Active Search for Evidence taking Place Around Portugese Resort

[ThoughtFox]

Lots of pictures on the BBC now:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27679130

From that article:

While Monday, the first day police were on the site in the west of Praia da Luz, was very much about surveillance and setting out areas of interest, now the work has begun in earnest.

On Tuesday morning yellow cones and tape were used to mark out points of interest within the 15 acres of scrubland, and two officers, on their hands and knees and wearing gloves, carried out a detailed search of one small area.

This has been varied, from fingertip searches by officers on their hands and knees, to the use of South Wales Police sniffer dogs and strimmers that were delivered to clear parts of the overgrown land.

Police tape, being used not only to cordon off the site but mark out sections of the 15-acre plot, flutters in the breeze everywhere you look.

The police contingent has been bolstered with more officers - including those on horseback - on the scene.

The press pack has also increased, their activities being closely watched by the police, who have been taking photographs of journalists as they carry out their work. It really is a case of watching them, watching you. They are determined the investigation is not impeded in any way by the media, and making sure they do not cross the police tape.

When one person asks an officer entering the site how the search is going, there is no reply.

 

[chlban]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27659905


I hate the attitude in the above link, I bet he wouldn't feel that way if it was his loved one. SY has made it quite clear the M's are not suspects.

If Madeleine is found that close it will show how PJ botched the case from the beginning. Can you imagine how they are going to look to the world if she is found 300 meters away? PJ will make the keystone cops look like professionals.[/QUOTE]

BBM. Maybe, but since Scotland Yard currently looks exactly like the Keystone Cops, maybe SY will be grateful.

This is such a farce. I am sure glad I am not a Brittish taxpayer.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't think it is ever a farce to search for a child who is missing. Ever.


I wonder if they have that ground sonar that shows disturbances in the soil?

 

[ThoughtFox]

Really good in-depth video from NBC - aerial views of the search area, which almost looks like a mountain from the air, and even a streetview report of the street where the McCanns were staying.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/search-madeleine-mccann-n121186

 

[chlban]

We also have eye witnesses placing GM at the resort with the rest of his group. Smith also thought that whomever he saw was not a tourist but a local who looked uncomfortable carrying a child.

Unless you know them personally, how does one determine someone is a local and not a tourist?

I would also assume that anyone carrying a dead child, assuming that was Madeleine, would be a bit "uncomfortable". But maybe that' s just me.

 

[Elainera]

I don't think it is ever a farce to search for a child who is missing. Ever.


I wonder if they have that ground sonar that shows disturbances in the soil?

Radar was mentioned.

 

[chlban]

Just jumping off your post ...

Anyone burying a body there, whether it was one of the parents or a stranger, would have needed time to do so in a way that it wasn't spotted right away. If the soil is so hard and rocky they would have needed a shovel and it would have taken hours and could not have been done on the very evening/night she disappeared because people were running all over the place looking for Maddie.

Thoughts?

Agreed. I am sure the thought is that "whoever" it was, buried her there later.
Since I don't for one second believe she is buried there it's a moot point, IMO, but, for the sake of argument, your comments are on point IF she were.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't think it is ever a farce to search for a child who is missing. Ever.


I wonder if they have that ground sonar that shows disturbances in the soil?

I think all the surveying done yesterday was to set up grids for the ground-penetrating radar.

Headline on Huffington Post:

Madeleine McCann News: British Detectives Search Scrubland With Radar As Parents Prepare For 'Significant News'

British detectives are using ground-penetrating radar to search scrubland in the Portuguese resort where Madeleine McCann went missing from seven years ago.

Officers are thought to be looking for disturbed earth in the hilly area, which is being guarded day and night by armed local police with dogs.

Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry are not in Portugal but are being kept informed by Scotland Yard.

. . . Around six Portuguese police vans could be seen on top of a large mound in the middle of the scrubland, which overlooks the sea.

. . . Two local officers on horseback also patrolled the scene, while another pair strolled around the cordon edge with German shepherd dogs.

Two small blue tents around 100 yards inside appeared empty, with officers appearing to concentrate their efforts on the other side of the mound, away from the public's gaze.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Unless you know them personally, how does one determine someone is a local and not a tourist?

I would also assume that anyone carrying a dead child, assuming that was Madeleine, would be a bit "uncomfortable". But maybe that' s just me.

I think you can get a feeling when someone is a local and not. Just like when I am at the shore. I can tell who lives there and who is visiting. It is a feeling.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think you can get a feeling when someone is a local and not. Just like when I am at the shore. I can tell who lives there and who is visiting. It is a feeling.

IMO tourists tend to dress in brand new clothes bought for the purpose of vacationing and tend to have a beachy vibe. Tourists very often sport a sun burn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ZaZara]

I think you can get a feeling when someone is a local and not. Just like when I am at the shore. I can tell who lives there and who is visiting. It is a feeling.

I notice it in my local supermarket when the tourist season has started. Even when they but the same stuff as the locals. And yes, it is a feeling in the sense that you are aware of it before you have noticed the details like figure, clothes, movement, body odor (and speech of course).

 

[Donjeta]

Although that's the kind of feeling that if you're wrong and you don't talk to the person you might never know.

 

[Little Jedi]

Madeleine McCann search 'unprecedented operation' as British police descend on holiday complex for dig


"A military plane flew over the site and took detailed images which were emailed to the British team on the ground.

They compared the photographs with satellite imagery taken in 2007 to see if any soil has been moved over the past seven years.

A remote-controlled drone was later seen hovering above the scrubland - which is close to where a suspect was seen with a girl in his arms on the night Madeleine was abducted.

British police arrived in Praia da Luz at 9.30am and held a briefing with local detectives in a makeshift command centre just yards from the McCanns’ old apartment........

Both groups emerged at 11.15am and left in convoy with two rented UK Europcar vans which contained the ground-penetrating radar, spades and other items.

All the technical resources have been brought in from England.

“This includes archeologists, sniffer dogs and a ground-penetrating radar,



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-search-unprecedented-operation-3638457

 

[katydid23]

I just don't understand why that particular area is being searched. If I look at any of the most likely scenarios, i.e. : the parents, family friend, serial killer, random burglar,

I can't see that any of them would choose that area to bury a body or vital evidence. Too public and visible, too hard and rocky, too obvious, ....?

 

[Morag]

From today's Mirror:

The McCanns' Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, said the distraught couple "just want to know exactly what happened to their daughter".

She added: "It is my belief that police have some very good information to be carrying out ground searches.

"I believe there is data in the criminal file which has led to this operation because, if not, police would not be performing this very drastic task.

"Kate and Gerry have not been given any information that Madeleine is dead, and until this happens they have to believe she is still alive.

BBM

Or is she/they just trying to get out ahead of the story, for whatever reason?

 

[Little Jedi]

Not so 'New Technology' as article is 4 year old.

New Tech Sees Dead People

April 17, 2010


" A spooky sounding technology is finding old, unmarked graves........

For the first five years or so a decaying body inhibits plant growth.

"Initially it's a pretty toxic environment," for plants, said Kalacska,...........

Plants that grow over such recent graves don't reflect as much light in the visible and near infrared region, which scientists can detect using their cameras.

After five years, however, the plants growing over buried body suddenly reflect light instead of absorbing light. In fact, on-grave plants reflect more than twice the green light of off-grave plants.

For a human eye detecting such tiny changes would be "very hard," said Kalacska, but the difference is obvious to the hyperspectral camera."


http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tech-sees-dead-people/story?id=10389441

 

[Morag]

I just don't understand why that particular area is being searched. If I look at any of the most likely scenarios, i.e. : the parents, family friend, serial killer, random burglar,

I can't see that any of them would choose that area to bury a body or vital evidence. Too public and visible, too hard and rocky, too obvious, ....?

Murderers of whatever kind don't always do the logical or likely thing. And yet they are successful in hiding their crime or their victim. Just because a thing is carelessly done doesn't always mean it won't be effective. And the hard rocky ground of today may have been significantly softer that week 7 years ago- as I recall, it had been cold and rainy in Praia.

 

[Little Jedi]

From today's Mirror:

The McCanns' Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, said the distraught couple "just want to know exactly what happened to their daughter".

She added: "It is my belief that police have some very good information to be carrying out ground searches.

"I believe there is data in the criminal file which has led to this operation because, if not, police would not be performing this very drastic task.

"Kate and Gerry have not been given any information that Madeleine is dead, and until this happens they have to believe she is still alive.

BBM

Or is she/they just trying to get out ahead of the story, for whatever reason?

I think it may have something to do with the libel trial 'Ward of Court' proceedings !

Seems to have uncovered 'something' unexpected.

See post,

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Active Search for Evidence taking Place Around Portugese Resort

 

[carbuff]

Just jumping off your post ...

Anyone burying a body there, whether it was one of the parents or a stranger, would have needed time to do so in a way that it wasn't spotted right away. If the soil is so hard and rocky they would have needed a shovel and it would have taken hours and could not have been done on the very evening/night she disappeared because people were running all over the place looking for Maddie.

Thoughts?

Thoughts, somewhat random:

One of the articles mentioned that part of the area had formerly been a cabbage field. I don't know whether that means it was planted in cabbages at the time Madeleine disappeared, but it does imply that the soil there might be softer.

A disposal site could have been prepared ahead of time.

There could be gullies, drainage ditches, ravines, or the like where rocks and dirt could be pulled over an item without need for digging. That would be especially likely if it was clothing or something like that rather than a body.

The ground photos show that area as much more rugged than it seems on the map photos. It looks like there are quite a few areas where a person would not be seen from the surrounding streets. One article mentions the police search team operating in such an area.

 

[jay-jay]

Murderers of whatever kind don't always do the logical or likely thing. And yet they are successful in hiding their crime or their victim. Just because a thing is carelessly done doesn't always mean it won't be effective. And the hard rocky ground of today may have been significantly softer that week 7 years ago- as I recall, it had been cold and rainy in Praia.

But how would someone have carried this out in such a short space of time with so many police buzzing about in the area .. it takes quite a while to dig a hole deep enough to bury a body effectively (I would imagine, never done it myself!) and they wouldn't have been carrying a spade around with them to be able to have done it immediately .. I don't really understand why they are focussing on that particular area, either .. are they really only going by a witness account of someone having seen a man carrying a child in that direction or do they have some other evidence to suggest she may be buried there? (I don't think we'll be able to answer that question as very little information has been realised as yet).