Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[photographer4]

Gotcha ok that was on page 8:
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Oh! You beat me to it! Ty.

 

[Melted]

I think the context of those statements he made were other girls, not Abby and Libby. I believe that's why officers wanted to talk to RA's daughter's friends. If I'm remembering correctly.

Can you please site a source for this?

This is extremely irresponsible to post without a source in my opinion.

 

[photographer4]

Sure, but that only postpones the verdict. It's not an acquittal.

Not a lawyer - how many times can a mistrial happen before the state is forced to drop a case (any case, not just this particular case)?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

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Remind me - what was your question about this section?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Not a lawyer - how many times can a mistrial happen before the state is forced to drop a case (any case, not just this particular case)?

Not a lawyer either, but have learned from other cases. In the event of a hung jury, the state is free to try the case again if they choose to do so. They can do this as often as they like.

And there’s no statute of limitations on murder.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I could very easily see this happening just based on how many people I have seen online who do not believe RA is guilty at all, vs how many believe he is - based only on whatever has been made public to date (erroneously or otherwise) by either side! moo

Potential jurors should not have been following this case online. They should be questioned during voir dire. Sadly, the defense released a great deal of click-bait speculation, despite the gag order, so many of the potential jury pool may already be tainted.

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

"He was really concerned about the photos they were going to see

Harshman has eluded that there will be way more confessions by trial. He still had more to listen to. Keep in mind the 61 are detailed enough to count for trial. There were others. At this time Richard Allen is on trial.

At one time I said I would dread the day the thread was updated to remove the the girl's name. Now, I can't wait. The State of Indiana vs Richard M. Allen.

Exactly there are still calls, etc. from Richard Allen in real time as constant discovery coming out. I am interested in what he is currently stating.

 

[shonyakay]

Yes, but he didn't disclose / wasn't asked what the specifics of those "confessions" were or who says he made them? I think he only excluded the inmate companions from the list of people he was talking about, but I'm not 100% on that so pls do not quote me and MOOOO. We also weren't told whether the statements were made before or after he got disclosure. Imo possible he saw / read something in the disclosure only the killer would know and that may have formed the basis of his "confessions". To me, people saying he made incriminating statements simply is not good enough - I want to know what he said, to whom, when, in what exact context and what else was going on at the time (eg: how was his mental health? Meds? Had they just been changed or dose changed? Etc etc). I want very specific info, not just a he said things.... Surely that will come at trial.

LE were looking for sharp instruments but I
doubt that anyone, including law enforcement, even thought of a box cutter as the possible murder weapon.

Holeman confirmed that box cutters were issued to employees at RA's job.

If the State has performed tests in regards to the same type of box cutter that was issued at RA's work, and they match and/or are consistent with the girls' wounds, he's a goner.

That is something ONLY the killer would know.

I doubt box cutter is in any type of discovery in this case prio to RA's confessions. Imo.

 

[TTF14]

Why if you knew you had a uniquely short man would you not release that information to the public since height and weight are usually on the posters anyway? LE would know someone who understood angles and light might be able to figure it out from the video anyway although I have never heard anyone ever did figure out the height of the man in Liberty German's video.

Excellent questions. I said I would be shocked if the State had an expert on the stand to determine this because I 100% believe it can't be done.

IMO MOO

 

[shonyakay]

I firmly believe that NM was confirming that one of RA's confessions contained a reference to a box cutter during rebuttal of Dr.PM.

I am of the opinion that the murder weapon could have been a box cutter and before you dismiss this outright take a look at Google images of box cutter wounds. Warning: Some are very graphic.

 

[ClearAhead]

Can you please site a source for this?

Perhaps it’s this?

BBM

Richard Allen reportedly made ‘confessions’ to inmates, guards; attorneys say he was in ‘state of psychosis’

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Richard Allen reportedly made “incriminating statements to both inmates and guards” during his time in prison awaiting his double-murder trial. His attorneys want…

fox59.com

“Allen also reportedly expressed sorrow to another inmate over “molesting Abby, Libby and others which he specifically named.”

 

[ClearAhead]

I could very easily see this happening just based on how many people I have seen online who do not believe RA is guilty at all, vs how many believe he is - based only on whatever has been made public to date (erroneously or otherwise) by either side! moo

Respectfully pretrial online opinion is not a reliable indicator of how a Jury will vote once the trial has concluded and the evidence presented. It’s definitely too soon to predict a mistrial or hung jury.

 

[TTF14]

I could very easily see this happening just based on how many people I have seen online who do not believe RA is guilty at all, vs how many believe he is - based only on whatever has been made public to date (erroneously or otherwise) by either side! moo

Absolutely. I've never followed a case so divided, and usually the jury goes how public opinion goes. I predict a hung jury on this one. There simply isn't enough (that we know of yet, anyway) to convict. We'll be at this for years and years and years. I fear there will never be justice for Abby and Libby.

MOO IMO

 

[Yemelyan]

What is FGG?

Not sure if anyone already answered you, but "forensic genetic genealogy."

 

[ClearAhead]

Absolutely. I've never followed a case so divided, and usually the jury goes how public opinion goes. I predict a hung jury on this one. There simply isn't enough (that we know of yet, anyway) to convict. We'll be at this for years and years and years. I fear there will never be justice for Abby and Libby.

MOO IMO

What’s the reason that people online believe RA is innocent, aside from theories the judge has already ruled on which won’t be presented at trial?

It’s difficult to predict if his defense even has a plan any more.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

Not sure if anyone already answered you, but "forensic genetic genealogy."

Ty. I’ve not encountered the short form until now.

 

[photographer4]

What’s the reason that people online believe RA is innocent, aside from theories the judge has already ruled on which won’t be presented at trial?

It’s difficult to predict if his defense even has a plan any more.

MOO

It would be unlikely imo for any defense counsel to have relied solely on one specific strategy that wasn’t for sure going to be admissible per the judge. I have wondered if they threw some things out to draw attn away from actual bits of their strategy - may seem a silly idea but nothing would surprise me in this case.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, but he didn't disclose / wasn't asked what the specifics of those "confessions" were or who says he made them? I think he only excluded the inmate companions from the list of people he was talking about, but I'm not 100% on that so pls do not quote me and MOOOO. We also weren't told whether the statements were made before or after he got disclosure. Imo possible he saw / read something in the disclosure only the killer would know and that may have formed the basis of his "confessions". To me, people saying he made incriminating statements simply is not good enough - I want to know what he said, to whom, when, in what exact context and what else was going on at the time (eg: how was his mental health? Meds? Had they just been changed or dose changed? Etc etc). I want very specific info, not just a he said things.... Surely that will come at trial.

He said the 60+ were direct confessions of RA himself on the phone calls. That's how I understood it. He even mentions the other kinds of confessions, the not so specific kinds, not included in those direct ones. I have no reasons to doubt Detective Harshman's testimony. He doesn't sound like an exaggerator. He even spoke of the empathy he had for RA's family members hearing his words. I take him at his word that RA was specific. He was asked if RA said details only the person involved in the crime would potenially know and he answered, " I believe that's correct, yes". That's very convincing testimony. AJMO

 

[photographer4]

He said the 60+ were direct confessions of RA himself on the phone calls. That's how I understood it. He even mentions the other kinds of confessions, the not so specific kinds, not included in those direct ones. I have no reasons to doubt Detective Harshman's testimony. He doesn't sound like an exaggerator. He even spoke of the empathy he had for RA's family members hearing his words. I take him at his word that RA was specific. He was asked if RA said details only the person involved in the crime would potenially know and he answered, " I believe that's correct, yes". That's very convincing testimony. AJMO

I’d be more convinced if (when) someone finally asks if RA began to confess before or after he received disclosure, and when his mental health issues are better examined and detailed (eg: had he had medications? Which? When? Given by whom? Why? What amount? Side effects that are common? Rare but can happen etc). Moo. If we are going to lock someone up and throw away the key then hopefully it’s an airtight case that jurors and the victims family can feel ok with down the road. I can’t think of anything worse than possibly feeling reservations or wondering if the guy convicted is the right guy.

 

[ClearAhead]

I’d be more convinced if (when) someone finally asks if RA began to confess before or after he received disclosure, and when his mental health issues are better examined and detailed (eg: had he had medications? Which? When? Given by whom? Why? What amount? Side effects that are common? Rare but can happen etc). Moo. If we are going to lock someone up and throw away the key then hopefully it’s an airtight case that jurors and the victims family can feel ok with down the road. I can’t think of anything worse than possibly feeling reservations or wondering if the guy convicted is the right guy.

Wouldn’t this be excuses RA’s defense should’ve been presenting to the court if they had any merit? As the D didn’t, neither disclosure nor medications were a suspected cause for his confessions. (Of note, only mention of anything significant preceding his confessions was he had found religion.) The D blamed the confessions on his incarceration and suggested it should be considered coercion by the state. The Judge disagreed and ruled the confessions are in.

Judge rules accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's alleged confessions can be used as trial evidence

A judge ruled multiple confessions that Richard Allen allegedly made in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017 can be used as evidence at trial.

abc7chicago.com

“The statements given by the defendant were unsolicited by any of the individuals and were voluntarily given without coercion or interrogation," Special Judge Fran Gull wrote in the ruling. "The evidence shows he specifically sought out the Warden by written communication he initiated, and verbal statements he offered to the guards, inmates, mental health professionals, and medical personnel."