Actress Natasha Richardson UPDATE has passed away after skiing accident

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Click on the link on this page called "The 5 hour scramble to save Natasha Richardson." It was an interesting story.

Indeed. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that anything more could have been done to save her, according to the transcripts medics did everything by the book. She may have been saved if she had been transferred to Montreal immediately after the accident but this kind of injury is insidious and no one could force her to seek treatment since she was convinced she would be okay. Most people in her situation would have done the same I suppose.

Some people have said she should have been airlifted to Montreal instead of ambulance transport but I read an article in the New York Times that said dispatching a medivac helicopter to her location from Montreal and back would have taken longer than an ambulance driving at high speed on the divided highway, which was not congested at the time. The hospital where she was taken was fully equipped to deal with neurological trauma but in the end nothing could be done other than life support.
 
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/09/docs-questioning-quebecs-urgent-care-resources/

hmmm...interesting that this has been the subject of debate since the 90s, and can't be blamed on Canada's healthcare system.

Some trauma doctors have argued for air transport here since the mid-1990s. They say the safest and fastest way to move anyone suffering a trauma injury such as Richardson’s is by helicopter. Helicopter transport is common practice in the United States and other areas of Canada. But in the Quebec region, very few places have access to air transport.

In an open letter to the citizens of Quebec sent to the Montreal Gazette, Dr. Michael Churchill Smith, director of professional services at the Montreal General Hospital, said incidents like Natasha Richardson’s should serve as a wake-up call to Quebec. “It is no longer morally acceptable for our citizens who, in the moment of their greatest needs, do not have access to a rapid transit system that gives them the best chance to not only survive, but to survive with a quality of life.”

Daniel LeFrancois, director of Quebec’s pre-hospital care, told the Gazette that cost is prohibitive when a one-hour flight costs $6,000. It’s a question of resources and priorities focusing on “the biggest gain for the biggest need,” he said.


$6,000 vs. the cost of a funeral and her loss of income. Plus the cost of replacing whatever she did for her family - did she already have a full time caregiver, cook, chauffer, maid, etc.? She may have, but most people don't.

I mean, if you want to put it in purely monetary terms. :rolleyes:
 
I'm pretty sure her family and friends would have paid way more then $6,000 to have her back. I don't know about house keeper etc, but most articles say they always took turns filming so one would be with the kids so I would imagine if there was a hosuekeeper/nanny they were more of extra hands then primary care givers.

So are those against a helicopter saying the value of human life is somewhere short of $6,000? :mad:
 
So are those against a helicopter saying the value of human life is somewhere short of $6,000? :mad:


Even here in the US helicopter transport is not always used nor is it available in many areas. There are some misconceptions regarding airlifting patients by helicopter. One is that it's a relatively routine operation when serious injuries are involved, but in fact it's not. The main two criterion for helicopter use, apart from aircraft availability, is ambulance inaccessibility to the victim's location (because of traffic jams, for example, or remoteness of the area) and/or distance from a treatment facility. Also, weather and air traffic near large airports are major factors, as a helicopter may not be given clearance to enter an international airport's controlled airspace if air traffic is too heavy and/or visibility is limited, causing delays.

Richardson's location was neither inaccessible nor far enough from Montreal to justify airlifting, unlike other major ski resorts in North America the one where she was is less than an hour from a major city by road. Moreover the seriousness of her injuries only became alarming once she was already on the ambulance, it would have taken a lot more time to call in a medivac helo to the ambulance's location than to drive said ambulance through to Montreal considering traffic at the time was light and road conditions (dry divided 6-lane highway) were excellent, allowing an ambulance to reach reasonably high speeds. The ambulance took her to the hospital that was nearest their point of entry on the island of Montreal that was equipped to deal with neurological trauma, in accordance with proper medic procedure which is to take the patient to closest facility equipped to deal with patient's condition using the most direct way there.

Another misconception appears to be the notion that there are plenty of helicopters in Canada therefore airlifting patients shouldn't be a problem. Indeed there are plenty of helos in Canada, they have proportionally more of them than we do and in fact Montreal is home to one of the largest helicopter manfacturing plant in the world (Bell-Textron) so there would be hundreds of helos in the Montreal area at any given time. But just like here in the US the majority of those helos are not equipped as medivacs. No more than one should transport critically injured patients in their minivan one cannot just throw a trauma victim in any helicopter, it has to be an air ambulance (medivac) and therefore there has to be one available in a timely fashion. Considering these facts and the context I think Richardson obtained proper care and that nothing more except taking her to Montreal immediately after the accident could have saved her, but that's asking for the impossible because no one could have guessed the seriousness of her injury at that time, and my guess is it would have been difficult to convince her to go to the city at that time because she did not think she needed medical care. It was a freak incident.
 
Karl, I take your point, but still find it interesting that this debate has been going on for 10 years. Since Quebec is singled out as one area in Canada where it was not even an option, and since doctors have been trying to convince those in power that even one medivac helicopter in Quebec might be a good idea, the media's use of NR's accident to revisit the topic can't be brushed aside as mere ratings chasing or morbid fascination.

ETA: This isn't just about NR. It's about the safety of the citizens of and visitors to Quebec. When was the last time you went on vacation and asked about medical facilities? I'll bet it crosses a lot more people's minds now.
 
Karl, I take your point, but still find it interesting that this debate has been going on for 10 years. Since Quebec is singled out as one area in Canada where it was not even an option, and since doctors have been trying to convince those in power that even one medivac helicopter in Quebec might be a good idea, the media's use of NR's accident to revisit the topic can't be brushed aside as mere ratings chasing or morbid fascination.

I know about the situation in Quebec because a close relative of mine was involved in a serious accident there (Quebec is next door to Maine) which evolved into a lawsuit, and because we have a similar situation regarding medivacs in Maine (also several other states have similar issues), that is we have a law that prevents corporations owned by physicians to operate ambulances, including air ambulances. There is a similar law banning physicians from operating HMO's. The reason given for this, at least here, was that in the past such companies tended to transport patients to hospitals where the financial interests of the ambulance operators would be best served, which was sometimes detrimental to said patients. Example: Hospital X is located 10 miles from accident site but ambulance company operators have vested interest in Hospital Y which is located 100 miles away, so they take the patient to Hospital Y instead, and bill the insurance company accordingly, invoking ambiguous reasons for not delivering the patient to the nearest ER.

There was an obvious conflict of interest and the state was pressured by insurance companies to dealt with it through legislation. Nowadays when medivac is really required in Maine the state police, Coast Guard or National Guard dispatches one of their helos, of which they have a fair number.

Even though Quebec has public Medicare (as do all Canadian provinces), it is the only province where private hospitals and clinics (usually owned by corporations consisting of physicians) are allowed following a Quebec Court of Appeals ruling (that's the highest court in the province), and unlike many other provinces the ambulance system in that province is privately operated so residents of the province (and visitors) must purchase private insurance to cover this service, or be billed for it. However there is a law that stipulates that no one can be denied the service and that if someone fails to pay, the provincial government will cover the cost and attempt to collect the patient later. Since the government is not allowed to seize assets of individuals who are under a given level of income, or are non-residents, a lot of them simply never bother to pay, incurring high costs at taxpayers expense.

Unlike Maine there is no law in Quebec that prevents doctors from operating ambulance companies but there are regulations as to where a patient can be transported: the nearest ER equipped to deal with the patient's condition and medics are not allowed to invoke ambiguous, weird conditions to avoid following the rules. Ambulance operators dislike this regulation and some have hired PR firms to spin media stories that make it appear as they are being forced to deliver patients to inadequate facilities but fail to mention that by "inadequate" they often mean less profitable for the operator because the distance is too short, since a large portion of an ambulance bill is based on mileage.

Enter the medivac. In Quebec only hospitals equipped with trauma units have helipads (and as far as I can tell, it's the same here) which makes sense since most patients transported by helicopter have life-threatening conditions of an unpredictable nature. Most ER's can stabilize patients with heart attacks and other life-threatening conditions due to illness but serious accident victims require accute trauma care, at least until their condition can be accurately assessed. Oddly enough most doctored media stories (no punt intended) omit to mention the helipads as this would amount to admit that there are medivacs in Quebec.

Indeed there are, but doctors can't own them and that's what bothers some of them (a small but vocal minority of businessmen-physicians, I must stress that as far as I know the huge majority of physicians in Quebec are more concerned about the wellbeing of patients than making profits off taxpayers) since it deprives them of what they perceive as a no-risk investment that is guranteed to generate profits because even if they transport some patients that turn out to be deadbeats they still collect the fee from the government. The risk for abuse is obvious.

Over a decade ago my father-in-law was involved in a serious -and ultimately fatal- traffic accident in Quebec where he travelled often (Quebec is next door to upstate New York where he lived). The accident happened near the city of Sherbrooke, and ambulance crews were at the scene within a few minutes. What happened next is still unclear and still in litigation, but apparently the ambulance driver contacted the ER of a hospital in Sherbrooke (a fairly large city with well-equipped hospitals including a university teaching hospital) and described the condition of his patient (my FIL) as serious but not immediately life-threatening, and gave an ETA to the ER of less than 10 minutes. He was cleared for the transport but about a mile down the road was contacted by a 911 dispatcher and told to stop and wait for a medivac helo, which he did but the medivac took 30 minutes to get to the scene during which time the medics on the ambulance contacted dispatch at least 3 times begging (I have heard the recording) to let them drive my FIL to the ER as his condition was deteriorating but were told to stay put for the medivac. When the helo arrived it loaded my FIL but then flew him to Quebec City 120 miles away claiming that a hospital there was better equipped to deal with the patient. Indeed they took him to a hospital which is reputed to have one of the best trauma centers in Quebec but it took so long to get him there that we believe (along with the doctors who treated him there) that the delay may have prevented him from recovering from his internal injuries. He was operated on 6 times over 17 days but refused a seventh surgery and passed away 20 days after being admitted. The death certificate issued by Quebec and filed with NY state stated that "persistent internal hemorrhage subsequent to trauma suffered in a vehicular collision" was the direct cause of death but "patient transport delays" was also listed as a factor.

Initially we had been concerned about the quality of care he was receiving and inquired about transfering him to Albany or NYC but were told by NY doctors that the hospital where he was was top-notch and that in any case he shouldn't be transported. When we visited him there we saw that the hospital -which was very large- and staff were indeed of the finest quality. My FIL was kept in ICU where I noticed that, to my untrained eye at least, were a lot of complex-looking computerized machines and monitors that looked brand new and certainly more sophisticated than what we have in our little local hospital here. My FIL was heavily sedated with narcotic painkillers we were told, but seemed relatively comfortable when awake. He said he felt very little pain, which was great comfort to my MIL.

Over a year after my FIL's death my mother-in-law, armed with the death certificate, hired a Quebec attorney to investigate the reasons why it took so long to get her husband to an ER when no less than 4 were located within a 10-mile radius of the accident site. She (the lawyer) made a few troubling discoveries. First the medivac was fully licensed but belonged to an air transport firm which is unusual as private medivacs are usually operated by ambulance corporations. Turns out the transport firm was owned by a man whose brother, a physician, is a known proponent of doctor-owned air ambulances. That's a bit suspicious but not illegal, however someone somewhere appears to have been able to convince 911 dispatchers to risk patients' lives in order for someone to make more profit off their medivac helo, and that's very likely not legal. However it took 9 years to get local law enforcement to look into the matter, with various agencies claiming it wasn't their jusrisdiction. Currently a provincial government investigator has been assigned part-time to assess if any wrongdoing took place in this case and several others. Obviously the case is still in litigation.

It is while reading court documents pertaining to the case and various other sources that I became aware of the issues at stake regarding medivac vs ambulance not only in Quebec but in various US states as well. Reading between the lines it appears that it's not so much the cost per se that's the core of the matter, but that this cost may be incurred through abusive practices.

Privately operated medivacs in Quebec obtain most of their revenue from government (Medicare) contracts regarding the transport of patients in remote areas. The goverment itself operates several state-of-the-art jet air ambulances which are modified Challenger bizjets (in the world of bizjets the intercontinental Challenger sits dang near the top). These aircraft are staffed with pilots (obviously) but also surgeons, anesthetists and OR nurses in case a patient requires surgery on-the-fly (literally), and also serve as mobile operating rooms serving remote areas, mainly in the north. In the much more densely populated south medivacs are mostly operated by police, Cost Guard and the military. Many of the police helos used for SAR are also equipped as medivacs. So when the media says there are no medivacs in Quebec they are distorting the truth.

ETA: This isn't just about NR. It's about the safety of the citizens of and visitors to Quebec. When was the last time you went on vacation and asked about medical facilities? I'll bet it crosses a lot more people's minds now.
Hopefully these people will get their info from sources other than mainstream media articles about celebrities. If CNN had bothered to fact-check their story instead of parroting local interest groups we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. :)

Unfortunately most of us can only tell a media story is way off the mark when they talk about something we happen to be familiar with. I remember reading in the English version of a French travel guide similar to Lonely Planet that shark attacks were frequent in Maine (they are not), that Jaws had been filmed here (Matha's Vineyard is not in Maine) and the picture they had published of a "typical beach in Maine") which featured palms and a blue lagoon was obviously not taken anywhere near Maine. Having little else to do on that particular day I emailed the magazine and suggested they correct these factual errors, but when the reply came (I'm surpised they bothered) I was told in true Parisian fashion that I was, basically, a butt who should mind his own business :D
 
"Moreover the seriousness of her injuries only became alarming once she was already on the ambulance"

I would have to disagree with this statement. From the various published articles, it became clear while whe was still in her hotel room that her injury was serious. The trained medics of the first ambulance - the one that came to the hotel - would have immediately recognized they were dealing with a closed head injury, based on the description of the accident and the condition of the patient. At THAT point, had a helicopter been called and had she been transported to the Montreal Hospital, there may have been a chance to save her life.

But the time spent transporting her to the local hospital, the time spent there, then putting her into another ambulance and transporting her to the Montreal Hospital allowed enough time for enough time for the brain bleed to cause herniation of the brain stem - which is what happens with that injury.

Of course, many people die from this type of injury whether they are in an area that has helicopter availability or not.

Edited to add: Karl, so very sorry about your FIL's death. I take it you have assisted in research and pursuing the case over the years. Good for you.
 
Karl, I am so sorry about your FIL. What a nightmare. Frankly I'm astonished that they transported him to another country for treatment, but I suppose this was before 9/11.

To me it sounds like one more reason I don't want the government involved in my healthcare decisions, but that's an argument for another day.

And, yes, I understand all about journalism and the chances of them getting their facts straight, but we have heard from multiple sources about the lack of a medivac helicopter. if one had been available, I think that would have been corrected by now - loudly - by the Quebec government and the hotel. Don't want to scare the tourists!

Again, while it might not have saved NR, and the situation with your FIL was bizarre, to say the least, there are definitely times where that heli is the difference between life and death. Skiing isn't exactly on my "to do" list right now after all the people I know who have been injured (I just don't have time for knee replacement:crazy:) but if I were planning a trip today I might look into that detail a little more closely. That's all I'm saying.
 
Karl, I am so sorry about your FIL. What a nightmare. Frankly I'm astonished that they transported him to another country for treatment, but I suppose this was before 9/11.

Sorry if this wasn't clear but they did not transport him to another country, Sherbrooke and Quebec City are both in Canada, both in Quebec in fact. My father-in-law lived in Utica, New York but owned a summer cottage in Quebec. He was on his way to the cottage when the accident occurred. A gust of wind (or perhaps a tornado) blew his RV off the highway during a violent thunderstorm at night and he hit a tree. Like most people his age he never bothered to buckle up, and was thrown through the windshield.

But to address the matter it does happen quite often that accident victims get transported across the US/Canada border for emergency treatment when the closest ER happens to be across the border, which is often the case in upstate New York and northern New England because in those areas it's the Canadian side of the border that is more densily populated and offers more services. HMO's and insurance companies have agreements with Canadian health agencies to deal with such cases. With regards to 9/11 and border security I reckon that even the most paranoid Homeland Security agent will admit that someone who is in a coma on the verge of death is probably not very likely to commit terrorist acts.

To me it sounds like one more reason I don't want the government involved in my healthcare decisions, but that's an argument for another day.
The government is involved whether we like it or not, since healthcare providers are heavily regulated both at the state and federal levels.

And, yes, I understand all about journalism and the chances of them getting their facts straight, but we have heard from multiple sources about the lack of a medivac helicopter.
As far as I can tell, all these secondary sources quote the same unique source which is a statement made by a advocacy group spokesperson to a Toronto newspaper which was then picked up by Canadian Press, where CNN and foreign media got it from. The fact is there are medivacs in Quebec, but none was used to transport Richardson alledgedly because distance and road conditions did not warrant it.

We seem to forget that medivacs are not taxicabs in the sense that a patient in need of emergency medical care is unlikely to decide by him/herself what mode of transportation should be used. In Richardson's case the first step was to assess her condition and contrary to what another poster seems to believe it is not routine for medics to be able to determine the nature of internal injuries unless they are physicians themselves. I know that in some jusrisdictions physicians are assigned to ambulance duties (New Orleans is one) but it's uncommon. They had to take Richardson to a regional hospital for evaluation. Once there the doctors evaluated her and tranferred her to the closest neurology trauma unit, which was in a hospital located in the northern suburbs of Montreal about 45 miles away. That's not a great enough distance to call in a medivac from its base (unlike ambulances medivacs have to be based somewhere near an airport where they can be serviced), wait for it to arrive, and send it to the neurology unit. Ambulance was just as fast since it was already there.

What I have seen here is people wondering why a medivac was not dispatched immediately after Richardson started to feel "unwell", I don't think it's reasonable to assume that any medic could have predicted the outcome of the situation since the immense majority of people who suffer such accidents are not seriously hurt. She was in a sense a victim of statistics. Medics assigned to those ambulances that are always parked at the ready in large ski resorts are probably very well trained in diagnosis and first-aid treatment of injuries common to such venues but when it comes to diagnosing asymptomatic brain traumas, that's a whole different ball game.

Again, while it might not have saved NR, and the situation with your FIL was bizarre, to say the least, there are definitely times where that heli is the difference between life and death.
It was indeed bizarre but I wouldn't want to make it seem like I am blaming the helicopter for my FIL's demise. My point was to say that there are medivacs in Quebec because my relative was transported in one. What you won't find in Quebec, as well as in many US states, are medivacs owned and operated by corporations controlled by physicians. This presicion was neglected by the original source of the story about the supposed lack of medivacs. If there were no medivacs in Quebec then why are all large hospitals there equipped with helipads? Golf course shuttles? :D

We (the family) understand that my FIL was flown to a hospital which had an extensive traumatology department and all the human and physical resources that come with such a facility, and we agree that his injuries required that he be treated in such a hospital, and that those aren't a dime a dozen and are restricted to larger cities. That said, what we believe should have been done in FIL's case was to allow the ambulance to take him to the ER which was 10 minutes away so that doctors there could stabilize him, and then have him transferred by medivac to Quebec City accompanied by a nurse or doctor if necessary. This is the usual procedure, nobody seems to know why it wasn't followed.

Skiing isn't exactly on my "to do" list right now after all the people I know who have been injured (I just don't have time for knee replacement:crazy:) but if I were planning a trip today I might look into that detail a little more closely. That's all I'm saying.
I don't think it will make much of a difference, few people usually bother to check what sort of vehicle will take them to hospital if they get hurt. If it were the case no one would come to Maine either ;)
 
I wonder why in this little girl's case it was bleeding at such a different rate??
I hope this story brings Natasha's Richardson's family some comfort.


I almost had heart failure on friday when one of the boys in the neighborhood and his friend bumped tires while riding at top speed down the larger hill that leads in to our neighborhood... he and his bike went flying butt over head ....and no helmet. He had a massive contusion and swelling on his forehead as well as abrasions and cuts all down his arms and legs despite the jeans and long sleeve shirt he was wearing. All I could think of was the tragedy of NR. Thankfully his family had him check by his physician .. i would have hauled *advertiser censored** to the ER myself .. He is ok but grounded for a while. He is one very luck kid
 
liam neeson's first public speaking engagement since death of his wife was this past wednesday (may 6):

The actor -- whose two sons, Micheal, 13, and Daniel, 12, sat closest to the podium -- appeared nervous at first when he got behind the podium. "Everybody assumes that actors are great public speakers," he said. "It’s terrifying. Forgive me for reading it."

But he made it through his speech, sharing with students one of the most valuable lessons he learned from school.

"I think it is a message that a university always gives its students in the end: It’s time to move on, get on with your life," he said. "I got on with mine, and I'm still getting on."



http://www.usmagazine.com/news/liam-neeson-art-helps-heal-the-heart-200975
 

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