AB's Involvement ptII

[Linda7NJ]

That would be correct, sadly. Interesting how AB stayed in that house for quite some time AFTER this horror and never-a-once saw any blood on any walls, tissue stuck to the wall, bloody gloves under the bathroom sink, never took a bath/shower, oh and the clothes that Zahra went missing in.. where right there at home.. hearing aids in jewelry boxes, but he never noticed any of those things.

My own husband works all the time, he wouldn't notice anything and he certainly wouldn't be going through my jewerly box. As long as the shower looked reasonably clean, he would simply take a shower, and go to bed. He does look in on our son everynight. But sometimes he doesn't actually SEE him cause my kid loved to sleep in the crack between the wall and his queen size bed, and or completely under the covers.

I don't believe there was visable blood splatter all over the walls and the tub and shower all bloody.

I think he's in this right up to his eyeballs in all aspects of the crime. I am just saying, right now and at this point, it is possible he didn't know anything about it based on what we know.

I so hope my gut is wrong and he's actaully and factually innocent. I won't be holding my breath though

 

[tehcloser]

You know waiting for justice is getting old. So many cases, the writing is on the damn wall, but because of the way the laws are written we have this mess. This child was murdered and chopped up and still no one is even charged with anything to do with it. Don't tell me the yada yada about dotting I's and crossing T's. Enough is enough already. If the laws are that screwed up, they need changing. Too many people are getting away with killing their children. BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

IF Adam did not know, I find myself wondering why 3 teenage girls across the street in the trailer park did, why a teacher or two did, why the neighbors at different locations did, why AF did, or BS or BB and AY and the list goes on. For some reason AB was oblivious...no way in my book. I think the IF can be removed quite easily.

I agree Raisin but I remember reading that AB was very gullible and naive. It could be his nature and it could be him not having common sense? I agree, how did he not know of the abuse Zahra was suffering at the hands of this subhuman? Didn't he see a personality change in Zahra? Or was it EF had him believing it was puberty she was going through??? Seems she was able to keep Zahra isolated right under his nose. I'd have made sure to see my child each and every day I returned from work. If I worked away from home, I'd make damn sure I spoke to my child on a nightly basis...He may be just too trusting...JMHO

AY tried to tell him he was her ex husband but didn't believe him until LE showed him the documents.

Could AB have been head over heels in love with this evil, wicked woman that he lost all common sense? It's been said EF (Elisa Fairchild now) when she broke her hand over Zahra's prosthetic leg told whoever it was with her, not to tell AB....could she have been that manipulative, that controlling, that conniving that AB just believed everything that came out of her mouth? Could his lifestyle in Oz be a different level than the US???

IDK....I too am lost for reasons why he didn't know what was going on around him...JMHO


Justice for Zahra

 

[salvarenga]

I agree Raisin but I remember reading that AB was very gullible and naive. It could be his nature and it could be him not having common sense? I agree, how did he not know of the abuse Zahra was suffering at the hands of this subhuman? Didn't he see a personality change in Zahra? Or was it EF had him believing it was puberty she was going through??? Seems she was able to keep Zahra isolated right under his nose. I'd have made sure to see my child each and every day I returned from work. If I worked away from home, I'd make damn sure I spoke to my child on a nightly basis...He may be just too trusting...JMHO

AY tried to tell him he was her ex husband but didn't believe him until LE showed him the documents.

Could AB have been head over heels in love with this evil, wicked woman that he lost all common sense? It's been said EF (Elisa Fairchild now) when she broke her hand over Zahra's prosthetic leg told whoever it was with her, not to tell AB....could she have been that manipulative, that controlling, that conniving that AB just believed everything that came out of her mouth? Could his lifestyle in Oz be a different level than the US???

IDK....I too am lost for reasons why he didn't know what was going on around him...JMHO


Justice for Zahra

No offense to you at all Live...I am just jumping off of your post and this is more of a rant......

I am sick and tired of people making excuses for these monsters. If you are responsible enough to take part in creating a child, you darn well should be responsible about knowing what's going on AT ALL times in your child's life and especially when they are younger and need you THE MOST. He figured out how to make a baby so should have been responsible enough to figure out how to take care of his child.

I will not make any excuse for this man (and I use that term loosely). IMO, I don't care if he murdered her, dismembered her, had no clue or whatever. HE PUT HER IN THAT SITUATION. HE FAILED HER and for that alone even Hell is too good for him. :furious:

 

[essies]

IF Adam did not know, I find myself wondering why 3 teenage girls across the street in the trailer park did, why a teacher or two did, why the neighbors at different locations did, why AF did, or BS or BB and AY and the list goes on. For some reason AB was oblivious...no way in my book. I think the IF can be removed quite easily.

ITA RC!!
One thing about getting older is that you learn that you live and die by the choices you make. And even if you don't make a choice-that's still making a decision! If AB was the kind of man who was so proud (I think it was pride not stupidity) that he refused to admit he made a gigantic mistake by marrying EB and making her his wife and Z's step-mother even when presented with the evidence by AY-then that choice (and others that followed) signed Z's fate.
Perhaps AB felt smothered by life with his mother in Australia and running to the US with his new wife was his Declaration of Independence. In reality-he was only trading one keeper for another-but he is not going to admit that.
AY and the family try to show him that his marriage isn't legal-but he's not going to admit he was bamboozled.
Zahra may have tried to reach out to him and tell him what was going on while he was at work-but how receptive did he take her stories? Easier to believe she is just being "broody" because of "puberty"? Yeah-that's easier to swallow than the truth!
Why believe the truth when the lie is what you want to believe. Just like in Caylee's case and many others on the board-circumstances are different in each case but the outcome is the same-the child becomes collateral damage!!:furious:

 

[Linda7NJ]

You know what I wonder along with so many other things...IF Adam did not know what EB was doing to Zahra..why did that baby girl not feel that she could tell her daddy? Was she afraid he wouldn't believe her ..or was she afraid that he wouldn't do anything about it...Just So Incredibly SAD..

It's INCREDIBLY easy to get a child to keep their mouth shut about all kinds ofabuse. Even the very best involved parents, more often than not, are kept in the dark. How do you think child molesters get away with it for so long?

 

[salvarenga]

You know waiting for justice is getting old. So many cases, the writing is on the damn wall, but because of the way the laws are written we have this mess. This child was murdered and chopped up and still no one is even charged with anything to do with it. Don't tell me the yada yada about dotting I's and crossing T's. Enough is enough already. If the laws are that screwed up, they need changing. Too many people are getting away with killing their children. BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Seriously teh....

The more I think about what kind of monster it would take to stand there and chop up a child the more my blood boils. I mean WHO DOES THAT? She was dead for Christ's sake. Why couldn't they just leave her intact? What did they hope to accomplish by chopping her up? Like someone stumbling across a random arm or leg would not cause any normal human being to call the cops and start an investigation?

I just don't get it...........

 

[Linda7NJ]

IF Adam did not know, I find myself wondering why 3 teenage girls across the street in the trailer park did, why a teacher or two did, why the neighbors at different locations did, why AF did, or BS or BB and AY and the list goes on. For some reason AB was oblivious...no way in my book. I think the IF can be removed quite easily.

Did any one of those people tell HIM?

 

[TrialAddict]

Reasons, are not excuses

 

[salvarenga]

Did any one of those people tell HIM?

It's not anyone else's responsibility to tell him what is going on with his OWN child. He should know. It's his duty and responsibility as her parent to know what is/was going on with her at all times.

 

[tehcloser]

Did any one of those people tell HIM?

Tell HIM? He knew he had a daughter didn't he? We HAVE to quit making excuses for these people! Children are not disposable. They are not just our responsibility when we "feel' like it. This world is getting more screwed up by the day............:banghead:

 

[Aedrys]

No offense to you at all Live...I am just jumping off of your post and this is more of a rant......

I am sick and tired of people making excuses for these monsters. If you are responsible enough to take part in creating a child, you darn well should be responsible about knowing what's going on AT ALL times in your child's life and especially when they are younger and need you THE MOST. He figured out how to make a baby so should have been responsible enough to figure out how to take care of his child.

I will not make any excuse for this man (and I use that term loosely). IMO, I don't care if he murdered her, dismembered her, had no clue or whatever. HE PUT HER IN THAT SITUATION. HE FAILED HER and for that alone even Hell is too good for him. :furious:

ITA. My husband tends to be rather clueless about things. I have to point out when I get my haircut, or if I want him to notice I did the dishes. He often forgets to tell me things that his family has told him that I need to know. He can get very much so into his video games and become oblivious to the world around him. He even forgets to let the dog in sometimes, and she stays outside for a few hours until I let her in. It's irritating, yes, but I love him anyway.

But you know what, he notices his daughter. If there is anything wrong, he addresses it. He notices if I get too much onto her and tells me to have more patience. He notices when she's not doing her homework and makes her do it. If there is a problem with her, he takes notice and does something about it. I guess what I'm saying is, if I were abusing her, or someone else was, he would notice and if it was me, probably divorce me. If it was someone else, there's no telling what he would do. He might try to deny that her abandonment issues aren't as bad as they are, but he knows she's been suffering since her mom left her at age 5. She's now seeing a child psychologist for it, and he's paying for each session. I guess what I am saying is, as clueless as he is about other things, he takes the time to notice his daughter and be a great daddy to her. He protects her and loves her no matter what. And he would never let anyone harm her, NEVER.

I am not buying that AB is just some dumb, clueless father. I am sick of hearing that. If he loved that child so much, he should have noticed her, period. He should have taken care of her, period. He should have noticed his new wife not being a great stepmother and prevented her from hurting his child, PERIOD. He should not have allowed negative and evil things to come into his daughter's life and lead her to death, PERIOD.

There is just no excuse for a parent not noticing their children, not taking care of them, and letting evil things happen to him. I don't care how clueless and dumb and gullible he is, he is a bad parent and I can't believe he didn't know ANYTHING about this. He is not innocent here even if he didn't do the murder or dismemberment - something that didn't even upset him, btw. If he loved her so much, why didn't anything upset him about her death until rape allegations that were proven false? He couldn't even have emotion for her being missing in a 911 call. None of this makes any sense for a good father that loves and takes care of their children. There is no excuse for him dragging her across the world to be abused and killed and dismembered and whatever else happened to her. NONE.

He's guilty, and there's no excuses for his epic failure to love and protect his own flesh and blood.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's not anyone else's responsibility to tell him what is going on with his OWN child. He should know. It's his duty and responsibility as her parent to know what is/was going on with her at all times.

And just how is that supposed to work if he's working all the time and his daughter doesn't tell?

I really don't like being put in the position of defending Adam at all because I feel he was involved. But I am going to defend the atmosphere.

My husband works all the time, the day to day child rearing is left up to me and always has been. I too am a stay at home mom. My husband trusts me. It would be very easy to abuse my child on a daily basis and keep my own husband in the dark. Sometimes a week or two can go by without even an opportunity for my son and his dad to talk. He's not a bad dad, he's terrific, loving and caring.

 

[Aedrys]

And just how is that supposed to work if he's working all the time and his daughter doesn't tell?

I really don't like being put in the position of defending Adam at all because I feel he was involved. But I am going to defend the atmosphere.

My husband works all the time, the day to day child rearing is left up to me and always has been. I too am a stay at home mom. My husband trusts me. It would be very easy to abuse my child on a daily basis and keep my own husband in the dark. Sometimes a week or two can go by without even an opportunity for my son and his dad to talk. He's not a bad dad, he's terrific, loving and caring.

There are a lot of people who work long hours and their kids don't end up abused, killed, and dismembered, thank goodness. Ignorance just doesn't work here. He didn't notice, and the stepmother was the evil one who was supposed to take care of her and didn't. She wasn't like other moms that actually care for and love their children so that hard working dads who can't be home don't have to worry about their children's safety. He met her. He married her, and now she has killed his child. His choices directly led to Zahra's death. He gets no free pass for working long hours and not noticing. To say he's innocent because he wasn't around to notice is a slap to the face to all the other parents who work hard for long hours but have kids that are alive and healthy.

And with calling, emailing, and texting, he can talk her. Communication is such an easy thing to do in today's world with the technology out there. Basically, he can notice if he wants to. AB didn't seem to care or want to notice his daughter, which is just sick and sad. There are ways to notice and be involved in a kid's life even if a parent can't be there all of the time. It's called taking the effort to notice and love and protect our children. There just isn't any excuse for AB not noticing his daughter. He does not get off the hook for being a negligent parent.

 

[Linda7NJ]

There are a lot of people who work long hours and their kids don't end up abused, killed and dismembered, thank goodness. Ignorance just doesn't work here. He didn't notice, and the stepmother was the evil one who was supposed to take care of her and didn't. She wasn't like other moms that actually care for and love their children so that hard working dads who can't be home don't have to worry about their children's safety. He met her. He married her, and now she has killed his child. His choices directly led to Zahra's death. He gets no free pass for working long hours and not noticing. To say he's innocent because he wasn't around to notice is a slap to the face to all the other parents who work hard for long hours but have kids that are alive and healthy.

And with emailing and texting, he can talk her. He can notice if he wants to. AB didn't seem to care or want to notice his daughter, which is just sick and sad. There are ways to notice and be involved in a kid's life even if a parent can't be there all of the time. It's called taking the effort to notice and love and protect our children. There just isn't any excuse for AB noticing his daughter. He does not get off the hook for being a negligent parent.

Failing to notice what exactly? A black eye? Shoot, my own son has had two, along with several broken bones, bumps and almost constant bruises. I never cause a single one. Even if asked an abused child will stick to the fabricated story for fear of what will happen. THOUSANDS of children are abused everyday by a PARENT, and the other parent often haS NO IDEA.

Sure even my own son and his dad text. So what? That doesn't mean anything or relevance of abuse would ever be shared.

I have a close friend who is also a terrific loving stay at home mom. She learned after 15 years of marriage her husband had been sexually abusing their daughter for 6 years and had begun grooming a younger one. He managed to do this while she went food shopping, or other general errands! She only found out after they had split up for something else and she had told the children she wasn't ever allowing him to come back. Only then did the older one begin disclosing. Tell me exactly what she was supposed to be noticing?

So unless a child is with you 24/7 don't ever assume something bad can't or never happen to your child at the hands of a trusted adult.

 

[Aedrys]

Failing to notice what exactly? A black eye? Shoot, my own son has had two, along with several broken bones, bumps and almost constant bruises. I never cause a single one. Even if asked an abused child will stick to the fabricated story for fear of what will happen. THOUSANDS of children are abused everyday by a PARENT, and the other parent often haS NO IDEA.

Sure even my own son and his dad text. So what? That doesn't mean anything or relevance of abuse would ever be shared.

I have a close friend who is also a terrific loving stay at home mom. She learned after 15 years of marriage her husband had been sexually abusing their daughter for 6 years and had begun grooming a younger one. He managed to do this while she went food shopping, or other general errands! She only found out after they had split up for something else and she had told the children she wasn't ever allowing him to come back. Only then did the older one begin disclosing. Tell me exactly what she was supposed to be noticing?

So unless a child is with you 24/7 don't ever assume something bad can't or never happen to your child at the hands of a trusted adult.

BBM. I don't assume that. Never did I say anywhere that I assume that. But I make darn sure to look out for my stepdaughter and be aware as I can of her life and what is going on with her and so does my husband. Every good parent does that. Working long hours shouldn't negate that. And part of protecting children is judgment. He brought this evil woman into her life. He should have had better judgment in picking a stepmother for his daughter. I'm sorry, but he gets no pass from me in this case because he didn't notice. Honestly, to me, he knew about it and took part in it. But even if it comes out that he didn't know, that just doesn't cut it for me. I mean, if not noticing is a valid excuse, then a lot more people have an excuse to get away with murder. Ignorance of the law doesn't work in court. Ignorance of a person's own children shouldn't work as an advantage for them not taking caring of their children or not having knowledge that their children were hurt or killed by people they brought into their children's lives. Parents are responsible for their children whether they notice them or not.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Please bring the heat level down a few notches. Feel free to disagree, but please don't get too into it. People are allowed to disagree with you. If nothing looks like it is going to be resolved, agree to disagree and move away.

We are not going to resolve the theoretical culpability of non-abusing parents in an abusive situation here, I think.

 

[summermood32]

Sharing my story so you might be able to see things in a different light. My Dad worked two jobs I barely saw my dad. My mom had migraines and health issues that kept her in bed. I was abused by older kids in my neighborhood. I'm 40 now. I do however blame my parents some for the supervision. It is hard on me because one of the persons is my brothers best friend now and every time I see him it makes me sick. I said nothing i kept inside I was ashamed I did things for candy! Where did it happen across the street in a house that was vacant in a shed. Do I have emotional problems yes has it effected me as an adult yes. What do you learn you were a child and you didnt no any better! How did I act (Warning sign) I acted out!! I was mean!! & I didnt tell my parents because I was embaresed and did not no anything different. So it could be she was ashamed to tell! and we need a spell checker on ws. So forgive me for the miss spellings.

 

[NancyA]

And just how is that supposed to work if he's working all the time and his daughter doesn't tell?

I really don't like being put in the position of defending Adam at all because I feel he was involved. But I am going to defend the atmosphere.

My husband works all the time, the day to day child rearing is left up to me and always has been. I too am a stay at home mom. My husband trusts me. It would be very easy to abuse my child on a daily basis and keep my own husband in the dark. Sometimes a week or two can go by without even an opportunity for my son and his dad to talk. He's not a bad dad, he's terrific, loving and caring.

I’ll bet your husband can still tell people if they ask when was the last time he 100% saw his son. My point being this isn’t about casting aspersions on parents who have to work long or anti-social hours that cuts out time spent with their kids (and no one is disputing that often abused children don’t tell because of threats or because they are made to feel it’s their fault) BUT about AB's particular case. I have seen nothing to say AB was at all involved or even interested in anything to do with Zahra’s care, education or health - period. It has nothing to do with how many hours he worked IMO - he was just happy to abdicate his parental responsibilities to whomsoever happened to be at hand - first his mother and then EB.

But back to the hours worked,why is it so commonly believed that AB did indeed work all these long hours? Admittedly I haven't followed every link but it seems odd to me that NOWHERE have I seen anything to prove that he actually DID work all that many hours . Has anyone seen any timecards or jobsheets or ANYTHING from his employers to say he worked all that many hours? Anyone got any proof that he worked out of town overnight or was away for several days at a time? Any customers of the company he worked for come forward to say he was at their property quoting a job that Saturday morning when he ‘just got back from checking out a job’ oops I mean ‘was out working in the yard’ oops I mean ‘got up’?

Right now I'm still convinced he guilty (morally at least) of the gross negligence of his daughter and totally involved in the cover up. One thing I would like to have confirmed is where he was on that Friday evening before the fire? At the Octoberfest with EB? If there are credible witnesses that can put them at the Octoberfest without Zahra then game over for AB afaic – no one goes to the fair and leaves their kid behind alone if she’s supposedly been sick with a stomach virus, broody or not broody.

 

[Aedrys]

I’ll bet your husband can still tell people if they ask when was the last time he 100% saw his son. My point being this isn’t about casting aspersions on parents who have to work long or anti-social hours that cuts out time spent with their kids (and no one is disputing that often abused children don’t tell because of threats or because they are made to feel it’s their fault) BUT about AB's particular case. I have seen nothing to say AB was at all involved or even interested in anything to do with Zahra’s care, education or health - period. It has nothing to do with how many hours he worked IMO - he was just happy to abdicate his parental responsibilities to whomsoever happened to be at hand - first his mother and then EB.

But back to the hours worked,why is it so commonly believed that AB did indeed work all these long hours? Admittedly I haven't followed every link but it seems odd to me that NOWHERE have I seen anything to prove that he actually DID work all that many hours . Has anyone seen any timecards or jobsheets or ANYTHING from his employers to say he worked all that many hours? Anyone got any proof that he worked out of town overnight or was away for several days at a time? Any customers of the company he worked for come forward to say he was at their property quoting a job that Saturday morning when he ‘just got back from checking out a job’ oops I mean ‘was out working in the yard’ oops I mean ‘got up’?

Right now I'm still convinced he guilty (morally at least) of the gross negligence of his daughter and totally involved in the cover up. One thing I would like to have confirmed is where he was on that Friday evening before the fire? At the Octoberfest with EB? If there are credible witnesses that can put them at the Octoberfest without Zahra then game over for AB afaic – no one goes to the fair and leaves their kid behind alone if she’s supposedly been sick with a stomach virus, broody or not broody.

ITA! Thank you so much for this clarification. I guess I'm so emotional about this case, I wasn't getting out properly what I really wanted to say. This post is what I am talking about! I'm so grateful for cooler heads than mine on this forum!