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

A few people from the area have said that locals often go into the woods and cut twigs and branches for kindling and firewood. All they need is a small hand held ax. There are many homes around there and most of them have fireplaces and many have wood stoves . Not hard to believe someone went on a morning walk to grab some fresh kindling. IMO

Agreed, and the pics of those branches could easily be broken off by hand at that time of year. No small ax needed IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That article said the Wagner defense lawyers were getting $150 an hour for GWIV. Do we know how much RA's DT is charging an hour?

I think very close to that IIRC SSR.

 

[Vern]

Agreed, and the pics of those branches could easily be broken off by hand at that time of year. No small ax needed IMO.

By hand or by wind. It was February in Delphi Indiana. I have branches and twigs all over the grounds at our cottage when we go out to open it in the spring that have been brought down by the snows and the wind. Totally random where and how they land - often on top of each other.

 

[girlhasnoname]

RA has confessed 60+ times and was dressed like the killer and is out on the bridge moments before the girls were about to cross.

His gun ejected a shell casing between the victims' bodies. Also has no alibi for the time of the murders.

Yes keep your eyes on the real evidence not what the SM cranks are spouting and the D implying in the Franks Memo.

RA was NOT out there sawing branches with an electric saw. He most reasonably grabbed up and perhaps broke off a few to try and conceal the girls from the view of other side of the creek as best as possible when Libby's father started calling her phone and shouting her name.

TMS said in the pictures they received of the girls at the CS (the ones conveniently 'stolen' from AB) there was no crown of sticks in Abby's hair or distinguishable pattern covering the bodies. Like TMS or not, they had provided verified solid information throughout this case.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Lol... immediate would be way too quick for this case. I wonder why she just didn't come out and explain why the hearing was cancelled = "Sorry folks, our reporter couldn't be here..."
I just can't think of any reason why she cancelled like she did.

The Judge has no legal obligation to disclose why a hearing was canceled. We the public might want to know, but we are not entitled to know.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Quoting my own post.

Best I can find for the purpose of a closed hearing that’s ’off the record’ (ie no transcript) is to share confidential information for which there will be public record of ever having occurred.

Exonerating RA definitely would NOT fall under that category.

Other ideas, aside from an unavailable court reporter?

Of course a Court Reporter was there that day, I mean really, how could there not be? Any conversations held between the Judge and Attorney's regarding the case of The State of Indiana verses Richard Allen has a record made. It's like when people kept insisting there was no record made of the in chambers hearing when JG DQ'd the Defense. That was pounded into the ground by naysayers for weeks. Low and behold, we got a transcript a few weeks later.

We have no idea of what caused the cancelation of the public hearing it could have been requested by the Defense in order not to have information that reflects poorly on their client heard in public. Maybe a plea deal was offered? Who knows, it's all speculation at this point.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

In all fairness and of course only my opinion, it's hard to ignore when a man confesses an inordinate amount of times, that he's slaughtered two children, not to believe him. AJMO

Certainly hard to ignore. And nobody is.

What's important is what was contained in those confessions and how they were obtained, as well as his state of mind (and how he got into that state of mind) when he uttered them.

<modsnip>

IMO MOO

 

[Vern]

IMO, I highly doubt RA will be convicted solely on the PCA and absolutely no one has suggested or inferred that he would be. The confessions (which are not even part of the PCA - they came later) will also go towards that IMO as the Judge has already ruled that they will be allowed into the trial. As will a bunch other evidence that we don't even know that we don't know yet IMO.

I am biased (I can even admit that) - I will always weigh sworn testimony higher than any what-ifs and suppositions given in denied motions. Being unbiased means that one considers and questions and weighs both sides of the equation and their evidence, not merely one side (doesn't seem to be happening at all in this thread). I have concerns that the trial will not be open to the public just as many have, yet I have no concerns with weighing sworn testimony given under oath from the three day hearings that largely debunked the allegations from the FMs.

Especially so when the Defence's own witnesses from LE testified that they investigated SODDIs yet could not place them at the scene at the time of the murders, that they themselves found a sister of one of them to not be credible, that they could not come up with probable cause to execute a search warrant on any of them because they were simply unable to link any of them to the crime. That at least one of them had their words taken out of context by the Defence in the FM. That Dr. Wala herself testified that she thought RA may have been malingering.

We haven't yet seen the vast majority of the State's evidence. That is what trials are for. That should be obvious.

I won't link the MS 3 day hearings (one of the sources for the above testimony that has been linked in here often) as many choose not to listen to anything they put out about this case <modsnip: Please don't reference non approved sources> This is not coming from just the MS.

No, IMO RA will not be convicted on the PCA; there will plenty of evidence presented at trial that will be heard, seen and weighed by the jurors who will be present at trial and whom will decide RA's guilt or innocence and, if required, his eventual fate.

Justice for Abby & Libby. It's their time.

 

[TTF14]

The confessions (which are not even part of the PCA - they came later)

Touché.

We still need to hear the contents and how the confessions were obtained to determine their validity. It is NOT normal to "confess" so many times without pleading guilty. IMO

<modsnip>

IMO MOO