Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[iamshadow21]

@Vern or @steeltowngirl (seems you access) - but I saw an article (could not access) entitled where the Judge denied the jury viewing - is that in the docket yet? TIA!
or did I miss a post on that...

Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

A judge has ruled that the jury in the Delphi Murders trial will not visit the crime scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were killed in 2017.

www.starcitytv.com

 

[ClearAhead]

Because he had to get there to get the lay of the land and see who was about. He looked completely harmless standing out on platform one watching the fish.

He couldn’t follow them because it was too risky if other people were about, and they could change routes or ask for help. The Bridge was the perfect opportunity, as he knew they would be completely alone and defenseless without any chance of help.

Moo

RA was already familiar with the lay of the land as he lived close to it for years. It was known to be a place where young people frequented, also a day off from school so it wouldn’t have been at all unusual to find teens there if one was on the lookout.

Father of Libby’s mom -

Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens: I know she fought killer

Dennis Bridge, 59, lost granddaughter Liberty German 14, when she and friend Abigail Williams were murdered on a hike outside Delphi, Indiana. He tells DailyMail.com she would have 'put up a fight'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Dennis Bridge said the local area was a place where 'kids play until sunset and then they come home' and that he believed the Monon High Bridge was a 'hangout'.

From the same article, sadly we now know this to be true
The grandfather of one of the teens found murdered in rural Indiana believes his 'strong-willed girl' put up a fight for her life.

 

[steeltowngirl]

@Vern or @steeltowngirl (seems you access) - but I saw an article (could not access) entitled where the Judge denied the jury viewing - is that in the docket yet? TIA!
or did I miss a post on that...

Hi @Niner
I can only see what’s publicly visible on Indiana Case search.

An Order of denial could be this order, but I am unsure.

Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 9/30/2024 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;Stacey Lynn Diener;Jennifer Jones Auger;James David Luttrull​

[td]

10/01/2024​

[/td]​

 

[tlcya]

Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

A judge has ruled that the jury in the Delphi Murders trial will not visit the crime scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were killed in 2017.

www.starcitytv.com

thank you for this. wow. I get the reasoning that probably went into this decision but am sort of surprised since she previously had said she would wait to rule on it.

 

[AugustWest]

@Vern or @steeltowngirl (seems you access) - but I saw an article (could not access) entitled where the Judge denied the jury viewing - is that in the docket yet? TIA!
or did I miss a post on that...

@Niner I'm almost 100% positive that article is incorrect. As @tlcya has stated, Judge Gull has taken that issue under advisement.

 

[tlcya]

@Niner I'm almost 100% positive that article is incorrect. As @tlcya has stated, Judge Gull has taken that issue under advisement.

Special Judge Fran Gull took the defense motion under advisement pending the state’s response and a hearing to be conducted once jury selection wraps up.
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/delp...efense-request-to-take-jurors-to-crime-scene/

In a recent decision for the upcoming Delphi Murders trial, the judge has denied a request from the defense to allow the jury to visit the scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered in 2017.
Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

both articles were published October 1.

I agree, I think Star City is wrong.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Special Judge Fran Gull took the defense motion under advisement pending the state’s response and a hearing to be conducted once jury selection wraps up.
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/delp...efense-request-to-take-jurors-to-crime-scene/

In a recent decision for the upcoming Delphi Murders trial, the judge has denied a request from the defense to allow the jury to visit the scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered in 2017.
Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

both articles were published October 1.

I agree, I think Star City is wrong.

I emailed Star City to clarify or provide a source. I will report back if they respond.

 

[somequestions]

A Royal Flush.

Or the prosecution has a busted straight.

I really do not think LE had much more on Richard Allen when they arrested him than what you read in the PCA. They do have one piece of evidence, the unspent cartridge that toolmark analysis places his gun at the crime scene.

I still think a conviction is likely though if the jury finds the confessions genuine. I think it will be difficult for a jury that will probably have mothers and fathers on it to find him not guilty. The number one confession will be Richard Allen admitting to being the bridge guy from Liberty German's phone video, if he confessed to that.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

You could very well be correct SSN about it being a random act by RA. KAK is a disgusting CSAM operator and a lying liar who lies, with all the reasons in the world to play games with LE in hopes of getting a deal, or a reduction in sentencing.

LE obviously looked heavily into him and didn't make a direct connection because he got no breaks or sentence reduction and his first Appeal was denied, unless there is bombshell info. by the State we don't know of yet.

I'm still of the belief somehow and someway, RA knew L&A were going to be there that day. I try and talk myself out of it daily lol, but it just seems too coincidental. IDK, that is one of the biggest questions I have, which hopefully we will find out at trial.

If RA just randomly set out that day looking for a victim, stumbled onto Abby and Libby and killed them in such a brutal fashion makes it even scarier to me. That and my 'gut instinct' thing keeps me just on the side of it being planned ahead of time.

Regardless, I believe BG=RA=Killer of Abby and Libby and I hope we find out how that actually happened, not the CS details, but whether RA had previous communication with one of them or just followed them randomly.

JMO

Yes.
I hope we get a definitive answer to that.
Of course, if RA would, or be allowed to, plead guilty by his defense team, he could put a quick end to all of our speculation

 

[steeltowngirl]

Prior bad acts, which are basically what you are referring to, are inadmissible. Not only for relevance, but there is another rule on the matter in evidentiary law. See Rule 404:

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

The only way that type of evidence is admissible is if, first, a defendant introduces evidence of his/her good character. Then, a prosecution could use evidence of prior bad acts to rebut/impeach the evidence of a defendant's good character. This is what most posters here would be familiar with as a defendant "opening the door."

I am posting this information not only for your benefit, but for others, so they understand why prior convictions and the like are not likely to be used at trial.

Is it unlikely / inadmissible for defense to repeat in court what they stated right after his arrest?

• Rick is a 50-year-old man who has never been arrested nor accused of any crime in his entire life. He is innocent and completely confused as to why he has been charged with these crimes.

'Rick is innocent': Allen's attorneys release statement questioning evidence

The attorneys representing Richard Allen have released a statement in reaction to the release of the probable cause affidavit earlier this week.

www.wrtv.com

 

[Niner]

@Niner are you talking about the jury field trip? I don't believe Judge Gull has ruled on the jury viewing crime scene. The prosecution has objected but I thought she would rule on that after the jury is seated. Unless I missed a filing or docket entry I think that is still up in the air.

Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

A judge has ruled that the jury in the Delphi Murders trial will not visit the crime scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were killed in 2017.

www.starcitytv.com

Special Judge Fran Gull took the defense motion under advisement pending the state’s response and a hearing to be conducted once jury selection wraps up.
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/delp...efense-request-to-take-jurors-to-crime-scene/

In a recent decision for the upcoming Delphi Murders trial, the judge has denied a request from the defense to allow the jury to visit the scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered in 2017.
Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

both articles were published October 1.

I agree, I think Star City is wrong.

Thank you all for the replies! I shall wait & see what @steeltowngirl from the newspaper. And the article @iamshadow21 posted is the one I saw & couldn't access. That is why I asked!

 

[tlcya]

as far as the DV call from 2015, as far as we know that contact with LE at his home did not result in any charges whatsoever so IMO the defense attorney did not lie in his statement after the arrest.

The only reason I could see that prior incident coming in at trial is if the defense themselves were to introduce it and why would they? It is irrelevant to this case. JMO. I don't see it coming up at trial.

 

[AugustWest]

Is it unlikely / inadmissible for defense to repeat in court what they stated right after his arrest?

• Rick is a 50-year-old man who has never been arrested nor accused of any crime in his entire life. He is innocent and completely confused as to why he has been charged with these crimes.

'Rick is innocent': Allen's attorneys release statement questioning evidence

The attorneys representing Richard Allen have released a statement in reaction to the release of the probable cause affidavit earlier this week.

www.wrtv.com

Yes, I think it is unlikely they will repeat that in court. That would arguably open the door.

Even if they did open the door, that still does not negate the need for evidence to be relevant. An event happening in 2015 (or anytime prior) doesn't have any relevance to whether or not RA killed A & L.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Yes, I think it is unlikely they will repeat that in court. That would arguably open the door.

Even if they did open the door, that still does not negate the need for evidence to be relevant. An event happening in 2015 (or anytime prior) doesn't have any relevance to whether or not RA killed A & L.

Just to be clear, you are only referring to legal relevance in court, correct?

 

[AugustWest]

Just to be clear, you are only referring to legal relevance in court, correct?

I am, but how do you feel a domestic dispute in 2015 has any relevance, legal or otherwise, to an event that occurs in 2017? It wouldn't have relevance even in the context of a contemporary definition:

Definition of RELEVANT

having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand; affording evidence tending to prove or disprove the matter at issue or under discussion; having social relevance… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

I am, but how do you feel a domestic dispute in 2015 has any relevance, legal or otherwise, to an event that occurs in 2017? It wouldn't have relevance even in the context of a contemporary definition:

Definition of RELEVANT

having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand; affording evidence tending to prove or disprove the matter at issue or under discussion; having social relevance… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Hypothetically, if a domestic dispute included violence just 2 years prior to a violent murder, I would find it relevant. My own personal opinion, not in legal terms.

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

Although it’s hard to totally put KAK’s involvement to rest on this case after everything we kept hearing about him, I agree with what you are saying.
I think things we considered suspicious at the time, was not KAK trying to cover up his involvement in the girls’ murders but him trying to cover up his CSAM operation, since he knew A/shots had been talking with Libby.
His commenting as A/shots to another young teen, that he was supposed to meet up with Libby was just him playing his A/shots role. He was probably thinking by playing the comforting guy, he could manipulate these children even more.
KAK also is a liar levels above our comprehension. LE finally nailed him on the CSAM charges and were suspicious of his connection to the murders. They interrogated him hard. KAK realized he could walk a line of lies with LE because they were so desperate. He could play them for preferential treatment, and since he has no conscious, doing this on the back of two dead children didn’t matter at all to him. He played that game until someone finally ratted out RA.
I think Libby was handled more brutally during the murders simply because she was the least cooperative of the victims.
It took awhile for me to come around to it, but I believe these two beautiful girls were murdered by a tiny disgusting man for no other reason than to fulfill his sick selfish fantasies. No one else helped him.

My opinion, of which there have been many.
My opinion, until further notice.

Couldn't have said it any better. I totally agree with you.

 

[shonyakay]

Judge denies jury visit to crime scene in Delphi Murders trial

A judge has ruled that the jury in the Delphi Murders trial will not visit the crime scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were killed in 2017.

www.starcitytv.com

I seen this article as well. I didn't post it because it just didn't look legit to me. No where else is this being stated.

It may be legit but I have my suspicions.

 

[shonyakay]

Or the prosecution has a busted straight.

I really do not think LE had much more on Richard Allen when they arrested him than what you read in the PCA. They do have one piece of evidence, the unspent cartridge that toolmark analysis places his gun at the crime scene.

I still think a conviction is likely though if the jury finds the confessions genuine. I think it will be difficult for a jury that will probably have mothers and fathers on it to find him not guilty. The number one confession will be Richard Allen admitting to being the bridge guy from Liberty German's phone video, if he confessed to that.

CSI vehicles were said to be out at people's homes in the beginning of this case.

There's definitely something there.
DNA? Fibers? Hairs?

 

[Bbgiraffe]

CSI vehicles were said to be out at people's in the beginning of this case.

There's definitely something there.
DNA? Fibers? Hairs?

I thought I read in a news report that they used Blue Star or luminol in his trunk and removed a piece of carpet. LE told us they had DNA from the beginning I think Tobe Leazenby said they have DNA from an unsuspected or unconventional source that's why I thought people were speculating about pet hair and other things. I could be misrememebering though that was at the very beginning. Moo.