Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[sunshineray]

Your reply to the OP in regards to RA possibly confessing to his attorney's.....

That is why I personally could never be a defense attorney. If someone told me that they did what was done to those girls, I could never defend that. Let alone try to blame others for it that you know had nothing at all to do with it.

Speaking of confessing to your attorney...

There was an interesting suggestion on the latest TMS Podcast, I just listened to entitled "The Confessions Are In". Well not even a suggestion more of a wild guess concerning the perplexing (to me) issue of why RA's lawyers did not try to argued psychosis, in battling the confessions being admitted. They've not to date had him evaluated for his competency to willingly and rationally confess. They've just said it was all these things, done to him, that effected him negatively and that's why we shouldn't believe ANY of his confessions. Throw them all out.

If they believe he in fact was suffering from psychosis, brought on by his conditions, that would seem a logical way to argue away his confessions from being admitted, have him evaluated to protect his rights and mental health. RA's lawyers have done none of that.

The wild guess as to why they didn't argue their client's psychosis would be if their client had admitted to his lawyers he was faking it. Now remember Dr. W did say at the hearings, along with mentioning RA's possible psychosis, that there were other times that she felt RA was not being truthful with her about his condition.

If RA did tell his attorneys he was in fact not being truthful about his mental health condition, his attorneys could not then legally tell the court that RA was suffering from psychosis when he confessed because their client had told them he was faking it.

Just an interesting possibility with room for plenty of discussion. Here's TMS episode link if anyone would like to listen...

The Delphi Murders: The Confessions Are In

In the Delphi murders case, Judge Frances Gull has ruled that Richard Allen's multiple confessions are admissible at trial. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here: https://www.murdersheetshop.com/ Come see us do our first live show in Kendallville, Indiana...

art19.com

 

[sunshineray]

Interesting.. what ever could you possibly mean ?
J/K I have guessed a bit. Dont tell me ..yet.

Lol it was a hypothetical question and I gave a hypothetical answer

 

[sunshineray]

RA isn’t innocent. The man doesn’t even have an alibi for the time of the murder. That's quite telling when you weigh up all the other things pointing towards his guilt.

Especially since he himself put himself on the trails from 1:30 to 3:30 AND his presence was corroborated by the girls who saw him and he admits to seeing. Quite telling indeed, MO

 

[FrostedGlass]

What would be the purpose? The prosecution already know what all the discovery is.

Or do you mean they are trying to keep their trial strategy on the DL?

How do you know that the prosecution knows all the defense has at this point. Remember their ex parte filings?

Yes, I do believe we have not seen all they have.

Discovery is still coming in from both sides:

08/30/2024	Order Granting Order granting Motion for Order to Shorten Discovery Response Period Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
08/30/2024	Order Granting Order granting Second Motion for Order to Shorten Discovery Response Period Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

 

[mrjitty]

How do you know that the prosecution knows all the defense has at this point. Remember their ex parte filings?

Yes, I do believe we have not seen all they have.

Discovery is still coming in from both sides:

08/30/2024	Order Granting Order granting Motion for Order to Shorten Discovery Response Period Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
08/30/2024	Order Granting Order granting Second Motion for Order to Shorten Discovery Response Period Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

Sure. 6 weeks before trial, they'll be discovering their expert evidence in both directions for example.

But as a general principal, we don't have trial by ambush. Neither side has bombshell evidence they are keeping secret until trial. It could be secret from the public of course.

Especially it wouldn't make sense to hold back critical evidence from the pre-trial hearings on critical topics like 3rd party suspects and confessions and then get adverse rulings from the Judge.

I am at a bit of a loss to understand what you are theorising here ...

Do you think the D has a new 3rd party suspect?

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

That would be after 1:30pm right? That's when RA is now saying he left...not 2:30pm

The P's timeline is from 1:30 to 4:00 (ish). They claim he was there during that time and that his car was there also. The only sightings of a vehicle parked at the CPS building were between 2 -2:30.
They need to prove his car was there. MOO

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[statt#1]

Sure. 6 weeks before trial, they'll be discovering their expert evidence in both directions for example.

But as a general principal, we don't have trial by ambush. Neither side has bombshell evidence they are keeping secret until trial. It could be secret from the public of course.

Especially it wouldn't make sense to hold back critical evidence from the pre-trial hearings on critical topics like 3rd party suspects and confessions and then get adverse rulings from the Judge.

I am at a bit of a loss to understand what you are theorising here ...

Do you think the D has a new 3rd party suspect?

MOO

Bolded by me....This is what I've been saying all along, and what I've been waiting for. I'm done with the lobbing of accusations, where's the other murderer(s) here?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Sure. 6 weeks before trial, they'll be discovering their expert evidence in both directions for example.

But as a general principal, we don't have trial by ambush. Neither side has bombshell evidence they are keeping secret until trial. It could be secret from the public of course.

Especially it wouldn't make sense to hold back critical evidence from the pre-trial hearings on critical topics like 3rd party suspects and confessions and then get adverse rulings from the Judge.

I am at a bit of a loss to understand what you are theorising here ...

Do you think the D has a new 3rd party suspect?

MOO

I have no idea what the B&R strategy is but they are savvy and have a pretty good idea of how this judge rules and why. Does that play into their pre-trial hearings? I don't know.

Theories went out the window a long time ago. I have none.

 

[Justice101]

Speaking of confessing to your attorney...

There was an interesting suggestion on the latest TMS Podcast, I just listened to entitled "The Confessions Are In". Well not even a suggestion more of a wild guess concerning the perplexing (to me) issue of why RA's lawyers did not try to argued psychosis, in battling the confessions being admitted. They've not to date had him evaluated for his competency to willingly and rationally confess. They've just said it was all these things, done to him, that effected him negatively and that's why we shouldn't believe ANY of his confessions. Throw them all out.

If they believe he in fact was suffering from psychosis, brought on by his conditions, that would seem a logical way to argue away his confessions from being admitted, have him evaluated to protect his rights and mental health. RA's lawyers have done none of that.

The wild guess as to why they didn't argue their client's psychosis would be if their client had admitted to his lawyers he was faking it. Now remember Dr. W did say at the hearings, along with mentioning RA's possible psychosis, that there were other times that she felt RA was not being truthful with her about his condition.

If RA did tell his attorneys he was in fact not being truthful about his mental health condition, his attorneys could not then legally tell the court that RA was suffering from psychosis when he confessed because their client had told them he was faking it.

Just an interesting possibility with room for plenty of discussion. Here's TMS episode link if anyone would like to listen...

The Delphi Murders: The Confessions Are In

In the Delphi murders case, Judge Frances Gull has ruled that Richard Allen's multiple confessions are admissible at trial. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here: https://www.murdersheetshop.com/ Come see us do our first live show in Kendallville, Indiana...

art19.com

Very interesting theory. I like the logic in that.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The gg may’ve been expensed long before RA’s arrest. It was an expense by LE related to the Delphi murder case, not RAs arrest. There would be no need to have RA tested for genetic genealogy once he was arrested since he was right there. Gg is when a suspect to a crime is unknown but their DNA is traced through their ancestry, such as the Golden Gate killer.

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

Indiana State Police is also tracking its spending on the Delphi murders case.
ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

• $264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
• $22,848 for investigator lodging
• $9,178 for a leased office for investigators
• $5,511 for investigator meals
• $8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

MOO
Thank you. Your reply was helpful, I think.

Here's a quote from your link; so all, some or none of the gg expenses came from 2022?
"More than three quarters of those costs were logged as part of the murder investigation prior to Allen’s arrest, with only $76,000 of ISP expenses coming since 2022.'

So.. genetic genealogy testing isn't superior, it's just another avenue to take after the first one dead-ends? What would be the purpose/benefit of sending it to Quantico at the end of 2018? (Would Leazenby really have given an exclusive interview to Radar?)

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told RadarOnline.com exclusively that they were hoping for a break in the case of Indiana teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German’s gruesome murders after they sent new evidence to the FBI headquarters in Quantico.

radaronline.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

I got the impression that he was managing his issues prior to being incarcerated. I definitely believe his confinement in Westville exacerbated them.

I'm puzzled by JG's response to his mental health. Does she refute what the prison psychologist found?
(snips from the article linked below)
"A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” "

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Or a violent anger outburst at being found out after all the years of hiding in plain sight.

RA was definitely able to live a normal, productive life by all accounts before the murders. Anxiety and depression are not a debilitating (if treated, and RA was on Medication for it) or murder inducing mental health issues.

Here's a 2024 Kaiser report showing:

<snipped & BBM>

The average depression and anxiety rate in the U.S. is 32.3%, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Depression Statistics In 2024.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Similar vehicles were described by witnesses. Keep in mind, at the time the witnesses seen what the did, they had no clue two girls would go missing and eventually found murdered. Would the witnesses really pay attention to every detail, before they learned of the crime, or just give general descriptions?

I'm not even talking about the different descriptions. I'm referring to the actual time of day they were spotted.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The P's timeline is from 1:30 to 4:00 (ish). They claim he was there during that time and that his car was there also. The only sightings of a vehicle parked at the CPS building were between 2 -2:30.
They need to prove his car was there. MOO

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

I believe that’s RA’s timeline too. He told LE that’s when he was there.
The totality of the evidence counts.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I can't wait to hear about the data regarding RA's phone. Was it in use at the time he claims he was checking a stock ticker on the trail? If not, why lie about that? When exactly was it in use that day?
Did RA have an apple iPhone? Did Apple health record the movement of his phone like it did Libby's?

I believe the murders occurred between 2:14:34 when the BG video ended and when the movement of Libby's phone stopped at 2:32 p.m.

Libby's phone was found under Abby's body. Abby didn't have blood flow patterns indicating she was moved after her fatal injury.

SC saw the disheveled man walking on 300 N shortly before 4:00 p.m.

What a coincidence that Dulin's report states that RA was on the trails 1:30 - 3:30 p.m. before most if not all of the above information was learned.

How is the defense going to explain that?

The part of your post that I highlighted always gets my attention. Has it been said why LE believes she stopped when her tracker did? Just because a phone tracker stops at a certain time is not always proof that the person carrying it has stopped. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I believe that’s RA’s timeline too. He told LE that’s when he was there.
The totality of the evidence counts.

DD's tip narrative puts him there between 1:30 and 3:30. He puts himself there earlier.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[sunshineray]

MOO
Thank you. Your reply was helpful, I think.

Here's a quote from your link; so all, some or none of the gg expenses came from 2022?
"More than three quarters of those costs were logged as part of the murder investigation prior to Allen’s arrest, with only $76,000 of ISP expenses coming since 2022.'

So.. genetic genealogy testing isn't superior, it's just another avenue to take after the first one dead-ends? What would be the purpose/benefit of sending it to Quantico at the end of 2018? (Would Leazenby really have given an exclusive interview to Radar?)

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told RadarOnline.com exclusively that they were hoping for a break in the case of Indiana teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German’s gruesome murders after they sent new evidence to the FBI headquarters in Quantico.

radaronline.com

Yes he did give that interview and considering that no interviews were really being given, I guess they could call it exclusive? I think the genetic genealogy was most likely the working backwards to narrow down the gene pool into probably ethnic groupings and then if they could go further, family trees. Even if they just narrowed it down to the ethnic groupings that could help eliminate many suspects...and include others. It's not as accurate as having a full DNA strand reading but I'd think it could be a helpful information tool nonetheless. MO

 

[sunshineray]

The P's timeline is from 1:30 to 4:00 (ish). They claim he was there during that time and that his car was there also. The only sightings of a vehicle parked at the CPS building were between 2 -2:30.
They need to prove his car was there. MOO

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

There could be other sightings not revealed yet. The PCA doesn't have to include everything. MO

 

[sunshineray]

The P's timeline is from 1:30 to 4:00 (ish). They claim he was there during that time and that his car was there also. The only sightings of a vehicle parked at the CPS building were between 2 -2:30.
They need to prove his car was there. MOO

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

He told them he was there from 1:30 to 3:30. There's that too, information given by RA to LE shortly after the murders.

 

[Willow Knight]

Just thinking.
There’s enough information in the public realm to paint a very disturbing picture of Westville under Galipeau and the influence of white supremest guards and inmates. JMO


JMO

Snip for focus. All My Opinion

There is zero proof of this, IMO, in fact there are no indications of guards being supremacist. I am unaware of any incidents where guards made statements or actions to show anything other than integrity. IMO, the employees of Westville have all shown to be respectful and concerned about the well being of Richard Allen.

Below are some statements made by the supervisor of Richard Allen's Pod.

* That I am a Correctional Officer at Westville Correctional Facility. That I have been assigned to WCU unit of Westville Correctional Facility since December 2022, currently assigned to B Pod. That I have been an acting supervisor in A Pod, where the Defendant is housed, since late February/early March of2023.

* That I am not part of a cult. That I am not part of a radical hate group.

* That I was also assigned periodically to check on the Defendant at his door with his 15-minute checks implemented by his mental health plan. That during the door checks, I would walk to the Defendant's cell, make sure he is okay and not at risk of self harm and then walk away.

* That I have never threatened the Defendant.

* That I have never had a one on one conversation with the Defendant where I tried to influence him in any way.

* That I have gone above and beyond to not use any kind of force on the Defendant, even though there have been times when use of force was justified by standard operating procedures.

* That there have been times when I have gone above and beyond in order to be gentler with the Defendant to prevent him from getting tased.

* That I have never had an excessive force complaint filed against me while I have been employed at Westville Correctional Facility. 23. That I have been employed with the Department ofCorrections since April 4th, 2022, and that this job is my passion and what I love doing.

* I swear, under penalty of perjury, as specified by IC 35-44-2-1 , that the foregoing representations are true and accurate to the best of my knowledge.

Link
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/10/Affidavit-2pdf.pdf

 

[sunshineray]

One other interesting thing mentioned in the last TMS podcast...Dr. F who quashed her subpoena said she gets $350 to give a deposition. So she's not a fact witness, she's an expert witness...for something. Family medicine practice an hour and a half to two hours away from Delphi in a fairly small community. It's the defense that wants to depose her but I think she's a prosecution witness?

The Delphi Murders: The Confessions Are In

In the Delphi murders case, Judge Frances Gull has ruled that Richard Allen's multiple confessions are admissible at trial. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here: https://www.murdersheetshop.com/ Come see us do our first live show in Kendallville, Indiana...

art19.com